] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 1 - 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:10:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 No, Bear, I had not imbibed. I rarely do. If I had, I wouldn't have been able to even rhyme the doggone doggerel. And yes, absolutely, it was doggerel. But I had fun playing with it for several minutes. Can you tell I'm allergic to beestings? Dave, let's agree to disagree. If you're comfortable with Baumgea, then use it. We'll know what you mean. All I said was I've always thought of this particular fantasyland as Nonestica. That's what I'm comfortable with, and it's what I'll use in my writing if I ever need to. You're certainly entitled to call it what you wish. I never meant to start a fuss. BTW, I haven't had trouble with the extra characters you seem to refer to. My server (yes, the $5.00/year one) doesn't seem to have any problems with the _Digest_, no matter how long it gets. Eric, I got BOW's _Oz Collector_ here on the South Coast quite a few weeks ago. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:22:16 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Since there is some wondering, the last Oz Collector I received from BOW was dated September 1996. It had THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW on the cover. There is no volume number. The toll free order and customer service number is 1-800-345-6665. Melody - Watson married several times. I don't think you can say Holmes sneered at love. I don't recall him ever putting Watson down for his interest in the "fairer" sex. Love involves the emotions. Holmes schooled himself to avoid clouding his keen analytical mind with emotions. His focus was solely on the intellect. I agree, anyone who tries to do that is going to get depressed. :) >Sherlock Holmes likely sneered at love because if everyone did love each other, he'd be out of business as a consulting detective! :-) :-) Oh, there might still be a lost dog or two..... I hope you aren't waiting for the above to happen. I think THE WOMAN outsmarted Holmes ONCE because his usually razor sharp mind was dulled by Victorian expectations of the intellect of women. I thought Doyle made this point beautifully. I am a little shocked to hear a women thinks Victorian women were kept at the ignoramus level. True in England they didn't get "public" education but that has never kept bright women from learning. In fact, considering the state of education today, ....... well, before I offend any teachers out there we should leave that for another venue. Which Oziana were your illustrations and the detective in Oz stories in please? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:17:43 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz David and Robin: From the hints that Robin dropped, I am assuming that Dorothy's mother vanished years ago, and that Henry assumed she was dead. Therefore, there was no "error" in the strict sense, just a lack of complete information. Bear: WElcome aboard! Glad that CompuServe is finally letting is MAC people on the web. It looks like they may be climbing out of the pit of ignorance they fell into when they closed the Tucson R&D office! :-) In case you don't know, I'm at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tylerjones Names and such: I believe that the name for the Ozian continent and the name for the overall area, or world, are probably different. IMHO, the word "OZ" would not appear in either of them. Even though Oz is the biggest, best and most important nation on the continent (especially from our point of view), it must be remembered that Oz itself does not play a major part in the international scene. They are isolated by the Deadly Desert and rarely impinge on the outer lands. OUr little bands of adventurers do, of course, but not Oz itself. Melody: The woman you are describing as a perfect match for Holmes sounds a lot like Glinda! :-) Dave: You may have asked the burning question. What did they call themselves BEFORE Baum wrote his first novel? The beat goes on... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 19:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-27-96 Just in reading over the Digests from the past few days, I came up with a question: It seems to me that if witches could not tolerate any water at all, they'd get awfully thirsty . . . (That is, I think they can even drink iced tea from a mix, so long as they don't do the mixing.) Just an idea, anyway. ====================================================================== Can anyone help this person and son? (Please reply personally to them) -- Dave ---- BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE ---- >Return-path: >Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 22:03:45 -0500 >From: Vance Morgan >Subject: Cowardly lion weapons >To: DaveH47@delphi.com >Reply-to: Morgan@pinn.net > >Dave, > >Can you help us on an important question for my son's paper due tomorrow >AM (its 10Pm EST here in VA)! What two weapons did the cowardly lion >take to kill the wicked witch? We can't find this info anywhere. >Help!! > >Thanks, > >Vance ---- END FORWARDED MESSAGE --- ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 3 - 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:52:09 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robin >"Buzz outta here or die!" I did detect a major antipathy. :) Tyler - After struggling with Compuserve for months, I finally had to have a friend come over and lead me through the forest. Sigh. I can't imagine why Compuserve has to make it so hard? Does anyone have any tips on the cheapest way to get unlimited INTERNET access? My five hours for $9.95 isn't going to go very far now. Gee! A 6k Digest. Everyone must be out there Christmas shopping. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 00:01:56 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is I've been away for Thanksgiving, so this message contains replies to Digests from last Wednesday to today (Monday). Chris: I've written an entry for the Magic Belt Contest, but I haven't gotten around to sending it yet. Robin: Are you going to call Shaggy's father Samuel Mann, as Eric and Karyl did in _Queen Ann_? It would provide continuity. Eric: I have received the most recent Oz Collector, and the most recent Oz Gazette and Observer, but I have still not received the most recent Baum Bugle. Robin: Some lands in the vicinity of Ev, such as Menankypoo and the Nome Kingdom, are sometimes mentioned as being parts of the Land of Ev, even though they are probably not ruled by King Evardo. Ev is clearly on the same continent as Oz, but the Deadly Desert makes Oz sort of like a separate island. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 00:32:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Witches and Water in Oz Jeremy, if memory serves me correctly, Singra (a wicked witch of the South) in _The Wicked Witch of Oz_ does drink--but not water; she drinks tea brewed from ink. On the other hand, in Laumer's _The Frogman of Oz_, Gingemma the Wicked Witch of the East drinks very strong tea; as Gayelette (who is not dried up at all unless she is projecting a false appearance like Zixi is) drinks this tea as well, I presume that this tea is brewed with water rather than ink. However, in objection to Laumer (Cosgrove's Singra could tolerate water due to magical intervention, though presumably her learned avoidance of it would not be canceled automatically) one might claim that ANY water was dangerous to Gingemma or Bastinda; living in such a dessicated state where carefully calibrated spells were the only thing standing between life and death, even very impure water (still a highly corrosive substance) could be dangerous to them; as such Gingemma drinking tea is arguably incredible. That humans need moisture to survive is irrelevant; as Gingemma and Bastinda were dried up to the point where they could not have survived without magic, one cannot assume that they depended on anything which humans normally need to survive. Maybe they didn't even eat or breathe. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 01:28:02 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 A package arrived today from Bangkok. THE WIZARD OF OZ in Thai! Joy joy joy! Looks like little wiggly worms crawling around the Denslow illustrations. Intriguing language. I wish I could read the afterword, it looks interesting. All I can make out are occasional words in English - including the address of the International Wizard of Oz Club! Yay! - Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:47:05 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 Robin: Hi! Thanks for the hints about the whereabouts of Dorothy's mother. I shall not pester for more 'till the hardback comes out. :-) :-) David Hulan: Good logic about people coming to Nonestica/Baumgea from wildly varying places. Good reason to stick to Oz-In-Another-Dimension. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 23:07:37 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Names: In my current mind-set, the name of the continent is Baumgea, while the world overall is called Nonestica. This may change at any time, of course. I remember that picture on _The Oz Collector_. Therefore, I must have receieved it and just forgotten about it. As a matter of fact, I do have a slight memory of going through it and saying "I have that. I have that. I have that, etc.", while checking to see if there were any new Oz items. Jeremy: The best answer so far seems to be that SOME witches (not necessarily all wicked ones, either) cannot tolerate PURE water. So go ahead and quaff iced tea, coffee, coca-cola and other adult beverages. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest Extra -- Cowardly lion weapons (fwd.) What kind of classes due they teach in Virginia schools these days? Isn't this the state that recently had a Republican candidate who ran on the morally corrupt message of the Wizard of Oz? (shiver) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:38:06 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 11-30-96 & 12-02-96 11/30: Robin: Oz and Ev are on the same continent, unless you're thinking of "continent" in the sense that Europe is a "continent", even though it has long land boundaries with Asia. Most geographers consider Eurasia to be a single continent. Usually two continents are considered separate only if their land connection is a narrow land bridge like those separating Eurasia from Africa or North from South America. Melody: Have you read THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE, by Laurie R. King? It matches Holmes with a woman much like the one you describe (although Holmes himself is a somewhat different character from the one in Watson's stories - a point made strongly by King, to explain why Holmes, in the late 1910s, might have an interest in a young woman). Holmes doesn't unequivocally fall in love in that book, but in the teaser for the sequel (which may or may not have been published yet - I haven't seen it) it appears that he may be going to. Or maybe not. It's an excellent book, in any case. Dave: I think the inhabitants of the places in the Americas that are known by the names of 15th-16th century explorers (including "America") probably just called their lands "here", or the equivalent in their language. I doubt if they even had the concept of a "continent". And it's highly likely that the inhabitants of the various countries on the Ozian continent also didn't have a name for the continent itself in pre-Baumian days, so "Baumgea" is perfectly reasonable. On the other hand, "Nonestis", after the example of "Atlantis", or "Nonestica" after the example of "Antarctica", are also quite reasonable. ("Imagination", on the other hand, I've never liked, despite the fact that it's the only name for the continent with FF justification.) I think Robin's idea that as long as we all know what we mean, we can use any name we want for the continent, is the best one. 12/2: Bear: There's definitely at least one OZ COLLECTOR you've missed, and I think two. Have you ordered from them recently? Watson married several times? I thought it was only twice. But I'm not a major Holmes fan. Tyler: If Dorothy's mother was alive at the time of EMERALD CITY, then referring to her "dead mother" was an error. Not a contradiction, but an error on someone's part: Uncle Henry's, Baum's, or Baum's informant's. True, Oz itself doesn't impinge on the rest of the continent very often. The only major time was when Ozma "invaded" the Nome Kingdom in OZMA. Captain Salt's voyage in CAPTAIN SALT doesn't impinge on the continent, but does on some of the islands of the Nonestic and on Ozamaland, since he was acting as an official representative of Oz. The other cases of action outside of Oz are all cases of individuals acting on their own behalf, and not as official representatives of Ozma and Oz (although Dorothy's intervention in RINKITINK and Shaggy's in SHAGGY MAN are done with Ozma's approval and assistance). Then again, there's little evidence that any of the other kingdoms on the continent impinge much on each other - the invasions of Noland by Ix and the R oly-Rogues in ZIXI, the imprisonment of the royal families of Ev and Pingaree by the Nome Kings, and the depredations of Regos and Coregos are about it. Jeremy: It could be that the digestive tracts of witches aren't subject to the same dissolution in water that happens when it contacts their skins. Or that the soap in the water Dorothy threw over the WWW was more important than the water itself. (We know Mombi doesn't want to be totally immersed, but she was functioning as a cook, and it's hard to imagine anyone being an effective cook and avoiding contact with water completely!) Special query: This is clearly a movie question, since the Cowardly Lion didn't carry weapons in the book. I hope that some of the more movie-oriented readers of the Digest were able to answer the question. (I could check my tape, of course, but it's probably too late by now to do the kid any good anyhow. I have a vague recollection of a pitchfork and a halberd, but nothing for sure.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:40:41 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 In the digest for 12/2 Richard Bauman mentions that he thinks "THE WOMAN outsmarted Holmes ONCE...." In "A Scandal in Bohemia" a woman--Irene Adler--does outsmart Holmes in part for precisely the reason Bauman gives: since she is a woman, Holmes underestimates her. Irene Adler is the woman he refers to as "_the_ woman." Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:59:05 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: OZ I have used my Thanksgiving Vacation to read Maguire's WICKED. I found it a quite entertaining book, and plan to re-read it when I have leisure (probably next millenium). Although he is somewhat heretical, the Wizard is the villain, Maguire does have a sound knowledge of Ozian history. An Ozophile can read the book as a Northener can read GONE WITH THE WIND (or worse THE CLANSMAN) and realize that different people can have different perspecitives on history. It is definitely not a children's book, concerning matters that are adult in every sense of the word (it is not pornographic, but it has more sex than Laumer's collected Ozian writings). I think it is better than BARNSTORMER and infinitely better than Tedrow's DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ. I can look forward to Demi Moore with more equinamity than I did to THE SCARLET LETTER. When Chris Dulabone says you don't want RADIOACTIVE TEDDY BEAR . . . he is trying to censor your purchases. If you read the original issues of THE OZ SQUAD and felt they were too mild, then you would like RTBFHDO. If you are not so perverse, then you might do well to skip it. The live action MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ that Dave mentions is probably the Minneapolis Children's Theatre version. It is quite faithful to the book and has marvelous costuming. I recommend it to Oz fans. If it is the the 1970's Barry Mahon version, avoid it like the plague--that gives amaturism a bad name. The justification for Nonestica is that Baum named the Nonestic Ocean. Nonestica can refer either to the large land mass in this ocean, or to all the islands in the ocean. If you think that is confusing consider the use of IONIA in discussing Ancient Greek Territories. Not to mention the various meanings of AMERICA. Oh, David and Eric: I found copies of both GLASS CAT and QUEEN ANNE in both the BORDERS store (CLARK/BROADWAY/DIVERSEY) and THE STARS OUR DESTINATION in Chicago last Saturday. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:00:39 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 11-27-96 Re: Sylvie and Bruno / Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (the titles of the two volumes of the original publication). It's an odd work, rather as if someone took: The Road to Oz, The Little Prince, Gulliver's Travels, the Gormenghast trilogy, the Dialogs of Plato The Old Curiosity Shop, and The General Theory of Relativity, and ran them through a blender. The sentiment can be trying (the sententiousness, on the other hand, is not really all that bad) and Bruno's baby talk can be very annoying indeed, but it is interesting to note that Galsworthy evidently felt quite justified in _assuming_ that his readers knew S&B when he wrote "Maid in Waiting". The book can be difficult to start; the anonymous narrator never actually gets around to explaining his confusing habit of sometimes being in two places at once (although Carroll himself finally gives a schema in the introduction to V2), and until you get _that_ into your head, it's a _leetle_ hard to follow the action. And there are lines that stick with you, like: "'You're sweetly picturesque in rags,'" or "Yet even pendulums are not a joy forever." Re: Holmes in love The love story in William Gillette's "Sherlock Holmes" is fairly muted, and left unresolved. And let us not forget the theory, accepted by many, that Holmes and Irene Adler had a brief affair in Montenegro (during Holmes's missing years) that resulted in the birth of none other than Nero Wolfe. Re: Troilus and Cressida I don't know of anyone who regards T&C as one of Shakespeare's great plays, except for, perhaps, doctrinaire pacifists with an axe to grind, but Charles Williams regarded it as a work critical to the understanding of Shakespeare, seeing in the double eavesdropping scene the perfect type of a moment when all understanding breaks, a moment to be seen again and again in the later plays until S. finally broke through to the other side and the pure poetry of the late romances. At any rate, there is really nothing in T&C that cannot be justified from some ancient or mediaeval source. The deep cynicism that permeates the play is surely Shakespeare's own, but there is no one place where you can say "Here Shakespeare has diverged from all his sources and deliberately created something to darken the play." Rather, he chose to select, whenever given a choice, nothing but darker possibilities. Re: Farmer It should be noted that "Barnstormer" is not at all unique among Farmer's works. Many of his books put a new, darker spin on someone else's creation, such as "The Other Log of Phileas Fogg", in which we learn that the famous 80-day journey was actually made by an interplanetary secret agent as part of a complex counterplot to foil the machinations of the wicked alien, Captain Nemo. By the way, "Riverworld" was originally one very long novel, so whatever else it may be, it's not a case of failing sequelitis. I never knew the exact story (I gather it's so well known in serious fandom that no-one feels the need to explicate), but I know that it was originally entitled "I Owe for the Flesh," and won some kind of contest in manuscript, but there was a scandal (not, it seems, reflecting on Farmer) and was not able to be published for years. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 13:32:56 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: nikko in oz Very likely others have already commented, but in case not -- double consonant after a vowel in English usually means tha the vowel is short, e.g., gripping compared to griping. Unless there's any special reason to think Nikko is pronounced otherwise, it's short i. (The name wasn't spoken in the movie.) Also, it was probably meant to be a nickname for Nicholas, formed in the same way as names like Jocko or Beppo, so would be a short i that way, too. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 18:43:43 -0500 From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest I've been lurking for a while and figure it's finally time to say something, although it's not about Oz per se. Today I finally bought a copy of Bounty Book's 1986 reprint of Baum's "Mother Goose in Prose" for $20 (with dust jacket in good condition). I'd been looking for a reading copy for quite some time. The only other time I saw it was at the outrageously expensive "Dickens" bookstore in Atlanta for $200, which I knew was too much for a reprint. How hard is it to come by this book with Maxfield Parrish's wonderful drawings? It's priceless to me b/c I've always wanted to read it, but I'm still curious -- which is closer to its true value, $20 or $200? --Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:13:08 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 Bear: "The occasional lost dog"? Holmes would be so humiliated.... :) "The Adventure of the Cat that Didi Not Meow in the Night", by Eric Shanower, illoed by me, Oziana '76,"The Adventure of the MIssing Belt" by Vincent Ward & Jay Delkin, Oziana 1978, "A Study in Orange" written & illoed by me,Oziana 1980, and "The Mystery of the Missing Ozma" by Jay Delkin, illoed by Eric Shanower (we come full circle here!) Oziana 1984. In "A Study in Orange," I cannot take ALL credit for the writing--Jay Delkin added a few of the Holmesy touches. Yes,a story submitted by Eric Shanower got turned into the first Great Detective story. He was young at the time, and Jay mentioned that his original story did not have much plot--it was Jay who rewrote it and put the Sherlock Holmes-type character in it. He told me not to make The Great Detective too obviously Holmes (copyright issues apparently. Did printing your Sherlock Holmes story bring a stern slap on the wrist from the Conan Doyle estate, Ruth?). Therefore, Holmes had a black top hat instead of his traditional deerstalker. Good point--suppress those poor little feelings completely, and they are apt to bite you back! :-) A couple years back, I bought a supposedly complete collection of Sherlock Holmes, and I recall reading in one story Watson saying that Holmes sneered at love. Love seemed to be the one emotion Holmes was REALLY down on. However, it was likely infatuation that Holmes truly held in scorn. I agree--projecting one's fantasies onto someone else, not seeing them as they truly are, does deserve scorn. In fact, idolizing and despising are two sides of the same coin--refusing to see the other person as real. That isn't real love, it is fantasizing. Fantasizing might be a better term for love-out-of-control than infatuation. Love guided by the intellect (really, a person should learn as much about themselves, and about people in general, as possible) can size up a potential mate's faults and virtues (provided the potential mate is honest) and decide whether the virtues are the kind one wants in a mate, and whether the faults can be lived with. On Victorian women--more women were denied higher education than now. However, I agree there were bright women who beat the odds. (Louisa May Alcott, George Sand, Emily Dickenson, etc.) However, back then, intelligence in women was frowned on. To be fair, intelligence in *anybody* who was supposed to be inferior was frowned on! Tyler Jones: Glinda may indeed fit my description of the perfect mate for Holmes--provided her magical powers didn't boggle his logical, analytical mind! :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:28:46 -0500 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Elves Yay! We have just received our copies of *A Silver Elf in Oz* at long last! I had expected 'em a while back. Now, finally, you can get the books you ordered a few weeks ago. Thanx to everyone who had already ordered! I sent out a whole bunch of books today, so I'm ready for lots more orders, too! The book, by the way, looks TERRIFIC! I loved the metallic silver ink on the cover. Adds a lot to our little Elf, it does. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:19:27 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Ozzy Digest I have a vague notion that this may have been mentioned in the Digest before, but . . . The catalog for J & R Computer World in Queen, NY, lists a CD called Yellow Brick Road, which is put out by a company by the name of Synergy. The blurb says: "Join the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman (sic), and the Lion for two excursions along the Yellow Brick Road." For Windows, Win95, or Mac. Stock "number" is SGI YELLOW-C. Cost is $29.95 plus shipping. Run, don't walk, to your phone and call 1-800-221-8180 anytime, if you have the $30 to spare. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:48:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gili Bar-Hillel: Browsing around in the theater collection there sounds like fun. Could you give more exact dates for 1904 and 1911 Boston runs of "Wizard"? I think I might like to try looking them up in the couple of Boston papers available on microfilm in the U MN library. Melody G. Keller: Thanks for the kind words on "Sherlock Holmes in Oz." Incidentally, if people feel curious about it, I don't think the Oz Club has it in print, but I reprinted it in a collection of material by sf fans on Sherlock Holmes and have copies of that. Also, it was published professionally in a collection called "The Game is Afoot," edited by Marvin Kaye (whose novel "The Marvellous Umbrella" is an enjoyable romp through several worlds, including a good deal of Holmesian reference and a little Ozzian, too). Robin Olderman: Your suggestion that Ev is such a large territory, considering that it contains sub-kingdoms, such as Menankypoo and Jinnicky's realm, that it might be considered a continent in itself -- it doesn't seem to me that the number of sub-kingdoms is so large as to suggest quite that large a territory. Maybe something on the order of a sub-continent (as India in terms of Asia is sometimes described)? The Martin/Haff map doesn't show it as all that large, but in terms of the "Tik-Tok" enpapers map, I suppose it would be possible that the portion of Eve not shown could jut out a good deal more than has generally been supposed. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:08:58 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Cowardly lion weapons - too late to help the person from outside the digest, but what WAS the lion holding in the movie? For some reason I'm picturing a huge can of Bugspray with a clever slogan, and a net? Ruth Berman - the 1904 programme I photocopied is from the week of 26th of Sept, 1904; a production at the Boston Theatre. The 1911 production was originally intended to be a Christmas show, but was apparantly extended because of its success. The only material I photocopied about that was a little blurb from the Castle Square Theatre Programme Magazine from Jan. 8th 1912, that says "The Wizard of Oz" is in its 4th week at the theatre. The main reason I photocopied this was not because of its Ozzy significance, but because of a paragraph about a different production, that sums out how different what people consider theatrical realism used to be: "...we shall merely mention one feature of it that promises to create a sensation entirely apart from the interest the play itself is bound to arouse. One entire act will ahve for its scene a Southern cotton mill in full operation. This does not mean that the mill will be imitated, or be merely a painted picture. On the stag will be seen the actual machinery operated just as it is operated in the mill itself.And what is more, it is absolutely essential to the working out of the action of the drama, the characters moving and speaking in its very midst. Certainly everybody who wants to see the very latest realism in the theatre will want to see "The Product of the Mill" at the Castle Square". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw an Elephant |\ _,,,---,,_ That practised on a fife: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' A letter from his wife. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'At length I realise,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'The bitterness of Life!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:50:07 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Aaron: It's quite likely that Singra grew to like herbal tea brewed with ink before she became immune to water, and just continued to drink it after the Nymph worked her magic. True, the WWW, and possibly the WWE, may have been more vulnerable to water than other witches (such as Mombi). David: I was also thinking that it would be difficult for Mombi to be a cook without working with water. I imagine that she took great pains not to let the water touch her, if she ever worked with it in its pure form. The Tin Woodman also interferes in a nation outside Oz, namely Stratovania in _Ozoplaning_. Of course, this was not by order of Ozma, and Stratovania is not part of the Ozian continent. As for other countries intefering in each other's affairs, there are not all that many cited, but I imagine that there have been struggles and wars between Baumgean nations. You did not mention King Scowleyow's invasion of Mo, Skamperoo's invasion of Oz itself, and possibly a few others. Also, in "The Witchcraft of Mary-Marie," Mary-Marie, who lives in the Ribdil-Aurissau area (shown as part of Baumgea/Imagination on Haff and Martin's map), says that her father was sent off by the evil King to fight in the "foreign wars." It is quite true that the people of the Continent of Imagination might not have called the continent anything before the name of Baumgea was suggested. Also, it is unlikely that all of the inhabitants of the continent call it by the same name. Stephen: I would prefer "Nonestica" as a term used to describe all of the fantasy lands in the Oz area, rather than just the Ozian continent. I sometimes use the term "fairyland" to refer to all of the fantasy lands, but that is just a description, not a proper name. Warren: I won a copy of "Yellow Brick Road" at the Munchkin Convention. I have not tried it yet, and I do not know if it would work on the computer that I am currently using. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 08:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 > From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-02-96 > > Robin: Are you going to call Shaggy's father Samuel Mann, as Eric and > Karyl did in _Queen Ann_? It would provide continuity. Yeah, like Karyl and I even CARE about continuity, or "Queen Ann"'s place in it... > Eric: I have received the most recent Oz Collector, and the most > recent Oz Gazette and Observer, but I have still not received the > most recent Baum Bugle. The Spring one? Write to the Kalamazoo address and complain. The Autumn one? Nobody's gotten that one yet, and I'll be surprised if anyone does in 1996... BTW, everyone, I got my replacement "Oz Collector," and a large check is on its way to New York now. --Eric "Not many new Oz books on that order, though..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:37:29 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest rr0189 (who'm I talking to?): Oh, I think most critics regard "Troilus and Cressida" as a "great" play, although not one of "Shakespeare's great" plays. Plays that are mediocre in terms of Shakespeare's standard are by general standards still great plays. (For instance, when I was an undergraduate English major, courses in Shakespeare were required, and "T&C" was included in the second beginning Shakespeare course; Marlowe's "Dr. Faustus" was included in the sophomore survey course, and no other play by any other Elizabethan -- not even Jonson or Webster -- was required at the undergraduate level.) You're right that Shakespeare had justification for portraying the characters darkly in terms of the way other writers after Chaucer had treated them, but he darkens them a good deal more than anyone else had done. Even Robert Henryson's "Testament of Cressyd," although a good deal darker than Chaucer, is much more sympathetic to the characters than Shakespeare. Going back to the context of whether a good work of art can grow out of contempt for a source work, though, if you don't think "T&C" qualifies as an example, I'd point to Mark Twain's slamming of Arthurian tradition in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" for an example of a great book that goes in for heavy dissing. Melody Grandy: The Doyle estate can't stop publication of Doyle imitations anymore. Most of the stories are in the public domain and have been for some time. Even back when my "SH in Oz" story appeared in "Oziana" #1, the earlier Holmes stories had already gone into public domain in the US. In Britain and the Commonwealth (including Canada), they were still under copyright, and Jay Delkin as a Canadian editor was perhaps thinking in terms of potential Canadian problems when he asked you to make your Great Detective not too obviously Holmes. // The story you are remembering in which Watson says Holmes "never spoke of the softer passions save with a gibe or a sneer" is "Scandal in Bohemia." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 19:21:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Melody: I agree; putting Oz in another dimension is the easiest way to resolve all our location difficulties. However, if we do that, that's all the more reason for the continent to be called Nonestica, as it doesn't exist--not in our dimension, at any rate. How, though, do we explain the fact that so many people arrived there from here? We still need to work on that. Tyler: Actually, I had not thought about it that way (re the world Nonestica and continent Baumega), but that makes sense--regardless of my qualms at calling an entire continent after one author. By the way, do you mean to imply that I am a wicked witch? The fact that I don't drive is NOT the reason I go around by broomstick. David: In reading your message to Robin, I begasn to wonder if perhaps the entire map of Nonestica or whatever might need to be redrawn, perhaps accommodating those who want it called something else by drawing the continent of Nonestica with a land bridge to Baumega. I still believe Oz belongs on Nonestica, though (strangely enough). Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:09:38 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twodays Oz Growls Scott - Please elaborate, message not understood. David - I have The Beekeeper's Apprentice. I guess I better move it up in the pile and see if it will give Melody an argument. And yes, I ordered from the Oz Collector with THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW on the cover. I'll call them and check. Thanks. This may not be of Ozzy interest, but Oh Well: Watson's marriages: The course of Watson's married life is complex. While he plainly met Mary Morstan no earlier than July 1888, there is the clear implication of his being married in September 1887 and the explicit statement that he was married in March 1888, suggesting that Mary was his second wife. Mary died between 1891 and 1894. Another marriage is suggested for 1903 and supported by Watson's once again living elsewhere. So three marriages is the best bet, not counting events. Ah, another Richard who is a Holmes fan. Yes, Holmes even admitted to having been beaten by a woman (who we know is Irene Adler) in THE FIVE ORANGE PIPS. The actual event took place in A SCANDAL IN BOHEMIA. Recently Carole Nelson Douglas has written a series of books featuring Irene. Mr. rri0189@ibm.net >And let us not forget the theory, accepted by many, that Holmes and Irene Adler had a brief affair in Montenegro (during Holmes's missing years) that resulted in the birth of none other than Nero Wolfe. May I say Sir, Balderdash! A theory accepted only by Saracens. Warren - Did you buy the CD, Yellow Brick Road? If so could you give us a review? Your sure it isn't by Elton John? :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:32:53 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Bear: Any raw internet access provider would be good. Primenet comes to mind. There are probably local ones in your area that are sufficient. Like the proverbial captain, I intend to stick with CompuServe until it is dead and buried (which may be sooner than we think...) Aaron: Your theory is close to Farmer's, in that the two are very old and dried up, kept alive only by magical energy. It sounds reasonable. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:14:48 -0800 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 I hoped that if we collectively ignored this bad use of a good title, it would go away, but there are still poor retailers trying to unload this turkey. After MacMall or somesuch catalog company took my order for $60.00 last February and decided they didn't want to deal with anymore disgruntled returns, they withdrew the product and never charged me on the plastic. Since that time, a lone copy had been mouldering on valuable shelf space with no takers until about 3 weeks ago at the Virgin Megastore in downtown SF ($29.95). That money is better spent supporting the work of any of the far greater talents that contribute to this Digest. At least my purchase was tax deductible. Ok, if Tedrow and Roger Baum not only made the game, but did the art and programming... You really don't want me to describe it. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com Warren H Baldwin wrote: > > The catalog for J & R Computer World in Queen, NY, lists a CD called > Yellow Brick Road, which is put out by a company by the name of Synergy. > The blurb says: "Join the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman (sic), and the Lion > for two excursions along the Yellow Brick Road." For Windows, Win95, or > Mac. Stock "number" is SGI YELLOW-C. Cost is $29.95 plus shipping. Run, > don't walk, to your phone and call 1-800-221-8180 anytime, if you have > the $30 to spare. > ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 01:13:43 -0500 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Craig: In answer to your question about the value of the Bounty "Mother Goose in Prose", the first edition (thus) in dj has been bringing $15 to $20 at IWOC auctions. I have been selling it for $15 for some time, and should probably go up a little. So the $20 you paid is fair. The book is rather easy to find, and I have usually paid $8 t0 $11 after my dealer discount. I have at least eight copies on hand in case anyone needs a copy. Ruth: I know that The Wizard of Oz with Montgomery and Stone was playing at the Boston Theater on its (the theater's) 50th Anniversary gala, Sept. 12, 1904. I don't know how long it ran with the original cast. Also, I don't know when it ran in 1911, or with what cast then. Micheal Hearn would probably know. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 06:19:03 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest Cowardly Lion extra edition responses *please post* For those who are interested-- I did respond to Mr Morgan's request for help, and enquired as to what kind of school project needed that sort of information. He answered that his son's science teacher (!) strongly felt that children should be constantly involved in some sort of research project. This teacher had compiled a list of esoteric subjects for his students to research. This year's topic happened to be the Cowardly Lion. By the way, my memory (which may not be accurate) says that the Cowardly Lion was carrying a butterfly net and a Flit gun. This would be appropriate, since (in the original screenplay) they were going up against the Jitterbug. Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 05:16:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Bear: AOL is offering a $19.95/mo. unlimited access deal. Nathan:Shaggy's father: I'm afraid Samuel Mann isn't the name I chose. Ev: Sheesh! *I* dunno how big it is. And I really don't know if it's a continent or not. It's certainly not unusual for the FF to be contradictory, and it's certainly frustrating, isn't it. :) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 05:18:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 _Mother Goose in Prose_ in the Bounty reprint should certainly run closer to $20 than to $200. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 12:21:41 PM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy Steadman wrote: >I agree; putting Oz in another dimension is the easiest way to >resolve all our location difficulties. However, if we do that, >that's all the more reason for the continent to be called Nonestica, >as it doesn't exist--not in our dimension, at any rate. How, though, >do we explain the fact that so many people arrived there from here? >We still need to work on that. MOPPeT is that a wormhole (or more than one) connect(s) the Ozzy universe with ours...This wormhole has manifested itself in various forms such a cyclone, a whirlpool, or just a quiet, invisible bridge. In my unpublished Sci-Fi novel, my herione makes a visit to Oz after a wrong turn in a wormhole expressway lands her spacecraft and its crew in another universe. ( Okay, I'm ready for you to flame me for plugging another book of mine on the Digest. :) ) ANNIVERSARY: I forget to mention it, but yesterday (12/4) was the First Anniversary of the Ozzy Digest! Yay! :) :) :) OZZY IS NOT OZZY!: Today I received the biggest mistaken subscription request for the Digest yet, although it is one I had half-forseen...Someone wrote asking to subscribe to the Ozzy Digest, saying how glad he was that there was finally a digest devoted to Ozzy Osborne! I have to admit that I have always feared that a connection would be made with Ozzy and "Ozzy", a connection I for one don't want... Billina: Ozma! Ozma! Please send away that strange man with the long hair -- He tried to bite the head off of one of my chicks! Scarecrow: How about calling it the "Ozzie (sic) Digest"? Then at worst we'd be mistaken for a fan club for the Nelsons... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:46:32 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-04-96 Bear: I hear of lots of cheap ways to get Internet access - cheapest I've heard of is Flashnet at $99.95/year for unlimited access, which comes to only $8.33/month. OTOH, I can't vouch for how easy it is to use or how reliable access is. AOL's new pricing isn't bad; if you pay for two years in advance you get unlimited access to both the Internet and AOL's in-house features (including up to five 2 Mb Web sites for yourself) for $14.95/month. That's what I use. Except for that one crash everyone knows about earlier this year, I've never had any problem more serious than the occasional E-mail getting lost, and the new software seems to preclude that. (That is, to eliminate the mechanism by which it's happened in the past.) (And one day soon I'll have my own Web site or sites up, I expect. I'll let the Digest know when I do, since one of them will have Oz references.) Nathan: Is that the Spring '96 Bugle you still don't have? It could be that Menankypoo is to Ev as, say, Oogaboo is to Oz - nominally under the control of the central ruler, but in practice completely autonomous. Rich: Carole Nelson Douglas has written a rather fun, though historically inaccurate, series of mysteries featuring Irene Adler; Holmes is important in the first one and he and Watson appear in most if not all of the rest, though they're usually peripheral. Steve: Sounds as if your reaction to WICKED was much like my own. (Although I liked BARNSTORMER better than WICKED; it's not as good a novel, but it's more fun, which is the main thing I read for.) Glad to hear that GLASS CAT is still in stock at Stars Our Destination; that means they must have re-ordered at least once, since their original stock was only two copies and I know who bought both of those. Incidentally, I just heard from Peter Glassman that they're reprinting GC early next year, which pleases me no end. (And the BUGLE with a review of it hasn't even appeared yet - though since I haven't seen the review, I don't know whether it's likely to enhance or depress sales.) rri (I think John Kennedy): Is the Charles Williams who regarded TROILUS AND CRESSIDA as essential to understanding Shakespeare the CW who was a friend of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, or another one I haven't heard of? Farmer loved/loves taking off from other authors' work; he did Tarzan and Doc Savage as well as Fogg and Oz, at least, and I think a few others. (And of course, Shartz in BARNSTORMER is modeled on Doc S.) Ruth: I suspect the only reason some people in Chicago think "Nikko" might be pronounced "Neeko" is that one of the major hotels downtown is a Japanese-owned one called the Nikko, pronounced "Neeko". But the "Nikko" spelling of a Japanese word is arbitrary, since Japanese isn't written with the Roman alphabet in Japan. And although I don't know Japanese myself, I've been told that all Japanese syllables end in open vowels or "n". (There are Nikko hotels elsewhere as well, but the person asking the question said he was from Chicago.) I doubt if whoever wrote the script for the 1939 movie was thinking of Japanese when he spelled "Nikko". Craig: One of the dealers in the group could give you a more definitive answer, but I'd guess that $20 is a good deal closer to the going price for the Bounty edition of MGIP than $200; I have a copy in about the same condition as yours that I bought used for $8.50 ten or twelve years ago. (Though mine is apparently a 1974 edition, if my interpretation of the LoC catalog number is correct; if yours is 1986 then I suppose they must have reprinted it at least twice - which would probably mean it's even less likely to be worth anything like $200.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:12:23 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Ozzy Digesters: Saw a new book today titled: Munchkins of Oz by Stephen Cox. This is a follow-up to one he published a few years back titled: The Munchkins Remember. It has a lot more really neat photographs, some in full color! For those interested in buying it is published by Cumberland House and the ISBN is 1888952040. It's paperback and cost $18.95. I also received a new Smithsonian Catalogue in the mail today and they have some really nice Oz stuff for sale, including a new set of Oz ornaments. Last, but not least, just in time for Christmas, but you'll have to hurry, I added a new page to my website called "Wizard of Oz Memorabilia Shopper's Directory". It contains names, addresses, and Oz collectibles for sale from the various mail order catalogs that I receive. This is a work in progress so it'll be updated quite often. If anyone has any additional ones, or notes any corrections, please email me via my website. I now have a shorter URL: http://www.geocities.com/~ozfan/ Jim. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:40:46 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Didn't get my response in to the 12/4 Digest until too late to make the 12/5, so I guess everyone will have to put up with two posts from me. (Get ready to download this one...) Nathan: I suppose Mombi could have used long rubber gloves, if such things were available in Oz in 1925 or so. (Surely there must have been a rubber-glove tree somewhere in Kimbaloo...) Oh, there are quite a few cases of Ozites interfering with kingdoms outside Oz - it's just that most of them were unofficial, including the Tin Woodman's in Stratovania. There are also quite a few cases of kingdoms outside Oz invading Oz - though whether Skamperoo's qualifies as an "invasion", since only he and Chalk actually came to Oz, is questionable. If that counts, then I think you'd have to also include several of Ruggedo's attempts as well - at least the ones in MAGIC, GNOME KING, and PIRATES. But there were full-blown invasions of Oz from outside in EMERALD CITY, OZOPLANING, PIRATES, WONDER CITY, and MAGICAL MIMICS, though only three of those were from places on the continent. Eric: You and Karyl may not care about continuity between QUEEN ANN and other Oz books, but I hope you don't object to other writers observing consistency with it if they want to. Ruth: DON QUIXOTE is another "Great Book" that is founded on dissing a whole school of literature. Jeremy: I think that there are certain characters - the Wizard, Dorothy, Button-Bright, Trot, Peter, Speedy, and Bucky for sure; probably Betsy (though maybe Hank), probably Jam (though possibly Percy) - who are charged with a magic potential and who therefore, at moments of stress, can easily slip from our world to the parallel world in which Oz is located. Those who are with them at the time make the same slip. (The remaining characters who make the transition - Shaggy's brother, Notta, Bob Up, Benny, Jenny Jump, Twink and Tom, Robin and Merry - all seem to have done it under the direct influence of magic, which we know works between worlds because Ozma can transport Dorothy and others back and forth with the Magic Belt.) This, of course, is MOPPeT. But I prefer it to a "wormhole" theory because the latter would require certain individuals (the Wizard, Dorothy, and Speedy at least) to hit a wormhole more than once, when they must be extremely rare or we'd have a lot more missing persons in this world and there'd be a lot more mortals in the Oz world than would be consistent with the FF. Easier, in my view, for the ability to transition to apply to the person rather than space. I wasn't arguing for a land bridge between the continents of Nonestica and Baumgea; I don't personally think any such thing exists, or that there are two separate continents. I was arguing that I didn't think Ev and Oz were on separate continents, but on the same continent whatever one chooses to call it. The map certainly indicates that. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 18:56:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Nathan: Wouldn't it be nice if Oz could "meddle" in all the nations of the world--it'd sure resolve a whole lotta problems! Or would it? Perhaps it would just cause more, as the non-magic world would come into contact with the "Real World". But it's more fun the first way. Dave: Congrats on Ozzy Di's 1st. Also, If we can get to Oz through a wormhole, not a bad theory at all, is it a moving wormhole (the Earth end being in different places at different times)? That would solve a lot of inconsistencies--and also explain how someone can jump in a pool and end up in the briny Nonestic (sorry, another plug for EMERALD RING; I think I'm getting the hang of this now). ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 21:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Synchronicity Strikes - I called BOW today and was told there was no other Oz Collector since the "Yew" one. They did say there was "a different version of a catalog that went out to a different group, but it was not for Ozzies?" I also learned my order had been shipped on Nov 28th. An hour later there was a knock at the door and there it was. It contained a catalog titled "The Oz Collector" indicating it was the "Introductory Issue," and subtitled "Everything Oz." It apparently lists everything they have in stock that is Ozzy. If you want one their number is 1-800-345-6665. Dave - I think it's great for you to plug your books. Just so we don't get King, Koontz or Oates on the Digest. :) Well, I made my first foray into the WWW and found Tylers page. I learned a lot about Tyler and had a hard time escaping. Next Eric. I found something callet FLASHNET. For unlimited access they charge $99 per year with a one-time $30 setup fee. That's the best I have found yet. If interested call 1-800-FLASH20. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 20:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 Dave, Talked with Bill Stillman last night. He believes the printer will complete the black and white portion of The Baum Bugle this week. I didn't ask about the completion of the color parts, but I was pleased to know the work is going forward. Eric Gjovaag's advice for those members who are current but have not yet received the Spring 1996 Bugle was good. Please write to Barb Foster The International Wizard of Oz Club P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, Michigan 49004-0266 to let her know. Barb spent several weeks in late September/Early October reconciling four separate mailing lists that had developed over the period beginning in September 1995 when Fred Meyer became ill. She discovered perhaps 300 current memberships that had not posted forward. We believe we have re-captured the addresses for all our current members, but this happened just after the Spring Bugle was sent out in October. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 23:08:21 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Nathan: Eric's reply to you shows that there is quite a difference of opinion regarding continuity on the digest. For those of you who are new to the digest, this subject was discussed quite a bit back in February and March. Some of this got a bit heated, and I dubbed it the "HACC" wars. We have grown since then, and I can discuss it tih no fear of fanning the flames. The short answer is that some people think continuity and consistency between Oz books is a good thing and some do not. I am a strong beleiver in consistency, since I think it makes the Oz books work better together and provides a sense of continuity, even though this may not have been intended. It is a worthy goal, although there seems to be no strong desire for it, and most Oz books are very enjoyable on their own terms, although I yearn for what could have been (and still can be). Jeremy: I hope you aren't a wicked witch, and have every cause to hope that you are a good one :-). I don't see a need to drastically redraw the map of the known Ozzy planet. As far as I can tell, nobody is arguing for the existence of two continents called Baumgea AND Nonestica. Tarara is there, and Antozia, but those are far away from the continent of which Oz forms the center. David and Jeremy: My extension to Dave's MOPPeT is that Oz is in a Universe that is much smaller than our own. This is some indirect evidence for this in the FF, as David Hulan will confirm. Anyway, I postulate that we live in a three- dimensional Universe that forms the outer surface of a four dimensional continuum. The Ozzy Universe is inside that continuum. Therefore, the Ozzy Universe is intimately linked with our own, and as such, there may be many wormholes between the two Universes. This works well with my other theory about the endless strange kingdoms being even SMALLER Universes that are also inside our continuum, floating around, so to speak. It sounds complicated, but it solves one of the consistency problems. Namely, how can the Oz people run into different kingdoms so often when they travel in roughly the same places every time? Espcially when they travel known routes and get lost so often? Happy Anniversary to the Ozzy Digest! The total byte count is 7,688,906. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 03:06:59 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 I knew I didn't want to know how much the Bounty _Mother Goose in Prose_ should go for. I think that is the only book I have ever regretted buying for my collection. I've always have a gut feeling it was overpriced, and now I know I was right. Granted, it was my mother who payed for it, but she payed four times more than it was worth. Oh well, I suppose that you win some and you lose some. I'm not likely to make a mistake like that again. Ken - you haven't always been pinhead@ozcot, have you? I only now noticed that. I love it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy Chanukah! S S U U U U U I U U U U \ \ \ \ I / / / / Gili Bar-Hillel \ \ \ \ I / / / / abhillel@fas.harvard.edu \ \ \ \W/ / / / gili@scso.com L__L__L__W__J__J__J W W W === EEEEE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 09:10:12 AM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE THOUGHTS ON WORMHOLES: Jeremy has a good idea about moving wormholes, and I do consider this a possibility. I also think Tyler may be right that there are more than one -- After all, Dorothy is in Kansas when she is "blown" to Oz, whereas Elvera, the heroine of my sci-fi novel, is on the other side of the Galaxy. The Ozzy Universe may indeed be smaller than ours -- in fact, just before Elvera reaches Oz, she finds herself in a VERY small (no larger than an asteroid) universe whose only contents is a single small planet covered with tree-like vegetation, and a bunch of wormholes to elsewhere...Elvera indentifies THIS place as C.S. Lewis' "Wood Between the Worlds"... I imagine Oz though to be in a universe roughly the same as ours, with differences, since it is a "parallel" universe...For instance, Earth's Ozzy parallel may have more than one moon, including Anuther "Planet" and the moon (much nearer to Earth than Luna) visited by Mr. Tinker. The rest of the Solar System however, at least as I present it in _Locasta_, is pretty much like ours, and may even be linked to ours, as I use magical doings by the villians in Oz to explain how at the time the story takes place (1992 or '93) Neptune lost its "Great Dark Spot" and Saturn suddenly sported a "Great White Spot"... Another important trait of the Ozzy universe as I see it is that while we don't know for sure yet whether our universe is "open" or "closed", the Ozzy universe is definitely open (no "big crunch" in Oz's future), and the Alfven-Lerner Plasma Cosmological alternative to the Big Bang theory definitely applies to Oz's universe (no "heat death" in Oz's future either), so Oz really is guaranteed to endure forever! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 7 - 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 13:41:10 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 David: I think we have it--your suggestion, that Dorothy, the Wiz, et al have some sort of "charge" whereby they tend to slip into Oz at moments of stress, explains how they come to Oz as much as they do over the course of the books and also leaves room for others do so the same (as they are surely not the only ones with similar polarity). Re your correction on my interpretation of your argument concerning Nonestica / Baumega / Imagination: How do we know the map is accurate? Tyler: Did you read me say I was a wicked witch? If so, that must have been my colleague Kiex's influence trying to spoil my reputation (ask Chris Dulabone). While I agree that perhaps I'm the only one suggesting that redrawing the Oz world MIGHT be necessary, I don't think we would hurt any feelings if we did (the map being only a representation the way we envision it, anyway). After all, what's to say the map's right now? Gili B-H: Thank you! Attending an almost exclusively Christian college (after living in an almost if not completely exclusively Christian town), it's nice to hear words like yours (I'm Jewish). Dave: For another "Wood between world"-type place, look to the sequel to EMERALD RING, to be published as soon as Chris gathers the necessary money (such are the disadvantages of living in the Real World). Also, I thought we were pretty sure there IS going to be a "big crunch" for our universe, although I'm no science major. I do prefer, if so, to believe you that there will be no such occurence for Oz. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 15:10 -0600 (CST) From: gbirrell@post.cis.smu.edu (Gordon Birrell) Subject: Ozzy Digest Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection with molasses. Also from _Scarecrow_ (and I think this comes up elsewhere, too, maybe in _Tik-Tok_): the narrator (Baum?) states unequivocally that Dorothy introduced Ozma to both the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger. But surely this cannot be, since Ozma is speeding across the Deadly Desert in a chariot drawn by both the lion and the tiger when Dorothy sees her for the first time (in _Ozma of Oz_). Continuity experts, help me out! Jim: The Wizard of Oz Memorabilia Shopper's Directory at your web site looks great. A lot of people should find this chart very useful. Kenneth: I also thought that the Cowardly Lion's Flit gun and butterfly net might have been part of the original conception involving the Jitterbug sequence. But how was the lion supposed to have known in advance that the WWW was going to send out an evil insect to attack them? Maybe he thought the Witch herself could be captured with these "weapons"--the only time he had ever seen her before, she was a remote figure up in the air doing her sky-writing routine and from that distance actually looked a lot like a big black insect. Has anyone else noticed, incidentally, the way the Witch duplicates commercial flight patterns by circling her castle once before she finally heads off for the Emerald City? Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:34:28 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 David: Yes, it is the Spring Bugle that I did not receive. I shall probably write to the Club. Your view on Menankypoo makes sense. Personally, I think that the Red Jinn's Dominions are also under Evardo's rule. My own theory of Ev history states that Eastern Ev was once ruled by Evaltho, the cousin of the current King of Ev. Evaltho attempted to conquer the entire land of Ev, but he was stopped, with Jinnicky being a major player in the thwarting of Evaltho's plans. The Red Jinn was then given reign over Eastern Ev. Maybe Mombi did wear rubber gloves when working with water. Tyler: A smaller Universe than ours? Well, since many people think that our Universe is infinite, it would not be too difficult to find something smaller. I prefer there to be continuity between the different works in the Oz series. I realize that Baum often contradicted himself, and that authors are not always familiar with all of what was written before their own stories, but I think that an author should provide continuity whenever he or she can. David and Jeremy: I really do not know about Oz being located in another Universe. I realize that there is not really enough space on Earth for three extra continents, so there may be some merit in the theory that Oz is in another dimension, but not on entirely different planet in a different Solar System. There seems to be too much proof that it is on our Earth. I cannot think of too many examples at the moment, but, in _Runaway_, Fanny sends weather to the Andes and the South Pacific. Anuther Planet is probably somewhere in or near the Milky Way Galaxy, but I am not entirely sure where. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:44:20 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 Yes, the Charles Williams I mentioned was the Inkling. Specifically, I was referring to his "The English Poetic Mind". // John W Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 23:01:51 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 The Cowardly Lion weapons in the MGM film are--a butterfly net and a flit gun labeled "Witch Remover." :) :) :) Most of the time, the words on the flit gun do not show at all.... David Hulan: Well, I sprung for "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" once I began to read it at the bookstore. So far Mary Russell seems to fit my description of ideal partner for Holmes. :-) She does not tolerate his arrogance at the start of their very first meeting, and she does make him respect her intelligence! But she says, "I am a feminist..." Did that term exist in 1915, the time 'Apprentice' begins? I had heard the term 'suffragist" before I started high school in 1968, but not "feminist." A Victorian girl could have said, "I am a suffragist.." or "I believe in equal rights for women..." without jarring my suspension of disbelief. Mary seems more a modern girl transported back to Victorian times. :-) And bee stings as a treatment for rheumatism? Isn't that a recent development, too? The book has been a delightful read otherwise, and it can certainly pass muster with a casual Holmes reader. Now let's hear from a hard-core Holmes fan...! :-D Oh, yes. To seem as if it were truly written in or about that era--one big fad of the Victorian era was the (debunked) theory of physiognomy, the "science" of judging a person's character simply from studying his facial features. The Holmes canon is full of it. :-) Hopefully, for reality's sake, the author will include such antiquated notions in "Beekeeper's Apprentice." That was one big fault with "Barnstormer in Oz." The hero knew more about modern science than a 1920's or 30's man should have. I destroyed my copy a long time ago (yecccch! :-P), so cannot look up examples. But someone else who noted that problem said the hero mentions genetic engineering. By the way, anybody who spots such anachronisms in SBM1 is welcome to publicly embarrass me with them. I like to avoid such mistakes with my writing. Some SBM1 owners may have noticed that my Sorcerer-Botanist is aware of the laws of heredity, but not of genetics. SBM1 begins when the word 'gene' has not been invented. (Or lifted from the words geneaology, or generation) At least I cannot find 'gene' in my old Thesaurus, published in the 1920's. Disturbingly, it does not even list the then-existing word 'suffragette'! Perhaps Victorian literature cannot be trusted as to how real Victorians behaved. One lady of that era submitted a story called "The Lucky Piece" to Victorian editors. The story was autobiographical, based on her *real* miserable childhood with abusive parents. But the editors rejected it, saying, "It is *unrealistic*(!) Parents never hurt their children."! Victorians were apparently in deep denial.... Bear: More arguments? Well, there they are above. :) :) Perhaps I should've sprinkled my last post to you with more of these. :) :) :-) :-) Have you ordered those back issues of Oziana yet? :-) Or are most or all of them out of print? I had to buy the one with Berman's Holmes story at an Oz convention. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 23:56:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Wormholes (or _DS9 in Oz_): It is very possible that both theories are true. On one hand, we have wormholes floating around out there, and certain people have a slight magical charge about them, for some unexplained reason. While this does not convey the ability to practice magic, it does have the side effect of drawing a wormhole, like a moth to a flame, during periods of high emotional activity. Jeremy: It seems likely that the wormholes are moving at both ends. Bear: Glad you finally got to my page. Hope the stuff you learned was good. Dave: If Elvera really got to the Wood between the Worlds, I hope she climbs a tree and tells us what she sees! :-) I just had a thought. If my theory is correct, that is, the Oz Universe is inside the four-dimensional continuum of which OUR Universe forms the surface, and if our Universe will shrink back to a microscopic particle, then Oz is in trouble, unless Glinda comes up with a solution in a billion years or so... :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 22:33:39 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-05-96 > > Eric: > You and Karyl may not care about continuity between QUEEN ANN and other Oz > books, but I hope you don't object to other writers observing consistency > with it if they want to. Of course not. But nobody should expect a ringing endorsement from us, either. BTW, how is it that "Glass Cat" warrents a reprint already? I don't think the initial run of "Queen Ann" (*BTW, EVERYBODY, NOTE THE SPELLING, NO "E" ON THE END OF ANN!* [/me now calms down]) has sold out yet, even though it's been out about three years now. > From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> > Subject: Oz > > The short answer is that some people think continuity and consistency > between Oz books is a good thing and some do not. Then there are those of us who don't really have an opinion one way or another. --Eric "Hey, when's the 'Bugle' going to review 'Queen Ann'?" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 11:46:38 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-06-96 Jeremy: I'm not sure how much good it would do for Oz to "meddle" in the affairs of this world; there are some national leaders out there who make Ruggedo look like Ozma by comparison. And they're not vulnerable to eggs, either... Bear: Whoever you talked to at BoW didn't know whereof he or she spoke. There's an Oz Collector, Vol. I, No. 24, dated Autumn 1996, that definitely appeared after the "Yew" one. Tyler: I'll buy your theory that the Ozzy universe is smaller than the one we live in. As I said last Digest, though, MOPPeT is that there aren't pre-existing "wormholes", but that certain fairly rare individuals have the capacity (generally unconscious) to open gates between the universes. (If you want to call those gates "wormholes", fine.) This can easily be extended to your smaller sub-universes, since for the most part the characters who find themselves in those obscure little towns that pepper Oz are the same ones who make the transition from this world to Oz (although it's probably necessary to add Kabumpo to the list for that purpose). I don't think there's actually any need to invoke the smaller sub-universes to cover the FF, but to provide room for all the post-FF books that may eventually be written it might be a good idea. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 12:38:04 -0500 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Lion of Oz I had mentioned this to a couple of people over the phone, but I think I never went public with it. I talked to Mrs. Roger Baum, and his latest 250+ page novel, *The Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage* is to be printed by the 10th or 11th. It will be available exclusively through the MGM Grand. I think I recall someone listing it as available from another bookstore some time ago, but according to YBR, it hasn't even been printed yet... Anyway, if anyone wants it (I know that Roger's work has had a LOT of negative discussion on past digests, so I am not intending this as a personal recommendation, at least not 'til I have read it myself), wait 'til after the 11th and call 1-800-929-9414, and be prepared to drop $24.98 on a Credit Card (which, if you're as broke as I am, you will be making payments on until the year 4565768797... ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: oz tapes if anyone is looking for baums original movies from the 20s i know where all 3 are avaialbae the patchwork girl of oz,the magic cloak of oz,his majesty the scarecrow of oz plus the 1925 version of larry semons wizard of oz these include new digital scores and narration to help bridge the gap from the silent era if your intrested in these email me privatly they are 12.95 each or all 4 for 35.00 plus shipping hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 20:12:04 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MANY UNIVERSES: Jeremy wrote: >Also, I thought we were pretty sure there IS going to be a "big >crunch" for our universe, although I'm no science major. I do >prefer, if so, to believe you that there will be no such occurence >for Oz. The evidence seems to indicate that there is vastly insufficient matter in the universe to stop the galactic expansion and "close" the universe into an eventual "big crunch", though the astronomers are still searching for the "missing mass" that they say will tip the scales in favor of a universe only marginally open or closed. No sign of this "missing mass" has turned up, but that doesn't stop the astronomers... :) CONTINUITY AND ANACHRONISMS: Gordon B. wrote: >Also from _Scarecrow_ (and I think this comes up elsewhere, too, maybe in >_Tik-Tok_): the narrator (Baum?) states unequivocally that Dorothy >introduced Ozma to both the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger. But surely >this cannot be... I think we'd have to agree this is another Baum boo-boo, like his assertion in _Tik-Tok_ that Glinda lives in the NORTH! Melody wrote: >Some SBM1 owners may have noticed that my Sorcerer-Botanist is >aware of the laws of heredity, but not of genetics. SBM1 begins when the >word 'gene' has not been invented. (Or lifted from the words geneaology, or >generation) At least I cannot find 'gene' in my old Thesaurus, published >in the 1920's. Mendel's experiments with garden peas began in 1856 (about the time the Wizard came to Oz) and he published his paper of his genetic discoveries _Experiments with Plant Hybrids_ in 1865...So Zim could very well be familiar with planet genetics. Don't worry too much about anachonisms though -- they abound in classic literature (isn't there a point in _Julius Caesar_ where someone consults a clock?)... DIGEST LOGO: Well, after many long, hard weeks of procrastinating :) I have finished my proposed graphic logo for the Digest. It is on my Ozzy Digest web page at: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html Let me know what you think of it. I also have new, sharper (rendered on my new PC) images of Emerald City and Mount Flathead. See the above page and http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Oz.html -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 9 - 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 02:55:05 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Jeremy - For yet ANOTHER "wood between the worlds" type place, read. _The Lives of Christopher Chant_ by Dianna Wynne Jones. And generally, read books by Dianna Wynne Jones. I have often sung her praises here before, and I know that I am not the only digest subscriber who is a DWJ fan, but this is worth repeating every once in a while. The nice thing about Chanukah is that it is not yet over, so you get to see my Chanukiya (special Chanukah menorah, or candelebra) at least one more time. :-) (the not-nice thing about Chanukah is that I still have not decided how to spell it in English. I'm sure Barry and Aaron have a fascinatingly different yet utterly consistent way of spelling it. And speaking of the brothers Adelman, it's been a while since either of you have posted here - where are you?) Gordon Birrell - my grasshopper-hunting days are long gone, but I still distinctly remember that a grasshopper's typical reaction to being caught is to spit up a nasty-looking brown excretion, at which point 5 out of 7 human grasshopper catchers will exclaim "ewww!" and open their sticky palms, allowing the relieved grasshopper to hop back to his grass. I would assume that at some point or other someone thought to name this excretion "molasses". It looks like molasses, though I somehow doubt it tastes like molasses. (I may have even tested this at one point. I used to be one of the 2 out of 7 humans who would cling to their grasshoppers at all expenses, inspecting it with rapture) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Happy Chanukah! S U S S S S U U U U I U U U U \ \ \ \ I / / / / Gili Bar-Hillel \ \ \ \ I / / / / abhillel@fas.harvard.edu \ \ \ \W/ / / / gili@scso.com L__L__L__W__J__J__J W W W === EEEEE ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 09:02:43 -0500 From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Your Ozzy Digest FAQ Graphic Dave: I just checked out your Ozzy Digest logo on our website. It's terrific! You did a great job. I don't know if this has fallen by the wayside or if this is your intention but, are you going to reproduce this for Ozzy Digesters onto a T-Shirt or button? If so, I would be interested. I didn't respond to this before. But, after seeing your results, I would be interested if this were to be the design for either the T-Shirt or the button. Check this out everyone!! Jim. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 14:34:23 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Melody: Oz is a land of anachronisms. It is much less techologically advanced than the United States in some ways, and much more advanced in others. In my opinion, it is more important to avoid anachronisms when talking about the Outside World than in Oz itself. The mentions of Skylab in "Umbrella Island in Oz" come to mind. Dave: Yes, Baum did say that Glinda lived in the north in _Tik-Tok_. It was just a little mistake, though. He was only two letters off! Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:19:21 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Jeremy: We don't, of course, know that any of the Oz maps are accurate - the most "official" one, on the endpapers of TIK-TOK, is clearly in error when it puts several of the underground kingdoms encountered in DOTWIZ on the continent of Baumgea. But map or not, there is ample textual evidence that Oz and Ev have a long land boundary. (Although in OZMA Ev is said to be opposite the Munchkin Country, in all the others it's opposite the Winkie Country, possibly edging around to the Gillikin Country. The maps from the IWOC represent the best consensus of Oz scholars, and I think should be accepted in the absence of strong evidence to the contrary.) I don't think there's any consensus as to whether there's going to be a "big crunch" in the future of our universe. As I recall, the current data indicates that the expansion rate of the universe is right at the critical one where if it's a little less, there will eventually be a big crunch, and if it's a little more, it will continue to expand indefinitely. (Or if it's exactly the critical value, the expansion will slow and slow and stop completely after aleph-null years...) And the noise level of the information we have is such that it's impossible to tell which is the true case. Gordon: You're obviously a city boy. :-) If you'd played around with grasshoppers when you were a kid, you'd know that if you squeeze one gently on its thorax, it will emit a rather disgusting smelly brown goop out of its mouth. Where I lived we called it "spitting tobacco juice", but I'm quite sure the Ork's "giving molasses" referred to the same phenomenon, which is familiar to all small children who live where grasshoppers are common. Baum obviously forgot that Dorothy didn't meet the Hungry Tiger until after he had become a settled resident of the Emerald City. But if you want to make a real effort toward consistency, you could say that the Hungry Tiger was the same tiger the travelers encountered near the end of WIZARD (who persuaded the Cowardly Lion to kill the giant spider). That would mean he met Dorothy first of any of the Oz humans, but then neither he nor Dorothy remembered this at the time of their first encounter in OZMA, so it was only later, after comparing notes offstage, that they realized that they were really old friends. Nathan: Neill's books are the hardest to reconcile with almost any consistent theory of Oz, but I think it not unreasonable to assume that the weather sent out in RUNAWAY passes into our world by magic, not by normal convection. Unless you decide to totally ignore statements in some of the "canonical" books, it's really impossible to come up with a site for its continent on our globe. Melody: Yes, there are a few anachronisms in THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE, but I found it an excellent book anyhow. (I don't know when the term "feminist" first appeared, but I think you're right that it was more recently than the teens of this century.) I don't think Victorian literature in general can be trusted to reveal how children were commonly treated - especially Victorian children's literature. Some of Dickens' works might be more realistic. On the other hand, I think that in modern times the pendulum may have swung too far the other way; I suspect that the percentage of abused children in modern American literature is higher than it is in the population as a whole. Tyler: Could be that the wormholes are there and that the magically-charged just attract one end of them. I can live with that. Eric: Maybe GLASS CAT sold better than QUEEN ANN? :-) Actually, I suspect that the reason it's getting reprinted soon is based on the fact that Borders is now carrying the ECP line; even if each store only orders a couple of copies, that will sell out a short print run pretty fast. If you check with Peter you might find that QUEEN ANN is also scheduled for reprinting soon (or may even be at the printer's now). I distinctly remember the Bugle reviewing QUEEN ANN not too long after it came out. I'd have to spend some time looking for the review, though. Or did I just dream it? (It's hard to imagine that you'd have missed it, but I remember a quite favorable review at some point, and I think it was in the Bugle. Where else would I have read one?) Dave: Mendel published his results in 1865, but in an obscure journal where they were ignored until well into the 20th century. However, Zim might have been one of the few who read his paper when it appeared... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 16:22:16 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 G. Birril: >Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection with molasses.< Haven't squeezed many live grasshoppers, have you, city boy? :-) :-) :-) I grew up in the country, and when you pick up and squeeze a grasshopper, dark, brown liquid oozes out of its jaws. It's not real molasses, but it looks like it, and a grasshopper is said to be "giving molasses" when it drools the stuff. Can any entymologists out there explain why a grasshopper does this? (Cap'n Bill probably had too much dignity, even as a grasshopper, to drool dark brown stuff out of his mouth.) Dorothy could have met the Hungry Tiger in Wizard of Oz. In the Quadling forests, it is a big tiger who tells them about the Spider Monster that is eating and terrorizing all the animals, and begs the Cowardly Lion to help them. This tiger could very have been our Hungry Tiger. Dave: Hmm. Guess I'll have to consult Mendell... He did discover the laws of heredity, which was the start of the science of genetics, but are you certain he discovered the cause of heredity too? I didn't think they had microscopes that powerful back then.... Okay, I just looked up the subject in a desk encyclopedia. Mendell discovered genetic law--did he call it genetic law, Dave?--but the brief entry about him does not say he discovered the genes themselves. Genetic engineering, as in gene splicing, not breeding, seems to date back to 1973, but not earlier. So Farmer made a big anachronistic boo-boo in if he had his barnstormer know about genetic engineering back in the 30's and 40's. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 13:22:36 -0800 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Looked at your FAQ page again today, Dave, and a very good Digest logo! We picked the right man for the job, I guess. It did take a little long to download, though. Also, the way the photo was interlaced, the yellow road was built seemingly brick by brick! I don't know if you planned it, but it was a nice added effect. One more thing, maybe you could hyper-text the FAQ questions, so that someone doesn't have to scroll down if they want to look up just a couple of questions. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 18:00:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 Priority: normal Gordon: No offense, but I think that we should look to Oz as per Baum, the movie being merely the representation thereof to members of the non-Oz world. (I'm a purist in that sense.) Incidentally, though, I hadn't noticed the similarity to modern aviation myself (I'm unobservant). Nathan: I don't think rubber gloves would be enough to shield a witch from water (as rubber was once a living plant). Who says Oz's universe isn't infinite? We, after all, have only explored a fraction of ours--I don't think we can safely assume that the Oz, Ev, etc., of the FF is all there is to that universe, any more than the universe of the 19th century was all there was to ours. Yes, it makes sense that Oz would be on a parallel Earth; there are people who look like us, who presumably talk the same language as we do (since visitors to Oz can understand what they say). On the other hand, perhaps when someone enters that dimension, the visitor instantly begins to understand Ozzish, or perhaps everyone can understand what is said there because Oz is as magical as it undoubtedly is. Tyler: Who says Oz is INSIDE our universe? Since it has magic, and lots of other stuff we don't, perhaps it's OUTSIDE -- and we're INSIDE, a mere copy of the real world (a sort of disturbing theory, in a way). David: See my note to Tyler above. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 23:18:34 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-07-96 *please post* Gordon Birrell--Re: Grasshoppers. I _think_ (I can't verify it with the sources I have available here) that some grasshoppers excrete a sticky molassas-like substance. I seem to remember someone showing grasshoppers spitting as a defense mechanism, which may be what the Scarecrow is referring to. Interested parties--Re: Chronologies: Here is the chronology for THE WIZARD OF OZ (long promised). Day 1 - Cyclone - Dorothy & Toto carried off. (an unknown amount of time--Baum says "hour after hour"--passes while Dorothy is carried in the cyclone. I assume about 12 hours.) Day 2 - Dorothy arrives in the land of the Munchkins - meets Witch of the North - night in Boq's house Day 3 - Dorothy encounters the Scarecrow - the three enter the great forest - night in Tin Woodman's cottage Day 4 - The party rescues the Tin Woodman - they encounter the Cowardly Lion - night in forest "under a large tree" Day 5 - The party crosses the great ditch - they meet the Kalidahs - they come to the river - Tin Woodman makes a raft - night on river bank Day 6 - The party crosses the river - the Scarecrow is marooned - they enter the field of poppies in afternoon (the Tin Woodman wants to reach the Yellow Brick Road before dark) & are rescued by the field mice - night in farmhouse in Emerald City area (everything is green) Day 7 - The party comes to the Emerald City in afternoon - night in Palace Day 8 - Dorothy meets the Great Oz Day 9 - The Scarecrow meets the Great Oz Day 10 - The Tin Woodman meets the Great Oz Day 11 - The Cowardly Lion meets the Great Oz Day 12 - The party leaves the Emerald City to find the Wicked Witch of the West - attack by wolves in afternoon - night in open field Day 13 - The party is attacked by crows, bees, & Winkies - Winged Monkeys attack Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, carry Dorothy, Toto & Lion to Witch's castle Days 14-21 At this point the captivity of Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion begins. Some days & nights pass - enough so that Dorothy and the Lion can begin plotting their escape. I assume a minimum of a week. Day 22 - Dorothy melts the Wicked Witch - she frees the Lion and the Winkies - they start off in search of the Tin Woodman Day 23 - They find the Tin Woodman Days 24-26 - The Winkies work "for three days and four nights" to restore the Tin Woodman - the party starts off in search of the Scarecrow Day 27 - They find the Scarecrow after walking "all that day and part of the next" Day 28 - The Scarecrow is restored Days 28-30 - The reunited party spends "a few happy days" at the Witch's castle Day 31 - The party leaves for the Emerald City - night in field Days 32-35 - The party is lost - "day by day passed away" Day 36 - The Queen of the Field Mice suggests using the Golden Cap - the party is carried to the gates of the Emerald City by the Winged Monkeys Days 37-39 - They wait for the Wizard to receive them Day 40 - Oz receives the party at 9:04 AM - he is exposed as a humbug Day 41 - The Scarecrow receives his brains, the Tin Woodman his heart, and the Cowardly Lion his courage Days 42-44 - "For three days Dorothy heard nothing from Oz." Day 45 - "On the fourth day" Oz announces his plans to leave with Dorothy in a balloon Days 46-48 - "It took three days" to sew the balloon together Day 49 - Oz departs Day 50 - Council of the party ("on the morning after the balloon had gone up") - they decide to visit Glinda Day 51 - The party leaves for Glinda's palace - night in field Day 52 - They enter the forest of fighting trees - they enter the China Country - the Cowardly Lion defeats the monster spider - they cross the hill of the Hammerheads - Glinda sends Dorothy home In his Oz books Baum is not always clear about the passage of time, and WIZARD is not as tightly plotted as other books in the series. This chronology should not be taken as conclusive. I have had to base it in part on my own perceptions of what goes on in the story. It is clear, though, that more days pass in WIZARD than in any other Oz book I know. Best, KRS ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 19:54:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Miscellania on Oz 1) On redrawing the map of Oz's world, as far as I can see the current map (found in the Del Rey editions of Thompson's books) is wrong. Shouldn't Ev be only a few kilometers wide near Evna, and shouldn't Pingaree be near Phreex? 2) On the location of Anuther Planet, I had assumed that just as Lurline's World/Nonestica was a parallel of Earth, Anuther would be a parallel of Mars or Venus. 3) On wormholes, probably not involved, but seeing that people who have been to Lurline's World once tend to go back again, I would guess that probably enchantment plays a part in repeat visits. Anyone can fall into a wormhole, but no one has reported a wormhole (and they do have a distinctive appearance) in any Oz book I've read, even the truly heretical ones. However, seeing that magic can work on Earth, what would stop the Magic Machine (assuming you accept its existence) from taking an interest in certain people and bringing them back to Lurline's World whenever it wanted to? ("Gregor Samsa awoke one morning to find himself transported into West Antozia.") Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 22:36:37 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: An Ozzy Holiday Tree We haven't put up a tree in many years, but our new house in Illinois has a bay window that is ideal for the purpose, so my wife was able to overcome my normal bahhumbuggery of the season and get one this year. At least it's Ozzy. For starters, the two outer lights of the bay window have, as they have had from the time we moved in, a piece of Ozzy stained glass in each - Tik-Tok and the Nome King on one side and the Glass Cat, Ojo, and the Woozy on the other. So they frame the tree, which is behind the two inner lights. Then a stained-glass Ozma hangs near the top, and a set of ceramic ornaments from the Smithsonian of the Fab Four are tastefully arranged in a cascade down the side of the tree facing into the room. (I don't know whose version these are modeled on - the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman actually are pretty close to Vladimirsky's illustrations for Volkov's WIZARD, but the Dorothy is quite different from his Elly. She looks more like the Dorothy from Roger Baum's DOROTHY OF OZ than any of the other versions I'm familiar with. Does anyone familiar with these figures know whose illustrations they're derived from? Or are they original to the creator of the figures?) The _piece de resistance_, however, is at the peak of the tree. Now, if my Ozma stained glass ornament were suitable for bottom-mounting, she'd certainly have pride of place, but it's only practical to suspend her from the top, which doesn't work for a top ornament. So we may well have the only tree in the world where at the peak, instead of the traditional star or angel, the Wicked Witch of the West (movie version) is riding her broomstick up there... ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 23:48:29 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Jeremy: WHile the map itself may not be drawn to scale as exactly as our maps are today, I tink there is enough evidence in and out of the FF to say that in general, it is fairly good. We know for a fact that most of the major countries are indeed on the same continent as Oz. Ev borders on the Deadly Desert, for example, so that we know Ev really is on Baumgea, and by extension so are many other countries. While it can be argued that some tiny details need to be tinkered with, a major redrawing of the map as we know it would be unnecessary and would contradict tons of evidence in and out of the FF. Gordon: Any mention of Dorothy intoducing the Lion and Tiger to Ozma must be an error, since Dorothy saw them riding across the deadly desert on the magic carpet. There is some question regarding the details of the meeting between the Lion, the Tiger and Ozma, as the accounts given in _Mysterious Chronicles_ and _Enchanted Emeralds_ are slightly different. The HACC lords are working on this. However, the Lion and Tiger must have met Ozma between _Land_ and _Ozma_. Also, Dorothy did not meet the Tiger until _Ozma_, unless the Tiger that we met in the forest in _Wizard_ really was the Hungry Tiger himself, as some people suggest. Nathan: Jinnicky has been called "The Red Jinn of Ev", so your theory is possible. Nathan again: Those of us who believe Oz to be in a parallel dimension or Universe also believe, for the most part, that the Ozzy world and our Earth are intimately linked together, so that events in one can have a strong effect on another. It is "just next door", multidimensionally speaking. That is why I like to believe that the Ozzy Universe is so small, perhaps not much bigger than our own Solar System. In this way, it can be "attached" to Earth, and can be considered a part it, in a manner of speaking. Melody: While Hank Stover (the main character in _Barnstormer_, for those of you in Rio Linda) did not betray a post 1920's knowledge of science, in my opinion he much more than he should have, considering that he was a young pilot in his 20's. DAvid: There is no real need for free-standing gateways, although there is no evidence one way or the other. I'll buy your assertation that the vast majority of travel between worlds has been due to certain people's magical charge creating a temporary gateway. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 11:16:58 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-07-96 In aa digest from 6 Dec 1996, Gordon Birrell asked: >Here is a question on a passage in _Scarecrow of Oz_: when the Ork finds >Captain Bill metamorphosed into a grasshopper, he asks him: "Do you give >molasses?", and Captain Bill answers, "I guess I'm not that kind of >grasshopper." Does anyone have any idea what this means? I vaguely recall >that the word grasshopper used to refer to some kind of engine with a >grasshopper-like piston arm, but I'm totally mystified as to the connection >with molasses. I assumed as I read the passage that Baum was using molasses the way we used to use the word tobacco in connection with grasshoppers. Some of the bigger grasshoppers, we used to say, spit tobacco because of the brown liquid substance that they could produce out of their mouths. It does look a little like tobacco juice, and it also looks a little like molasses. That however, is just a guess at the meaning. Does anyone know if grasshoppers are anywhere spoken of as spitting molasses? The other definitions of grasshopper I've been able to find--one is a kind of light airplane and the other is a lever in a piano--don't give me any information that I can use to figure out what Baum's meaning is. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:59:32 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: like you, I like David Hulan's suggestion of some kind of magical charge that makes Dorothy and others more likely to fall through to Ozlands. I'd suggest as a possibility, though, that they might not need to have a "magic potential" to begin with -- the experience of being in Oz might leave them "charged" so that they are much more likely to go through another time. Gordon Birrell: I think it was Dan Mannix who explained the "molasses" -- grasshoppers spit a brown fluid, and in Baum's time that was jocularly called giving molasses. I'll try to remember to look for the passage that says Dorothy introduced Ozma to the Cowardly Lion and Hungry Tiger to be sure, by recollection is that Dorothy is described as having "discovered" them -- which would be basically correct (assuming the Hungry Tiger is the one they meet in "Wizard" in the Quadling country). Gili Bar-Hillel: The play touting itself as having an actual mill onstage -- sounds like the sort of stunt David Belasco would have been pulling then. David Hulan: Watson's multiplying wives come from (over) enthusiastic BSI speculations. Conanical #1 is Mary Morstan, married in 1887 or 1888 and dead by 1894, when Watson moves back in with Holmes in Baker Street. Conanical #2 is the one around 1902 Holmes mentions, for whom Watson "had deserted" him. The speculations are for an 1887 wife to explain the varying marriage-time dates and for an 1896 wife to explain a story about then in which Watson is not living in Baker Street. A sorry example of how widely the Gold Standard=Yellow Brick theory has come to be taken for fact -- a reviewer for "Small Press Review," reviewing a book of baseball stories published this year by the U of W. Alabama, quotes the author as worrying that 1940 Carolina baseball teams may be too obscure a topic to interest anybody now, and remarks cheerily "The Wizard of Oz" still works even though Bryan and McKinley are long forgotten. Yes, I sent in a letter with a correction. I tend to think that the unquestioning acceptance of Littlefield's theory represents a general American belief that fiction of any sort is pretty much worthless, and especially children's fiction, unless you can "justify" it by having it turn out to be secretly about something "real" and "serious." Bah humbug. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 20:26:29 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twoday's Oz Growls The chating about C.S. Lewis' "Wood Between the Worlds" reminded me that William Morris wrote a great piece of fantasy called "The Wood Beyond The World." Even better were "The Well At The Worlds End" and "The Water of the Wonderous Isles." They were all reprinted in paperback during fantasy's golden age in the early 1970's by Ballantine. You can still find them in good used book stores. Gordon - I can see you have never picked up a grasshopper. When I was a cub we called it tobacco juice not molasses. To be specific, its what the grasshopper leaves in your hand when you pick him up. Its nontoxic as far as I know. Melody and Eric - You will have to forgive me. I have been embroiled in celebrating my birthday and other events and have fallen far behind on everything, especially correspondence. I do have Ozianas for 80 and 84, but will have to beg, borrow or steal 76 and 78. Is there someone who would like to trade a xerox of the Holmesish stories in 80 and 84 for those in 76 and 78? I can't imagine IWOOC still has them available. By the way, Melody, if you really enjoy "The Beekeeper's Apprentice," (which I will try to read next) you should know Laurie King wrote a sequel titled, "A Monstrous Regiment of Women." Now that title should certainly sting your imagination! Oh, and the bee stings for arthritis is an old fashioned remedy IIRC. One that would not be popular with Robin. :) Seasons greetings, Bear (:<) Thank you David, I will "pulse" BOW again! ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 2:07:46 AM From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jim W. wrote: >I just checked out your Ozzy Digest logo on our website. It's terrific! >You did a great job. I don't know if this has fallen by the wayside or >if this is your intention but, are you going to reproduce this for Ozzy >Digesters onto a T-Shirt or button? If so, I would be interested. I >didn't respond to this before. But, after seeing your results, I would >be interested if this were to be the design for either the T-Shirt or >the button. Check this out everyone!! Thanks for your comments! Yes, I still want to go ahead and turn this into a T-shirt-and-button project, if anyone is willing to do it... Danny wrote: >Looked at your FAQ page again today, Dave, and a very good Digest logo! >We picked the right man for the job, I guess. Thanks! As I said, I am still looking for someone knowledgable in T-shirts and badges to implement my logo. :) >It did take a little long to download, though. It *is* big--122K even after reduction from 1.6x10^7 colors to 256! And my attempts to JPEG-compress it really uglied it up... >Also, the way the photo >was interlaced, the yellow road was built seemingly brick by brick! I >don't know if you planned it, but it was a nice added effect. The bricks *were* deliberate... >One more thing, maybe you could hyper-text the FAQ questions... That's my *next* project! :) David H. wrote: >I don't think there's any consensus as to whether there's going to be a "big >crunch" in the future of our universe. As I recall, the current data >indicates that the expansion rate of the universe is right at the critical >one where if it's a little less, there will eventually be a big crunch, and >if it's a little more, it will continue to expand indefinitely. (Or if it's >exactly the critical value, the expansion will slow and slow and stop >completely after aleph-null years...) And the noise level of the information >we have is such that it's impossible to tell which is the true case. I won't comment, since this *is* a Digest about Oz not cosmology :) I'll just suggest that you read _The Big Bang Never Happened_ by Eric Lerner. It presents the alrernate view of the universe that I believe holds for both ours and Oz's universe. OZ ON CHARON: Someone asked me for an update on where we stand on this and I will... But tomorrow not tonight 'cause it's two in the morning... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, DECEMBER 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:05:08 -0500 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 12-9/10-96 Gordon: Don't you want to run right out and squeeze a gresshopper?? :) :) Ken S.: Great job with the Wizard of Oz chronology! David: Is the Wicked Witch ornament a "tree topper", or just an ornament?? And, where did you find it? Bear: A belated "Happy Birthday"! Dave: re: Ozzy Digest T-shirt & button, didn't someone (Barb DeJohn, IIRC) volunteer to pursue the project? Happy Chanukah to all my Jewish Digest friends. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:22:35 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission I give up on designating the intended recipients of my well wishing of a few days ago. Something in the hardware, software, or wetware between me and the Digest causes that line to vanish. Another mystery of our universe (crunching or otherwise). Would someone please tell us how is Fred Meyer doing now? What s-mail address should be used to send him holiday well wishes? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:43:05 -0500 From: Scott Piehler Subject: Ozzy Digest submission Greetings all! Scott & Tamar Piehler here. New to the Digest. Oz fans for many years, with tastes running to Baum & Eric Shanower. Old & New I guess. I have a question about possible value of our most prized Ozzy Collectible. In 1989, the *1841* company (aka Mt. High Coins & Collectibles) issued a 10 coin set commemorating OZ. It was known as *The Wizard of OZ-A Celebration* and *From Kansas to OZ* and *A Tribute to America's First Fairy Tale*. It was authorized by the Baum Trust. Each coin was one troy ounce of 99.9% (.999 fine) silver, 47mm in diameter. The coins were: Dorothy & Toto Lion Witch of the West Wizard & Emerald City Jack P. Scraps Nick Chopper Scarecrow Glinda & Munchkins There's no place like home The coins are done in the style of the Denslow & Neill illustrations. Each was issued proof quality, in a presentation case, with both the coin and each booklet serially numbered. 5000 of each coin produced. We were just wondering what we might have here. We have all 10 coins. Here's the kicker. It' a matched serial number set. Each coin is #3/5000. That's right, *three*. If anyone wants to take a stab at a value, we'd be appreciative. Not *really* looking to sell, merely trying to educate ourselves. BTW- If anyone in the DIgest lives near the University of New Hampshire, I remember a resident of Durham who always did his lawn up as *Christmas in OZ*. Saw it about 10 years ago. Beautiful! I seem to recall it was somewhere off the street that runs by the main grocery store/Burger King plaza. Scott & Tamar Piehler rosco29@mindspring.com Atlanta, GA "That proves you are unusual," returned the Scarecrow; "and I am convinced the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones." L. Frank Baum, The Land of Oz Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Tyler and others: Perhaps we ought to settle on a name for Nonestica / Baumega / Imagination before we go any further with our discussions. After all, Baum settled on "Oz" before he wrote about it (I assume). Again, I vote for Nonestica (for the continent), but if I'm outvoted, I'll humbly desist. Everyone: I've long suspected the tiger of the forest is the same as the HT. Tyler: Again, I like the parallel dimension Oz theory. Also, nice web page (I've now gotten around to looking at it myself). Jim's was nice too, as were Dave's and "geocities" (I've forgotten whose that was now, and I don't have time to hook into it right now). ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:27:41 -0800 From: wizofoz@okway.okstate.edu (Trisha Gedon) Subject: Ozzy Holiday Tree David: Your tree sounds great. I have a few Ozzy ornaments that take center stage on my tree every year. This year, however, we didn't put up a big tree. With an active 18-month old in the house we decided a small tree on the counter would have to do. Maybe next year. I was curious about the WWW tree topper you were describing. Do you happen to remember where it was purchased? I'm always on the lookout for Ozzy-related tree ornaments. Thanks. Trisha :) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:33 -0500 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Gili: Since this is the first Digest since Chanukah started that I had to download, it's the first one where I could conveniently view your Chanukiyah in a monospaced font. Very nice, and I see that you're "lighting" the candles as the holiday progresses, which wasn't obvious before. Nathan: If one wants to work the consistency problem, Baum didn't say Glinda lived in the north in TIK-TOK; he just said she was "in her magnificent castle, which stands far north of the Emerald City..." Maybe this is just a summer residence or something of the sort, like the kings of Persia had, with palaces in Susa for the winter and Persepolis for the summer. Melody: Nobody saw a gene until fairly recently - the '50s or maybe even the '60s. But then nobody's seen a proton - much less a quark - even now, but we know they exist and deal with them regularly. Genes were known and discussed in biology by the '40s, I know, and I think well before that, probably in the teens or earlier. (I know they were in high school biology texts in the '40s, and not particularly up-to-date texts at that.) Jeremy: It's entirely possible that the Oz -universe- is infinite, just as ours is, but it's fairly clear from a number of references that the general arrangement of space around the Oz world is smaller. For one thing, the moon and some stars are within the atmosphere, and the distance to the moon is short enough that Mr. Tinker can climb a ladder to it during the time it's in the sky - which can't be much more than the 12 hours or so max that it's in our sky on a given day. Anuther Planet seems to be in the atmosphere, too, if Planetty and Thun rode a thunderbolt down to earth (though we could assume that what she called a thunderbolt was really a meteorite, I guess; she wasn't a scientist, and in any case there's a question as to what a "thunderbolt" really is, as distinct from a lightning bolt). Ken S.: Thanks for the chronology of WIZARD. Dave, could you save this as one of the text files you make available? (If not, let us know so that I can save it separately myself.) At the end of OZMA Dorothy is said to spend "several very happy weeks" in Oz; if those weeks added up to more than about seven, that book might cover a longer total span than WIZARD. But certainly WIZARD had significant action going on for a good bit longer than any of the later books. Aaron: I agree with you that the Haff-Martin map seems to show too much distance between the coast and the desert near Evna, though that wouldn't be difficult to correct by providing an inlet of some sort. I think, though, that the reference to Phreex in RINKITINK has to be taken with a grain of salt; if there's really an Isle of Phreex near Pingaree then I don't think it can be the same Isle of Phreex that John Dough visited. (Of course, there's no reason why there couldn't be two Isles of Phreex. There are quite a number of "Long Island"s scattered around the world, for instance.) For one thing, Baum says that the inhabitants of Phreex in RINKITINK had no use for pearls, and I don't think that likely in the case of the freaks of Phreex in JOHN DOUGH. (Though whether they'd have anything to trade to Pingaree for pearls is something else again.) And the available evidence, while not conclusive, seems to put Hiland and Loland on the opposite side of Baumgea from Ev, which would put the JOHN DOUGH Phreex on the opposite side from Pingaree. Tyler: Jinnicky is also called "the Wizard of Ev", in WISHING HORSE if not elsewhere. Ruth: It's possible that every mortal's first trip to Oz is a random event, and it's only upon returning to our world that they have a magical potential that makes it likelier that they'll slip back into Oz on a future occasion. I guess the only human character who arrived in the Oz world because of being in the company of one of the magically-charged ones, and who returned to our world and never returned to Oz, is Zeb. And the only other one who made just one trip to Oz without the direct action of magic and returned to our world to stay was Jam. (As far as I recall; I haven't thought through the whole FF to verify this.) The above applying only to the FF, of course; there are quite a few counterexamples in later books. The BSI are probably the only other group as assiduous at trying to rectify inconsistencies in a fictional canon as we Oz fans are (at least, I've never heard of any other similar group). It seems unlikely to me that Watson would have married in both 1887 and 1888 without there being any mention of mourning for the 1887 wife in THE SIGN OF THE FOUR (and with the laws of the day that quick a divorce would be impossible), but then it seems unlikely that Glinda would have a summer palace in the Gillikin country, too... Yeah, even if Baum had had something like Littlefield's idea in mind when he wrote WIZARD, nobody before Littlefield ever noticed it, and the book was popular for over sixty years before that - so why should forgetting Bryan and McKinley affect its popularity afterwards? Bear: Happy birthday, whenever it was! (Mine's in a week and a day...the big six-oh! ) Dave: I saw your new Digest logo yesterday and concur with others that it's great! If it's translated into a T-shirt and/or button, I definitely want one (each, if applicable)! I agree, this isn't the Cosmology Digest. :-) I'll try to remember to look up that Lerner book (though I think I remember reading an unfavorable review of it somewhere recently). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:09:23 +0000 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 Jeremy: You mentioned that people coming to Oz might automatically be able to understand Ozish. The only problem with this theory is that it would be highly unlikely that all of the puns and idioms would tranlate so perfectly from Ozish to English. An even stranger case occurs when the Scarecrow visits the Silver Island. Thompson states that Silver Islandish is different from English and Ozish, but, once again, puns and expressions translate perfectly. Perhaps Silver Islandish is English, but a kind of English that is not understandable to anyone but the Silver Islanders, because of thick accents or something. In the Oz books, magic does occur in the Outside World. Much of the time, however, this magic originates in fairyland. Kenneth: I liked the chronology. Yes, _Wizard_ does take place over a much longer amount of time than most Oz books. Some do not take place over more than a few days. Ruth: I agree with your statement about people having to find symbolic meanings in literature. Personally, I generally prefer to take the Oz stories as history. There is plenty to analyze in these works without dragging in populism or other odd symbols. Aaron: Yes, there are inaccuracies on the maps, especially in terms of scale, but they are still pretty good reference materials for use in the study of Ozology (I wish that Ozology were offered as a major here at college). Tyler: I think that there is evidence to support the idea that Oz is in a parallel dimension, but I do not really like the idea of Oz being in a different Solar System somewhere. If Oz is in another dimension, I do not see why it has to be on some other planet. Maybe the dimension is only large enough to hold Imagination, Tarara, Antozia, and the nearby Nonestic Ocean. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I've always wanted a smoking jacket, and now I've got one." -Kabumpo, after his robe catches on fire "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy Ozma and Oz Forever! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:35:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 12-10-96 The windmill