] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:42:05 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-31-97 Jane, just remember, don't be nervous. The whole world is watching you, and half of them have their VCRs on. Scott Hutchins wants to know how to get into digest discussions. Just jump in with both feet! BTW Scott, be careful, some of the Centennial Book Contest judges are on the digest. Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > > BOOK OF THE MONTH: > My only problem with doing the books in order is the knowledge of the time > element if we have certain books in mind for discussion. If we were to start > tomorrow with _Wizard_, then we'd get to _Glinda_ in March of '98, and we'd > finish off the FF in May of 2000, and only then would we start on the non-FF > stuff. ( I suppose on the good side, by the time we'd get to _Locasta_, it > might actually be published! :) ) > Perhaps we do not need a whole month for ezch book. Couldn't we say everything significant about a book in two weeks? Just asking. As far as voting goes, I will keep my vote with DOT & WIZ. In case amyone was wondering. So far seven books have been submitted for the IWOC Centennial Book Contest. They range from 25 to 250+ typed pages. John Fricke writes that he sent out 200 responses for contest rules. That means that there are 193 MSS coming in in the next nine weeks. (Or maybe it doesn't). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:46:50 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-31-97 Scott: complicated about it. I don't think that Peter goes into public domain until 2003 or so. If you just hint at his deeds and don't use his name, the copyright issue might not arise. Also, Pastoria was a tailor in _Kaliko in Oz_, which was published by Buckethead Enterprises, so there is probably no legal problem with your using him in your manuscript. Of course, I'm no lawyer, or expert on copyright law. One problem that might arise regards the Club contest rules. I seem to recall them saying that only Baum characters, as well as your own characters, can be used in contest manuscripts. Jeremy: I don't live very close to the Library of Congress. When I read part of _Pirates_, I was living in Downingtown, Pennsylvania, which is halfway between Philadelphia and Lancaster. My mother and I happened to be passing through Washington on our way back from Virginia, so we stopped at the Library. Danny: I believe it has been suggested that the "courage" given to the Lion was some kind of alcoholic beverage or similar substance that made him feel brave for some time. In _Cowardly Lion_, the Lion tells the Patchwork Girl that his courage has worn off. Dave: I'm not really particular on what order in which we read the books, although I would like to discuss a few post-Baums soon. I guess it does not really matter to me, as long as we are still able to discuss books other than the Book of the Month. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html Kinglet: "Is 'devoir' a kingly word?" Nebbie: "Absolutely kingly. It was used by King Arthur and Richard Coeur de Leon." Kinglet: "Very well! Why don't you answer me? Why are you so late in paying me your boudoirs?" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:54:48 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-31-97 Bill of Ozlo: I'm having trouble finding your website. Can you clarify how to go about it? Dave: Eeeks! You're right; doing the books in order will make the series stretch on (which is good in a way . . .). Well, regardless of the problems, I still think we should do it that way. If necessary, perhaps we should skip #1, since we've all heard quite a bit about WIZARD, although I'd still rather start there and head on forward. Or perhaps we should do TWO books per month (15 days each). Just a suggestion. At this point, I move to let you make an executive decision, since you'll probably end up doing that anyway. Okay, after weeks of putting up with my humor (or lack thereof) in other ways, here's my contribution to our virus parody collection (I hope nobody's done this one already, and I missed it): PRINCESS LANGUIDERE VIRUS: Makes the computer send data to a hundred monitors (only one of which is the real one); since the monitor can't find more than one, the data gets caught in a circuit, leaving the computer good for nothing at all. (The person who accidentally created this virus was trying to get a head of his classmates in Professor Wogglebug's computer programming class, with some interesting results.) DEADLY DESERT VIRUS: It's very unwise to touch the keyboard while this virus is in control of your computer, as you might find yourself suddenly a bit more flexible than you remember being last time you checked . . . FOUNTAIN OF OBLIVION VIRUS: This virus is a real problem for anyone who wants a usable computer. The drawback: your computer loses everything stored in memory. The advantage: at least your computer forgets it's forgotten anything. Trivia question: Although cancelled long ago, there was a TV sitcom based on the Oz series. Name this show. (It might be wise to remind me sometime that I asked the question, because I'll forget. Also, don't take the question too seriously.) That's all for now (as if that wasn't enough already), Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:36:41 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 01-30-97 Dear Bear: In the letter to readers at the end of "Sir Harold, de Camp only calls the culprit "A one-time colleague, later notorious for his non-literary activities." Harold Shea's would-be assassin had him eaten by a giant serpent. In "Sir Harold" de Camp rescues him by having him disappear to Oz just as he goes down the serpent's throat. Here's a quote from de Camp's same letter in the back of "Sir Harold": "I found Ariosto much more entertaining. Perhaps his heroes' light-hearted way of trying to rape the heroines as soon as they have rescued them from the monsters lends a spice that Spenser's more austere presentation lacks." How many feminists must've written angry letters over *this* one? I remember feeling, "Grrrrrrrr! A hero who rapes is no hero at *all*!" >:-( . Kenneth Shepherd: Yes, I have the same audio clips--bought them at Radio Shack. When Windows 95 comes up, it shows a wallpaper of our four friends in the throne room, and then the computer booms: I--AM--OZ------! Tried the witch's laugh for a default sound, but she got irritating in a hurry. The Munchkins' "Follow the Yellow Brick Road" was the least irritating default. There were roughly 20 other clips, too. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:25:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-31-97 Book of the Month: Dave wrote>>My only problem with doing the books in order is the knowledge of the time element if we have certain books in mind for discussion. If we were to starttomorrow with _Wizard_, then we'd get to _Glinda_ in March of '98.... We'd have the same problem with a time line no matter what sequence we use, wouldn't we? Like almost everyone who has stated a choice, I hope we just go with the logical "as published" sequence. On t'other hand, we don't have to devote an entire month to each of the relatively easy to find Baum books, do we? Is two weeks enough for each of these books? Feedback please. (It might make Dave feel better if we could move things along a bit faster!) Bibliographical points: I guess I could sum them up as we go. But I shudder at trying to sum up edition points on the WIZARD. It's a very complicated book, bibliographically. Perhaps I could just hit the high points here? If anyone needs more details, they *really* should get BIBOZ. *************************************************************** Here is a CRASH COURSE ON OZ EDITION POINTS *************************************************************** The first edition of WIZARD was published by George M. Hill. The first editions of all Oz books from LAND through TIN WOODMAN were published by Reilly & Britton. The company didn't change to Reilly & Lee until after the first edition of TIN WOODMAN was published. This means that any Oz book copyrighted between 1904 and 1918 must be published by Reilly & Britton if it's a first. N.B. Even if it's published by R&B, the book may not be a first edition. One other helpful piece of info is that if the Oz book bears a copyright date of 1935 or earlier, it must have some color work in it (not just on the paper cover label) if it's a first edition. The color work may be color plates, colored inking, or (as in ROAD) colored pages. There's lots more to know, but the above is a good place to start. *************************************************************** VirOzes: They're great! Keep 'em coming. PLEASE include a notice of permission if you want to see any of yours in OZIANA. Danny? Melody? Gili? Nathan? Jane: I know your first 15 minutes will be great. I also know that it's only your *first* 15 minutes! (of fame, y'all) Bill Wright: Congratulations on the award. You deserve it. Centennnial Book Contest:Using Peter Brown is Not a good idea. FWIW, I'm one of the contest judges. So is Steve. I'm sure he'll speak for himself on this, so I won't elaborate. Guess what?! I just got a heavy box full of manuscripts to judge! Quizzes: Anyone out there think that a compilation of BUGLE quizzes might be marketable? Something like what David's doing with OZIANA? I'd have very little trouble creating such a booklet, and it would be cheap, cheap, cheap to produce (I hope). --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-31-97 With all this discussion about the "Book of the Month" going on, I just want to say that I'm not terribly 100% interested in taking part (I'm spending too much time just reading the "Digest" as it is!), and so I'd like to cast my vote for the discussions being a separate posting, apart from the rest of the "Digest," so I can more easily skim it (or delete it or save it for later if necessary). And Jane, I believe you meant Secretary of State. Bill Clinton is Head of State. --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Saturday, 01 Feb 1997 12:31:32 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things RUGGEDO ZAPS AOL?: Hey, all you AOLers -- Did anybody receieve a Digest for the 30th? I just got a message from AOL bouncing the 1/30 Digest for *everyone*! I will resend it to you guys if necessary. (And did you get the 1/31 Digest?) BOOK OF THE MONTH: Okay, here's my ruling < fanfare :) >: We will do the books in order, but instead of a Book of the "Month" per se, we will have a "Book of Current Focus" (BCF) -- This will still allow people to comment on other books (I hope -- I really don't want to deter people from talking about what *they* want to), and we will just talk about the BCF as long as we feel we have anything to say, and then we will move on to the next...Also, I will announce the next book (obviously _Land_ in this case) well in advance, to give people a chance to get hold of it and read it, if necessary. I will *not*, however put the BCF discussions in a separate Digest...I have *enough* on my plate! :) So I will give everyone a week to get and read _Wizard_ (shouldn't be too hard -- it's by far the easiest to come by) and then we'll let the _Wizard_ discussion begin! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 02, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 17:18:57 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Robin: I vote yes to the idea of compiling Oz quizzes. That would be a great addition to the world of Oz fiction (or whatever), and rather educational too. Also, I hereby give permission to use any of my "viruses" in OZANIA (as if they'd be wanted!), but if you use the PRINCESS LANGUIDERE virus, change my wording of "since the monitor can't find more than one [i.e. monitor!!] . . ." to "since the computer can't find more than one . . .". I don't know what I was thinking! Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 17:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: I just want to give my aye! in that I am interested in participating in reading the Oz book of the "whatever" club. This is the perfect opportunity for me to expand my knowledge of Oz beyond the movie. I have read the 14 Baum books a long time ago, but would be willing to go on if I could participate in a weekly/monthly discussion. I think this idea should have been proposed a long time ago. I find many of the posts on this Digest interesting but can't relate often times because I'm not as "Oz literary sophisticated" as many people on this Digest. I just hope that people will be patient if some of the same questions come up that have already surfaced in previous posts re: the books. Dave Hardenbrook: I have to agree with Eric Gjoovag in that I think this should be maintained in a separate post. During the few days that you were sending poll results, I had to adjust my email file size in order to receive/read them. Luckily, I'm using Eudora Pro which allows me to do this very easily. I am only speculating, but I have a feeling some of the Oz books could produce rather lengthy discussions/comments. If this would be too much for you to handle, would you consider asking for volunteers to maintain the separate book postings? Lastly, I hope you will allow enough time for us to obtain the books prior to reading them. I assume they are all available rather easily. Just my 2 cents! Thanks! Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 17:59:49 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Steve: I asked for a copy of the Centennial Contest rules, but I'm not turning in a manuscript. I haven't really had a chance to write one, and my writing style isn't as close to Baum's as the rules suggest, anyway. Jeremy: You may have noticed that I already did a Forbidden Fountain Virus. Our ideas on this one were quite similar. Robin: I would be glad to see my virus descriptions in Oziana. The collection of quizzes also sounds like a good idea. I'd probably get it. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu Kinglet: "By my halidom, churl, you shall either swallow my sceptre or die the death!" Blunderer: "What death?" Kinglet: "The one that makes people dead." (I've been quoting _John Dough_ quite a bit recently, haven't I?) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 23:14:49 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Re: Dave's "Book of Current Focus" (BCF) idea: Dave, an excellent idea!! (Have you ever thought of entering politics?) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:11:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 We really can't expect poor Dave to separate book responses from the main DIGEST. He spends more than two hours each day on it as is. I'm heading out for the Austin book show Sunday morning. Wish me luck! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:17:21 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 VirOzes: I cannot publish any of the viruses if you do not give me specific permission to do so. Even then, there are too many to publish, but I plan to use some from everyone who submitted them and who gave me permission to use their work. So far, that's only John and Dave. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 08:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Dave: Okay! That explains it! Just received the 1/31 & 2/1 Digests this morning. Never received the 1/30 edition. Should have realized AOL was to blame! Craig Noble e-mailed me yesterday, also not receiving them. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:45:33 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Dave: I have not received the 1/30/97 Digest. Until this morning, the last Digest I had received was dated 1/29. This morning I found the 1/31 and 2/1 Digests in my mailbox. And yes, I'm an AOLer. David: From a book collecting point of view, do the IWOC, BoW and Del Rey reprints make the R&L reprints essentially worthless then? Its seems to me they should still be more desireable because: 1) They're hardcover with the original cover art, whereas the Del Rey reprints are paperbound and have new cover art; and 2) They were printed by the original publisher. I do think it's more complicated with the BoW Baum books and any other hardcover reprints with color plates (and BoW's Neil-Snow hardcover reprints) b/c these books look substantially like the first editions (except they're thinner). That's why I have collected all the BoW Baum reprints as well as most of the others. Incidentally, I have not bought BoW's "Sky Island" and "Sea Fairies" -- I saw them at Borders once and was VERY DISAPPOINTED to see that they didn't have color plates. Why in the world they did this I don't know. I like "Sky Island" in particular about as much as any Oz book. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:35:24 -0500 (EST) From: "W. R. Wright" <71763.1616@CompuServe.COM> Subject: oz digest During December there were a lot of posts to the Digest on the subject making a CDROM with Oz books and stuff on it. Assuming there is still interest in this topic, I would like to add my 2 Kroner's worth, since I was not on-line at the time. First, Ken Cope had some very cogent comments regarding the cost and effort to produce a CDROM that people would want to have. I have worked at the Microsoft Interactive Media division, and from that experience plus investigations of my own, his figure of a million bucks is realistic. And that is just to produce the content. The costs of manufacturing, packaging and marketing could easily double that figure. So you have to plan on selling a whole heck of a lot of copies before you embark on such an endeavor. But most folks, I think, had in mind a cdrom that had a lot of Ozzy info on it and the books, but not all the fancy stuff (animation, video, sound, etc) that is needed in a commercially viable product. In that case, the cost would come down considerably. Let's assume that the content can be obtained free (ie, no money involved......still requires a lot of labor). Then the production cost will factor principally on the number copies made per production run. Small quantities are much more expensive per copy than you might think. To get to a reasonable price per copy, 500 is the absolute minimum to consider, in my experience. A thousand copies helps a whole lot to bring the cost per copy down. Someone, I forget just who, mentioned that a full text search engine would not only be desired but a key requirement for most of the people on the digest who have an interest. Just like everything else, the license price per copy is a factor of how many copies you pay for in one chunk. I've looked at Sonar, the lowest cost product with acceptable performance and functionality. Again, you have to get over 500 copies to get any kind of price break, and over a 1000 to get into a relatively reasonable range. Now there are not enough people on this digest to reach that number, even if everyone bought a copy, which is not likely. Of course, some people could buy a number of copies to give away as Christmas presents, etc. But even with this assumption, a thousand is not likely. So the bottom line is that to get to a reasonable price per copy the cdrom needs to be able to sell commercially, at least in some modest quantity. Two years ago I started development of an Oz CDROM. Completed a prototype using some inhouse tools from Microsoft. I never took it to market for several reasons. (1) The cdrom market developed so fast, the cost to have a competitive product was too prohibitive unless the market size was forecast as very large. (2) The market size for an Oz product was forecast just too small. (the ones that are out there now are no longer being made for just this reason) (3) Microsoft abandoned the tools I was using, so I would have had to redevelop the cdrom using a new set of tools. In the process of this development, I created a lot of artwork. To wit: I have some 150 original illustrations from the Wizard of Oz, Denslow's stuff in full color. I also have supplemented these with about 150 new illustrations in Denslow's style. I also have done a few of Neill's illustrations in full color. For my website graphics I used a few of these, but had to significantly reduce the size, resolution, and color ranges to get the images to a small enough size they can load over the internet in a reasonable time. This is not that big a problem on a CDROM; i.e, you can have much large and higher quality images on the CDROM. In content development, artwork is where a lot of the big costs are. Many hours are spent on each illustration to get it done right so it will display properly on the variety of PCs and Macs that are out there. I would have an interest in going ahead and producing a cdrom with all the PD Oz books on it plus Ozzy reference info, if I could be assured of enough sales to cover the production costs (i.e., make and package the disks) . If there is any interest in this topic, we can take it off line and just discuss it via email with those people who are interested in it, and not burden the remainder of the digest members who are not interested. Anyone who would like to talk some more on the subject, please send me an email to piglet@piglet.com. Bill in Ozlo Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:42:55 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz again Hanging Oz T=shirts I managed to fall off the ladder (on the steps, naturally) and smash my right knee. Shortly thereafter, my tingling lower lip erupted into a cold sore. Just wanted to let you all know that I'm not always fat lipped and limping... Sigh And sorry to not keep my political titles straight. I just had a handy USA tapped as first woman to head State." Jane ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Return to Oz At last, _Return to Oz_ has been on home video long enough so that the price has fallen to within my reach ($12.95), and I saw the movie for the first time just the other night. FWIW, my thoughts on it: Right now, I'm kind of ambivalent about it; I can't decide whether or not I _like_ it -- I do, and then again I don't. Oh, well. I believe that I'd have to agree with the apparent consensus that RTO is darker and more somber than we'd like an Oz movie to be and perhaps not suitable for very young children (at least, very young children such as I used to be; as to modern very young children, I wouldn't venture to say). When I tried to analyze why I felt this way, I found there were two primary reasons. (1)At the beginning of the movie, Dorothy is abandoned to the care of strangers by her primary caregivers, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry. This has to be a terrifying prospect for a young child, or even a very old adult, either of whom is relatively helpless without assistance. I did not care for this at all. (2)Though none of the episodes was, in and of itself, any more scary than it would be if Oz and its characters were -- as it were -- real, the succession of fright from beginning to almost the end without respite is kind of overwhelming; not much chance to recover before the next terror. General comments: This is not a reprise of the MGM epic! Though Disney followed some of the conventions of the first movie, anyone going to see this one after having seen only TWOZ would find very little which might match their expectations. Item: characters not in the first movie appearing without introduction. Item: unrelieved menaces -- no songs, no light-heartedness. Item: Those familiar with the books, of course, will be appalled with the mangling, mixing and outright changing of the storyline. This circumstance, I think, is more the artifact of Disney's churning out movies en masse than any conscious desire to contaminate Oz. A lot of their productions seem to take a perfectly good book and distort it beyond all recognition; in this way they are quite egalitarian as far as themes are concerned. One example that I especially disliked was their rendition of _The Puppet Masters_. But RTO does have some redeeming qualities: (1)I think it conveys a sense of the vastness and isolation of the Kansas prairies at the turn of the century better than TWOZ, as well as the innocence and vulnerability of youngsters back then. The Balk Dorothy seems much closer to Baum's depiction than Garland, I thought, although the Balk Dorothy didn't seem to show much spirit or initiative until well into the story. (2)The representation of Tik-Tok I found charming and entirely likeable. About as close to the Neill characterization as you could get without turning to expensive computer animation. I could watch an entire movie about Tik-Tok. (3)General quality of transferring characters from the book to the screen is high. Item: Langwidere/Mombi is quite "realistic" and believable. Item: The Gump himself, perhaps the most contrived character Baum used, even has a bit of personality which could grow on you, more so than the Temple Black try way back when. Jack Pumpkinhead might have stepped out of the book pages just yesterday! The naughty Wheelers! Great -- and I wonder how long those actors had to practice in order to remain upright for more than one second! No wonder they didn't have a very large group in toto (no pun). The Scarecrow -- not a big part, and his face didn't have the mobility of Bolger's, but engaging nonetheless. Plus, (4)After the initial corny introductions I really liked the animations of the Nomes and the Nome King. Original. Effective. Much more "the way it ought to be," maybe, for people who seldom see the sun and quaff molten silver than the Baum/Thompson depictions. Turn of the century miners -- those who survived, at any rate -- really would be "rough" characters, I'd imagine. (5)The big wrap-up bash at the finale. What's an Oz book or movie without a party and everyone invited? Wishes: I wish we'd seen more of Ozma. One of those characters whose presence is not explained until the end, she's not at all like Baum's Ozma. She is physically larger than Dorothy and appears to be older, and looks, in fact, to be just on the threshold of giving Dan a very interesting time. I wish Disney would try another Oz film with story and continuity by someone outside the organization. The RTO effects were great, the organizing of the story not so hot. Well, after getting this down into bytes, I guess I'll have to stick my neck out and say that, in sum, I liked the movie. It's worth watching, but don't expect to see anything like the MGM product, and it will never get a listing in the Oz movie HACC. All IMHO, naturally. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 16:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 1/31 & 2/1/97 I got both the above two today, after not getting the 1/30 Digest at all - I'd appreciate a resend of that one if you'd be so kind, Dave. (Hasn't everyone noticed that the last two Digests are smaller? :-)) 1/31: Jane: I have cable, but my cable network apparently doesn't carry the fX channel. Pity; I'd love to see your segment. Nathan, Gili, Danny: Enjoyed your viruses. Jeremy: Cats can move fast, and 8 mph isn't all that fast. An ordinary cat can't keep up that speed for very long, but a cat can outrun me for a short distance, and I know I can run faster than 8 mph (if not for very long). 8 mph is the equivalent of 100 yards in about 25 sec, which is more of a fast jog than a sprint. (When I was in college a 10-second 100 was about what it took to finish well in an intercollegiate meet.) And Bungle, being made of glass, can keep up her maximum speed indefinitely, unlike an ordinary cat. Bob: >I will swear that I read the same story (cutting off >necks, inverting them and curing them in the sun to heal sore throats) >somewhere else in one of Baum's works, but can't recall where. I don't remember that incident from MMMO anywhere else in Baum, but that may be a faulty memory. Sometimes individual episodes from MO are reprinted elsewhere; you may have seen one of those. Danny: I know that when I first read MERRY-GO-ROUND my reaction was "Georgette Heyer writes an Oz book!" FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN owes even more to Heyer, actually, (primarily the character of Toby), but McGraw acknowledged that she and her daughter were both avid Heyer fans, so I think my judgment was vindicated. As an avid Heyer fan myself, I don't find much difficulty in that aspect of MGR, but can see how it might be a negative for others. Bill: Congratulations on your Web site's high rating! I'll have to check out the Net Guide writeup when I log back on. Dave: Sounds as if Delphi has encountered AOL's problem... (And Compu$erve probably would, too, if they added half a million subscribers in a month.) 2/1: Steve: >BTW Scott, be careful, some of the Centennial Book Contest judges are on >the digest. Yeah, that's why I suddenly realized that I'd have to submit PROFESSOR WOGGLE-BUG OF OZ under a different title to preserve anonymity. At least I've never said anything about my plot, or even what other characters would be involved. (I suspect that you and Robin will probably recognize my book by my style anyhow, but at least you won't know Fer Sher.) Unless the 25-page MS is in teeny-tiny type and the 250+-pager is in Big Type, neither of those meets the guideline of 50-60,000 words. How strict -are- those guidelines? Would, say, a 45,000 word MS be ruled out without regard to quality? (Even though that's longer than some of the FF?) I ask because frankly, I think I'm going to have to pad to get to 50,000 words. I trust I can make it interesting padding (like, say, the adventure in the Valley of Voe in DOTWIZ), but I'd just as soon stick closer to the main plot. Nathan: Using Pastoria is clearly OK, since he's mentioned by Baum. Making him a tailo r is iffier, but probably OK as long as you don't refer to anything specific that's in LOST KING. (And for the Centennial book, even that would be OK legally, though how the judges would react is a separate issue.) Peter, as you say, is off limits for the Centennial book unless one can get Dorothy Maryott's permission. Robin: I'd certainly be interested in a compilation of BUGLE quizzes. Do you have any idea how many there have been, and how long such a publication would be? Dave: I'm reading WIZARD for my "bedtime story" now, and should finish it well within the week. Then I'll move on to LAND. I already have some comments that I need to note down (mostly, to be sure, with reference to what's going to happen in future books - I can't think of a thing to say about WIZARD as a stand-alone book that someone hasn't already said somewhere, but that's unique to this one Oz book and no others). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 03:24:16 -0500 From: 76152.3120@compuserve.com Subject: Quote from book To: DaveH47@delphi.com Hi Dave, I hope that you can help me. I'm trying to find out which Oz book contains a few lines that I believe were said by Glinda to Dorothy. The gist of what she said was that Dorothy didn't need any helpers or magic anymore because she had always had the power inside herself. This very much applies to my daughter at the moment and I would like to send the exact quote to her. I reread the Wizard of Oz, thinking to find it there, but didn't have any luck. Hope this rings a bell with you. Thanks alot, Marjan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:43:36 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Help? To: "'John081@aol.com'" Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Offhand I don't know of a source, but I'm forwarding your question to the Ozzy Digest in case someone there can help. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: John081@aol.com [SMTP:John081@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 1997 6:45 PM To: oztp@neosoft.com Subject: Help? Hello, Is there anywhere I can get some Clipart of "The Wizard Of Oz"? Can't find any, Would appreicate the help ...:) thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 14:05:20 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: How long would you like me to give you all to read _Wizard_ before we commence the discussion? As I said, I'm not willling to give it a separate Digest, but maybe I can figure out a plausible way to give the Digest a Table of Contents... BOOK CONTEST: I, too, would be interested in exactly how stringent the rules of the Contest are, including exactly what "Baum's concept of Oz" means...Does it mean that it must just be essentially Baum's Oz, with Ozma queen of a utopian fairyland, etc.; or does it mean that it must be a "Baum clone", down to mimiking Baum's writing style? AOL: Well, it looks as though the AOLers missed the 1/30 Digest, so I will resend it... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 3 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:47:19 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Warren: I saw "Return to Oz" several years ago. I agree that many of the characters were well-done. On the negative side, the Gump may have looked a little too much like a moose, and the Nomes were too big, and looked like they were made of stone. I agree that the film-makers tampered quite a bit with the story (Langwidere and Mombi are completely different characters), but this is usually done in transition from book to film. I liked the movie when I saw it, but this was before I had read any of the books, so I might have to see it again, and see how I feel about it now that I am a Oz fanatic. As for Ozma being older than Dorothy, she is described this way in the books. In _Tin Woodman_, I believe this was specifically mentioned. I don't exactly recall where I read it, but someone once thought that Ozma was about fifteen years old (in appearance). Marjan: That quote might have been from the MGM movie, rather than one of the Oz books. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html "What's life without a few risks?" -Fanny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:01:28 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Craig: I am looking to put together a set of post-1935 b&w color cover "reading" copies for when my son is old enough to start the books (if anyone else can help, please let me know). I realize that modern reprints are available, but some of us still prefer the more "classic" copies. Please email me privately re: Speedy at JoelHarris@aol.com. Robin: I've always wondering how the club gets so much auction material. I, for one, would enjoy hearing any tips or good stories about acquisitions. Do we contact you about items for sale? Jane: Alla Ford's daughter ran an ad in the Trading Post about 1-1.5 years ago to sell her mother's collection. I spoke with her and was told that only newer and foreign material were still available, and she would send a listing once completed (which, I guess, has never been completed). I looked but could not find her address or phone number, but will continue to look. You might want to ask the IWOC for info. I did find something else interesting, which is noted in my comments below. Everyone: (1) Following in Craig's footsteps, I have a duplicate 3rd State of Master Key after upgrading at PBA. Any interest? (2) The 30th California International Antiquarian Book Fair will be in SF Feb. 21-23. I may be able to get free ticket(s) - a $10 value on Friday! Let me know if anyone is interested. If possible, I will post a report on Friday night, and will note any deals still to be had. (3) In searching for info about Alla T. Ford's daughter, I found my very first Herm Bieber book catalog. It is #25. I can only imagine the deals available in earlier catalogs. If you have not seen an old Herm catalog, perhaps Herm has some available, or would post some highlights of past listings (such as Wonderful Wizard 1st editions from $400-$500; Baum 1st's in DJ $300-$500; and many very reasonably priced 1st and later editions). I credit Herm for many of the books in my collection, and found there to be nobody more reasonable and honest in the profession. Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:17:47 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Dave: I don't when this will get posted if you're still having problems getting the Digest out. But for what it's worth, I DID get today's Digest on time. Gordon: I was going through some old e-mail and realized that you're the "someone" who saw my post on the rec.arts.childrens.books newsgroup and referred me to the Ozzy Digest. Many thanks. I'm sorry I didn't give you credit earlier when I responded to the poll. I've enjoyed the Digest immensely. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 07:25:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Value of R&L reprints: I don't think the IWOC and BOW reprints have significantly affected the value of R&L reprints. Herm? Jane: Limping, fat-lipped and all, I'll bet you did a "bang up" job! BUGLE QUIZZES: Dunno how many there are. 20 something? I started being involved with them in the mid '70s when Jim Haff, The Quizzard of Oz, was doing them...and he'd been doing them for quite some time, I believe. I can find out. Centennial Book Rules: My suggestion is that you stick to them, length and all, as best you can. And no, it doesn't have to be a Baum clone...just a worthy successor to Baum and true to his vision. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:26:40 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 References: <01IEY7A0YS2Q9EF4TH@delphi.com> > David: > > >From a book collecting point of view, do the IWOC, BoW and Del Rey reprints > make the R&L reprints essentially worthless then? Its seems to me they > should still be more desireable because: 1) They're hardcover with the > original cover art, whereas the Del Rey reprints are paperbound and have new > cover art; and 2) They were printed by the original publisher. > The R & L reprints are ar from worthless. You should see the prices some book sellers (not those on the digest ask for them! > Incidentally, I have not bought BoW's "Sky Island" and "Sea Fairies" -- I saw > them at Borders once and was VERY DISAPPOINTED to see that they didn't have > color plates. Why in the world they did this I don't know. I like "Sky > Island" in particular about as much as any Oz book. > > -- Craig The reason BoW did not include color plates in these books is simple: cost. Their Oz Book reprints were made in collaboration with William Morrow books, and they had a more certain audience. SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND were published by BoW alone, making available books that had been out of print since R&L's "Borderland of OZ" white cover editions, which were also in B&W. > From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) > Subject: Return to Oz > Item: unrelieved menaces -- no songs, no light-heartedness. > But RTO does have some redeeming qualities: > (5)The big wrap-up bash at the finale. What's an Oz book or movie > without a party and everyone invited? > I wish we'd seen more of Ozma. I believe these points are related. RETURN TO OZ leads to the great party scene at the end, but the joyous section seems too short. It requires a VCR with clear stop action to perceive all the Ozzy characters who appear briefly in the crowd scene. These include Tommy Quikstep, the Frogman, the Patchwork Girl, Polychrome, the Bumpy Man, and the Braided Man, and others. None of these are introduced, they just appear in the crowd. Ozma's materialization comes very suddenly. The Jane Vinge novelization, which came out at the same time as the movie, extends this scene, with the crown being offered to the Scarecrow first, and then Dorothy, who wishes she could be ion two places at once. Then, Ozma comes through the mirror (shades of THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW, or MAGICAL MIMICS). I believe the party scene was originally intended to be much longer and was cut to shorten the movie. > Well, after getting this down into bytes, I guess I'll have to stick my > neck out and say that, in sum, I liked the movie. It's worth watching, > but don't expect to see anything like the MGM product, and it will never > get a listing in the Oz movie HACC. > All IMHO, naturally. > It is really more HACC than the MGM Film > 2/1: > Steve: > > Unless the 25-page MS is in teeny-tiny type and the 250+-pager is in Big > Type, neither of those meets the guideline of 50-60,000 words. The short one certainly doesn't. In the case of the other, it would depend on the quality. > How strict -are- those guidelines? Would, say, a 45,000 word MS be ruled out without > regard to quality? (Even though that's longer than some of the FF?) I ask > because frankly, I think I'm going to have to pad to get to 50,000 words. Speaking for myself: I will not rule out a MS that is slightly shorter than 50,000 words. (I don't count the words.) We don't want WAR AND PEACE or D?ICK AND JANE. > BOOK CONTEST: > I, too, would be interested in exactly how stringent the rules of the > Contest are, including exactly what "Baum's concept of Oz" means...Does > it mean that it must just be essentially Baum's Oz, with Ozma queen of a > utopian fairyland, etc.; or does it mean that it must be a "Baum clone", down > to mimiking Baum's writing style? > -- Dave This is to discourage writing that is either highly heretical (like WICKED or BARNSTORMER) or based on the MGM conception (like DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ or THE LIZARD OF OZ). It should be faithful *in spirit* to the Baum Oz books. I hope AOL has straightened things out so the digest can return to normal. BCF: The 1st edition of WONDERFUL WIZARD was printed by George M. Hill, with Baum and Denslow underwriting the costs of production with proceeds from their previous best-seller, FATHER GOOSE: HIS BOOK. It comes in several states, all of which had 24 colored plates. There were monochrome color illustrations on the text pages of the book, and the colors of these pictures changed with the color of the country the story took place in. Gray in Kansas, blue in the Munchkin Country, green in the Emerald City etc. The BoW reprint reproduces these characteristics. The second edition, published by Bobbs-Merrill. originally called THE NEW WIZARD OF OZ had a new cover and dropped 9 of the colore plates. The third edition (1913) was from Donohue. Bobbs-Merrill was again the publisher for the fourth and later editions (except for the WADDLE BOOK) until 1956 when Reilly & Lee published it for the first time. There have been numerous adaptations, abridgements, etc. A long bibliographic entry can be found in BIBLIOGRAPHIA OZIANA revised edition (1988) 24-45. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:08:21 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 1/30 & 2/2/97 Finally got the 1/30 Digest, either re-sent or after it kicked around on the Net for several days. 1/30: Gordon: Yes, my ratings of the books apply solely to the text. ROAD, for instance, which I rate near the bottom, has the best art of any of the FF imho. And MAGICAL MIMICS, which I rate fairly high, has some of the worst. Jeremy: You're at college in Rome? I lived there a couple of years when I was little, though I don't remember much about it except the houses we lived in. (Moved there in August '39 and away in May '41.) Ken S.: That Bungle would have doubled the straight-line distance from the Magic Isle to the EC is only a guess, but I'm reasonably sure that it would be substantially more. Landscapes are basically fractal in nature, which means that to a first approximation the distance traveled between two points by something that's bound to the ground is inversely proportional to the size of what's doing the traveling. 50 miles on an air line probably translates to 55-60 miles for a human on foot, but I'd guess at least twice that for a cat. As for frictional heating, I think we have to assume that the Powder of Life reduces the internal friction in Bungle's glass to a low enough level that there's no significant heating effect (without that, Bungle could hardly move at all, since glass won't bend very far without breaking). External heating from air friction would be negligible at speeds like 8 mph - in fact, moving at that speed would probably do more cooling from convection than heating from friction. I think you'll find that when your cat is motivated to move fast, she'll take a stride much more than 3 inches. When cats run, they bend their bodies in the middle to increase the reach of their limbs; typically the hind legs will be planted in front of the shoulders and then kicked out far to the rear as the body straightens. I suspect you'd find that the hind legs of a running cat the size of yours will land close to 2 feet apart. Let's be conservative and say 18 inches. And they're probably taking around 4 strides a second. So that's 6 feet per second, which is about 4 mph. Obviously I'm wrong in some of my assumptions - either they take longer strides or more strides per second or both - because 4 mph is a normal walking pace for a human, and I know perfectly well that a running cat can move a lot faster than I can walk. Faster than I can run, for that matter. Craig: If someone wants to set up and run an Oz chat on AOL, I'll participate if I can remember it's happening. I've never tried hosting a chat, so I don't want to do that, but I've participated in a few over in the Mystery group. 2/2: Jim R.: All the Baum Oz books are easily available in PB - you should find them in the SF section of any decent bookstore. After that it gets somewhat more difficult - the early Thompsons have to be ordered from the IWOC or found used from a dealer - but we won't reach that point for a while. Anyone who wants to participate in the discussions and doesn't have the books should probably set about acquiring them soon. And as we've said in the Digest recently, it's not too soon even now to start finding the four mid-period Thompsons (YELLOW KNIGHT, PIRATES, PURPLE PRINCE, and OJO) that can only be had used at this point. Craig: The value of a particular edition of a book is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. The Del Rey paperbacks clearly don't have much effect on the value of the R&L reprint editions, but in my opinion the IWOC hardcovers of SPEEDY and WISHING HORSE, with dust jackets and color plates, on considerably better paper and with better bindings than R&L ever used, should be worth more than R&L reprints without color plates. YMMV. As for the BoW reprints of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND, I too was disappointed that they didn't reprint the color plates. I've no idea why; if Peter Glassman reads this, maybe he can tell us. (Obviously it would be more expensive; it may be that BoW didn't think there'd be enough of a market for full-blown facsimile editions of those books, since they're not "Oz". Or it may be that the facsimile Baum books are only possible because of Morrow's backing, and Morrow wasn't interested in backing the non-Oz books.) Warren: Actually, if you read the description of the Nomes in the text of OZMA, the claymation figures from RTO fit it very well. Marjan: I don't remember any quote in the books from Glinda to Dorothy like the one you mention. The closest one I can think of is in GLINDA, where Dorothy says to Ozma, "...I can't do any magic at all, an' so I can't figure out e'zactly how you an' Glinda an' the Wizard do it." "Don't try," laughed Ozma. "But you have at least one magical art, Dorothy: you know the trick of winning all hearts." "No, I don't," said Dorothy earnestly. "If I really can do it, Ozma, I am sure I don't know _how_ I do it." Jim v N: I've E-mailed John081 directly, but for future reference there's a lot of Oz clip art from the books on a CD-ROM set called ART EXPLOSION 40,000, which is available from most of the mail-order software houses. Dave: I can't imagine that the IWOC is expecting anyone to try to imitate Baum's writing style; it's very difficult to mimic someone else's style for a whole book, and this is especially true of a writer like Baum who doesn't have a very pronounced style to start with. I wouldn't think one would need to get closer to his style than Thompson or Snow did. (Closer than Neill, Cosgrove, or McGraw would probably be good, though.) David Hulan ====================================================================== ===================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 3 - 4, 1997 (Part 2) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:21:42 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Jane Dave; I received the 1/30 and 2/2 Digests today, along with your "May Day" message, so things appear to be ok now. I watched and taped the "Personal FX" show this afternoon, and Jane did a very fine job. (The injuries she mentioned were not visable) Her collection is fantastic, to put it mildly!! Due to time constrictions, we didn't get to see all she wanted us to, I'm sure, but the video did give an idea of the vastness of it. Most impressive, and I am most envious of her. If anyone who does not get the FX channel, or who does but was unable to= tape the show, would like a copy, they can e-mail me privately. Dick (dixnam@aol.com) ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:29:48 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Everybody: Sorry, got tied up in schoolwork yesterday, so am responding to two days' worth of Digests: Nathan: Sorry--I didn't mean to take your water away from you. Isn't John Dough (which you've been quoting quite a bit recently, by your own admission) the place where deer go to the bathroom? (Sorry--had to say that.) Robin: As I said yesterday (or sometime), use any of my virOzes you want to--they're catchy, in my opinion. Dave: I received your "May Day" message with distress (no pun intended). I personally have received every Digest you've sent since November 4th, and I hope you're not serious about suspending it. Msy the Digest really never end, Jeremy Steadman P.S. Please e-mail me explicating your reasons, if you don't mind; sorry. ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:30:10 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz post Digesters interested in the Centennial contest. We did NOT mean to be designing stringent rules at all and were simply trying to eliminate the "Wicked" and "Silly Ozbul" type of manuscript from being submitted. If you understand what an Oz book is (and I'm sure all digesterd do), and have written one, you'll be fine. I wouldn't encourage you to pad for length -- just don't want a 100-word picture book to be submitted. And as to "Baum's Oz" we just don't want someone who's seen the movie dreaming up another "Wicked." We want a book designed to please a child. Keep in mind that we publicized the contest outside the Club with various writer's organizations and publications. Know telling how many Ruby Slipper and rainbow filled manuscripts we might have had to plow though if we didn't try to spell it out. And speaking of "Wicked," darned if the studio folks on Personal fX didn't= go and make me think on my feet with a question (that we had NOT discussed before going on air) that pushed me practically into talking about it. Bother. And to think I could have been saying something of interest with that time. Before going live they also had asked about my jointed paper Scarecrow, so I figured they knew something about him. Another precious handful of seconds melting right into the carpet as they droned on and on saying nothing. It could have been worse, however -- no one asked me about hanging Munchkins or Shriley-Temple-as-Dorothy (though I was prepared to mention Mary Pickford, Helen Hays, Marcia Mae Jones, Deana Durbin, etc. of they did.) So what did those of you who saw the spot think? Other than that I looked like a nervous wreck, I mean? I was shooting for making it as informative as I could vs. "I got this at such-and-such a flea market for $7" that is what seems to be on there most days. Oh and no, I don't usually cover= walls with T-Shirts and beach towels, set up displays in the hall or block the bathroom door with a giant poster. Tuesday's (not-Oz) show will include my friend Rhonda She's going to offer= on air that Banner Elk Oz theme park plate that sold for a fortune at the Ozmopolitan convention. Jane ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:33:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Okay, how do I do this? The story needed a boy who had been to Oz but had not, to anyone's knowledge, returned. The book is nearly done, and I think it could well blow the competition away as a serious piece of literature. Since Peter often acts as a foil for Tip, and his part in the story cannot be excised, what do I do? I can't just scrap it. This issue has been pretty tough, since I didn't know what to do. Baum's only American boy was Button-Bright, and he was not very bright, but the manuscript calls for all of the characters to be vey bright in order to be accepted into a group of intellectuals at the point where I am now. Other than using his name and mentioning he likes baseball, the only reference to what he did before is when Tip says "So you're the one who dumbfounded the Nome King?" It says he tells them of his adventures in Oz, but does not say what they are. So please, Bill, if you have some advice, help! It is truly a fine manuscript, that I have worked on since 1994. I had to work very hard to keep out copyrighted characters, but Peter kind of slipped in. Also, if I call a minor character Daisy Bunsen, as in Tisha Campbell's character in the obscure Oz film, _The Magnificent Major_, would I be in trouble? How about the character Thelonius Spetnek, who is blantantly based on Nipsey Russell's _Wiz_ performance, but retooled to my liking (in personality and appearance), given a new name, no Teeny references, etc.? ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 17:14:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: another Oz post A great public serivce that would help educate people about the real Oz, would be to make Oz art -- Denslow, Neill, whatever is public domain -- available on a web site so people could download it. I've had everyone from the local paper to the Rotarians ask me where thay can get Oz art to illustrate feature stories. I don't belive the IWOC site has the capacity= to handle it -- though it could be linked. I know Jim gets e-mail asking for art regularly (in fact, he posted on such request in a Digest I just read). While Bill has gone to a heck a lot of work and wouldn't have much pay off in $$$, it would sure give graphic designers something to work with, and could show product designers what public domain material looks like. Along that line, isn't it weird how they'll make Dorothy with silver shoes, then still give the other characters the Frank Morgan tokens -- dipolma, ticking heart/clock, badge. Jane ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:41:39 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 My Oz book is not a Baum clone, but it's much closer in style to Baum's books than Thompson's, as many recent Oz writings tend to be. Here it's played totally straight-faced. I don't think I mentioned the title, which is really, really important, since it can be interepted multiple ways. The rough draft is mostly written and I hate to be written out over contest rules. The rule sheet does not say only Baum characters may be used, in addition to ones own, it says "any Baum characters from the Wizard of Oz books (plus the author's own characters, of course) as long as they follow the rules." Although that may be implied, it isn't there. By the way, when it comes to "standard English usage of grammar, spelling, and punctuation," that only applies to narration, right? I made the dialogue naturalistic, often with improper grammar or dialectical spellings. This is all stuff I wanted to say in advance, anyway. Now I don't have to include an anonymous note to the judges accompanying the manuscript explaining certain techniques I used. The plot, save for the one incident and a couple of characters mentioned before, is tightly wrapped up, but I will hint that I hope any conflict with Melody Grandy's _The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_ will not make the manuscript lose, since another story could probably resolve it anyway. Scott ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:43:50 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Does anyone know what this Oz/Glinda computer language is all about? ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:49:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-01-97 Has anyone seen the Shirley Temple Land of Oz? What does Norman Leavitt's Repairman character have to do with the plot? Also has anyone heard Tom Lehrer insulting _The Wizard of Oz_? He does this on two of his three albums, and he means the book. I want to see _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ so badly, hopefully before I have to finish my novel. Can anyone send me a copy? ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:56:13 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Reviews Here are a couple of reviews that I meant to include in my last Digest posting, but forgot. One is my review of KALIKO IN OZ, which I just got from Buckethead and read. The other is a review of GLASS CAT that appeared in DRAGON MAGAZINE recently; it was so glowing that I had to share it. I have= no idea who wrote it; does anyone here know? (It's also a very good ad for Oz= in general in a place where Oz may not be very well known.) ************** KALIKO IN OZ, by K. Kline, illustrated by Michael Goldmann. This is a pretty good, if short, story, marred by illustrations and typography that should be a lot better to match the writing. Kaliko is well-characterized, and there's a lot of amusing tension as he travels with a rather engaging animated egg= (a relative of Humpty Dumpty's). There's a suitably nasty villainess (with the inexplicable name of Bel-Sor-t), not to mention a tiger who was a servant of the Wicked Witch of the West. Occasionally characters seem to speak out of character (I have a hard time imagining Kaliko saying, "It's a deal," for instance), and Scraps's verse isn't very good, but by and large the writing is smooth and the story flows well. Michael Goldmann, however, is not a professional-class illustrator. On the cover, for instance, Kaliko appears to have two right hands. There's an inexplicable frontispiece showing Kabumpo, Wag, and Peg Amy (still in doll form); none of them appear in the book. And in general the drawing is rather crude. Some of his ideas are interestingly different (Jellia Jamb in a low-cut, mini-skirted costume like that of a maid in a French bedroom farce, for instance), but his execution doesn't really do them justice. The main text font appears to be a demi-bold face that's really too heavy= for extensive text; there's more leading than it needs, and the margins are too narrow. If the whole book were set in the typeface and leading used in the "Attention All Scholars of Oz History" note at the end, with about 1/8"= extra margins on the sides, the whole book would look better and feel more comfortable to read. I give this one three stars for Kline's story, but only two for the illustrations and packaging. ********************** The Glass Cat of Oz David Hulan Emerald City Press $9.95 Before the Forgotten Realms setting, before Conan's Hyperborea, before Middle-earth itself, there was Oz. Though L. Frank Baum's famous stories aren't often mentioned in role-playing circles, the world of Dorothy, Toto, Princess Ozma and their compatriots is in many respects a direct ancestor of our modern adventuring milieus. And even less well known is the fact that a brand new series of Oz stories - David Hulan's _The Glass Cat of Oz_ among them - has appeared in recent years, carrying on Baum's legends in classic style. Hulan's story features a number of characters whom Oz fans will recallfondly from the original books. In addition to the Glass Cat, featured roles go to such well-remembered folk as Button-Bright, Trot and Cap'n Bill, and the Hungry Tiger. The plot also draws on well-established Oz lore, involving a scheme to overthrow the remote country of Oogaboo using weapons picked from its gun tree. Impressively, even the more obscure references and cast members are handled with accuracy and respect; there are no off-key bobbles to detract from the characterizations. But Hulan isn't merely rehashing old material. While all this is going on, he also introduces present-day youngsters Barry and Becky Klein, who find a genie's bottle on a California beach. Barry, it turns out, has read all the original Oz books (and enough other useful literature to sidestep the usual problems with genies and wishes). He and Becky are promptly transported to Oz and provided with a useful bit of magic, which they use to covertly attach themselves to the party dispatched to deal with affairs in Oogaboo. Hulan handles the combination of old friends and modern ideas in smooth and entertaining fashion; Trot relies on magical aid to save herself from one difficult situation, while Becky cheerfully demonstrates the uses of karate and threatens to start a fashion revolution when she realizes that girls in Oz haven't discovered blue jeans. The result is a lively and eminently likeable tale that brings the world of Oz firmly and agreeably into the 1990s. While _The Glass Cat of Oz_ is fairly short compared to Baum's original books, it's no less entertaining, and artist George O'Connor provides a lavish suite of illustrations in the style to which Oz fans have long been accustomed. Those who remember the original Oz books with pleasure should find David Hulan's tale a welcome addition to the canon, while those for whom Oz is a new discovery should find the volume a pleasant window into L. Frank Baum's world. The chief difficulty may lie in actually laying hands on this or other new volumes in the series; those who can't persuade a local bookseller to track down copies can contact the publisher at: Emerald City Press Books of Wonder 132 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10011 **************** ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:05:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest - if deliverable again? David Hulan: I expect you're right that the myth that reading ruins the eyes comes partly from the number of near-sighted kids who turn to reading as a doable activity. I suspect also it comes from later in lives, from people liked to read in the first place and notice it when they can't do it anymore without reading glasses =FE the people who didn't like to read and were likely to have given up trying (or people who hadn't learned) did not notice the change when they lost the close-up vision they hadn't been using. (Or, if they'd been using it, then they would blame the "ruin" on "sewing too much," or whatever it had been.) Dave Hardenbrook: Did you know, by the way, that I met your father (we'd corresponded off and on, but hadn't actually met) year before last when he was here for a Sherlockian meeting? Melody Grandy: Yes, de Camp's joke about Ariosto's heroes and their "light-hearted way of trying to rape the heroines" is offensive. I suspect he may not have received much mail about it, though. He's kind of old-and-sot-in-his-ways for it to be a good investment of energy. (Besides, I'd rather argue with people whose work I like less =FE unless it was= someone I knew so well that my name would carry some force.) Craig Noble: The R&L reprints are better than Del Rey (because larger size) in reproducing the artwork. All of the later reprints are poorer than the early editions on art (fine shadings go to smudge) -- except, of course, the BoW "Wizard" compared to early-but-not-Hill editions. When Denslow's drawings in color were done over (not by Denslow himself, I would guess) to print in b&w, they lost much of their grace. I would assume that BoW left out the "Sky Island" and "Sea Fairies" color plates because they didn't think the books would sell as well as the Oz books and wouldn't sell enough to make back the expense if done with color. Warren Baldwin: I also bought a copy of the "Return to Oz" video recently. My reactions were similar to yours in thinking that there was a lot about it that was delightful (especially in the treatment of Tik-Tok, Jack, and the Gump), but thinking that it spent far too much time being horrific to work as something that overall was not a horror movie. Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:15:18 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Marjan: The quote does ring a bell and it may have come from _Glinda_. --Tyler ======================================================================== Date: 00:36:00 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things E-MAIL PROBLEMS - CURIOUSER AND CURIOUSER: Well, I got so many messages saying "I got the Digests okay" that I'm going to keep sending it out, and send out the Digest secondarily to those who missed it...Funny thing is, my "May Day" message was bounced by Compuserve, MSN, and Netcom, for ALL Digest members on those servers!!! Go figure. Anyway, this promises to be anxiety-filled week for me... :( TO RUTH: Was that Don Hardenbrook? If so, he's my uncle. ( My dad likes Sherlock Holmes, but not enough to belong to the society... :) ) THE "SLINKY JELLIA"??? :) Jellia in a low-cut, mini-skirted costume? Well I'm in favor of course. :) :) :) I'm wondering, though, how much his Jellia in *characterization* matches an impish, mischeivous maid of French farce such as Toinette of Moliere's _Imaginary Invalid_; because I think in the early Baum years Jellia displayed the same sort of personality, which I've tried to enhance in my own writing... And speaking of _Glass Cat_ and depictions of the Oz gals, is it my imagination or does George O'Connor's Ozma bear an uncanny resemblence to Gene Tierney? Could it be deliberate?? BOOK CONTEST: Thanks for everyone's clarification messages on the Contest rules,= especially Jane's! (I'm so sorry about your injuries! I hope you're better soon!) Sorry to split today's Digest into two parts...Eudora's 32K limit... -- Dave ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 5 - 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:37:44 -0500 (EST) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) Ok, everyone, some questions: Does anyone know where to find classic Neill or Denslow art on the Internet? Does anyone know of any Oz computer programs (shareware or commercial), besides the rather disappointing Legends of Oz, available? Can anyone give me some information on the following Oz films/tv programs: The Magic Cloak of Oz, His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz, Shirley Temple's Land of Oz, The Wonderful Land of Oz, The Wizard of the Emerald City. Does anyone have ideas on how to make a good Tin Woodman marionette that closely resembles the Denslow or Neill illustrations? Thanks. Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:12:12 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 1) Joel: I e-mailed you privately about "Speedy." I'm glad you raised the point about reading Oz to your child. I don't have kids yet, but I know I'll want to read the Oz books to them when I do. This raises the possible problem of fragile, valuable books being handled by young children. I assume that's why you're building a second collection. What have other Digesters done? -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 1) Nathan: I just found your web page, and I must admit I'm somewhat impressed Interestingly enough, my favorite food is also spaghetti, we're just about the same age (I was born in February of 1977), I also enjoy Oz books (obviously), and I love cats too, although I'm an arts-and-languages type of person, my eye color is brown and my hair color blue (whoops--make that red), I also enjoy music, although I prefer classical and folk (I don't know who "Weird Al" is, for example). By the way, I tried to e-mail you through the web page (where it said I could), and I don't think I succeeded. Of course, if you got two identical e-mail messages from me (the bulk of which I included above), then I obviously succeeded. I was visitor 98, if that makes any difference. David XOE (Hulan?): You lived in Rome, GA? Quelle coincidence! Out of curiosity, where do you live now? Dave: I'm much relieved to see that the Digest has persevered through our problems. I think we're better off that way, AOL things considered. (My psychology teacher has given my fellow classmates permission to hit me when I do that kind of thing. Luckily, no one's tried it yet.) Until next time, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:57:44 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest Jane.........ref your question about making Oz artwork available for download from the net without financial consideration (free....:-). I have had a number of people who have asked by email if they may do just that. And my answer is yes, if it is not used for resale, ie, included in a product that is then sold. For those who would like to use any of the Oz graphics from my website in their website, or to illustrate some article, etc, they may do so if: (1) they ask first (2) acknowledge the source. Hope this helps. Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:12:36 +0100 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest Jeremy: Ref your question >Bill of Ozlo: >I'm having trouble finding your website. Can you clarify how to go >about it? The url for the home page is http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/ From the menu on the home page you can access about a thousand pages of Ozzy information, plus the online books. Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:01:12 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 No problem with the Digest today. I got a second copy of the 1/30 Digest; did you re-send it twice, or was one of the ones I got the original? Nathan: I enjoyed RETURN TO OZ a lot when I saw it in a theater, and have watched a tape of it 3-4 times since. I didn't like the introductory part very much, but once Ozma turned up in Kansas, it took off and I was hooked. Fairuza Balk was much more like the books' Dorothy than Judy Garland ever was, and all the Oz characters (except Mombi/Langwidere - who didn't resemble either Baum character; she was more like Mrs. Yoop than anyone else in the books) seemed true to the book versions. It was darker than the Oz books, with little if any humor, but then aside from some silly puns by the Scarecrow there isn't much humor in OZMA, either, and that's the book it resembles most. In TIN WOODMAN Baum says that Ozma appears about 14 or 15, and Dorothy "much younger". OTOH, in the very next book, MAGIC, he says that when you saw Dorothy, Betsy, Trot, and Ozma together they all appeared "about of an age." So I think making Ozma appear anywhere between about 10 and 15 can be justified. (Or a bit older if the book is set later than Baum's time.) Robin: Maybe the IWOC and BoW reprints only affected the value -I- place on R&L reprints. I know I gave away my 1940s-vintage reprint copy of SPEEDY when I got my IWOC reprint. I keep the copies of books I had when I was a kid, but that SPEEDY was one I'd picked up used in the late '70s, so I didn't have any attachment to it. (I'd owned a copy of SPEEDY as a kid, but it got destroyed in a flood at my parents' house before I'd rescued the books of my youth from their not-very-careful stewardship. My copies of WIZARD and MAGICAL MIMICS also suffered some damage, along with many of my Burroughs and Howard titles, but SPEEDY was on the bottom and the only one that was unreadable.) When BoW brings out RINKITINK I have a pretty good copy with all but one of the color plates that I'll donate to an IWOC auction. Steve: I agree that RTO is more nearly HACC than the MGM movie. >I hope AOL has straightened things out so the digest can return to >normal. It doesn't look to me like the Digest's main problem was with AOL. At least, people on other services were also having problems getting the Digests over the last few days, and Dave's May Day! message made it to AOL people and not to those on several other services. Jane: I'm getting contradictory messages from you and from Robin on length. Who's in charge? Do I pad or not? (If necessary, of course. Since I haven't finished the MS yet, I'm not sure how long it will end up without padding.) Scott: >Okay, how do I do this? The story needed a boy who had been to Oz but >had not, to anyone's knowledge, returned. Why not Zeb Hugson? I think he's a much better character than Peter Brown, anyhow. (So why am I helping the competition? ;-)) Dave: Jellia has a very minor role in KALIKO; she isn't characterized to any significant extent in the text. You'd have to ask George O'Connor as to whether he had a model in mind for his Ozma. She definitely looks like some 1940ish actress; I think I remember someone mentioning Merle Oberon once, but it might have been Tierney (and it might have been you mentioning it, for that matter). I don't really remember what either of those ladies looked like. Speaking for myself, I prefer a 2-part Digest to having to download a file and read it with a word processor. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) In regards to the Return to Oz characterizations of the Nomes, where did it say they were actually slinking around in the rocks, actually made of malleable rocks? I don't nemember this. The Nome King was described (by Dorothy!) as looking like Santa Claus, not gradually growing humanlike out of stone. At any rate, having been familiar with the books before I saw the MGM movie, (and I'm only 21!) I'm not sure which of these films I prefer, but that's just my opinion anyway. My favorite Oz film is The John Clark Donahue-John Driver TV stage play, _L. Frank Baum's The Marvelous Land of Oz_ (1981). I think it's funny all these reviews of the book where Oz girls haven't discovered blue jeans. In my novel they have, just not in places like the Emerald City and stuff, off the way places where they have undisclosed contact with the rest of the world. Also, about MGM references in the novel, Ruby Slippers can be mentioned in the context of the film, can't they? My Oz characters have seen many of the films, and sometimes talk about them, and Nikidik says he's known as Lord Nikidik to Shirley Temple, and Tip asks Polychrome if she started the rumor that "Over the Rainbow" was the Oz national anthem (that's from the disney record). She has no idea what he is talking about. I really hope I'm not saying too much for you judges, but I've worked so long and hard on this thing I don't want it to be automatically scrapped. Besides, I probably have the only manuscript that mentions the Lonesome Zoop! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:07:31 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) References: <01IF066TVEGY9D5XF7@delphi.com> > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > > Okay, how do I do this? The story needed a boy who had been to Oz but > had not, to anyone's knowledge, returned. The obvious choice is Dorothy's cousin Zeb, from DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 > > By the way, when it comes to "standard English usage of grammar, > spelling, and punctuation," that only applies to narration, right? I > made the dialogue naturalistic, often with improper grammar or > dialectical spellings. This is all stuff I wanted to say in advance, > anyway. Dialect for characters is acceptable; after all, Baum gave Dorothy a terrible childish dialect in OZMA and later. > I will hint that I hope any conflict > with Melody Grandy's _The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_ will not make the > manuscript lose, since another story could probably resolve it anyway. > > Scott > Don't worry about *that.* The book must be faithful to Baum, not necessarily to all the non-cannocical writings, no matter how good they may be. Jack Snow completely ignored the books of Thompson and Neill when he came to write MAGICAL MIMICS. > Has anyone seen the Shirley Temple Land of Oz? What does Norman > Leavitt's Repairman character have to do with the plot? Also has anyone > heard Tom Lehrer insulting _The Wizard of Oz_? He does this on two of > his three albums, and he means the book. In the song "Smut" he says: "I can tell you things about "Peter Pan,/ And the Wizard of Oz was a dirty old man." But he really attacking cersorious people who see everything as dirty. >I want to see _The Wonderful > Land of Oz_ so badly, hopefully before I have to finish my novel. Can > anyone send me a copy? What WONDERFUL LAND are you asking about? If you mean the Shirley Temple version, it is completely unavailable at the present time. There is the Minneapolis Childrens Theatre version, the Barry Mahon film, the Cinar videotape version (both in its complete and its shortened versions). Actually most of these are MARVELOUS LAND. Jane: I saw your performance. You were fine, but it would have been nice if the person interviewing you knew something about the subject. BTW what happened with the Banner Elk plate? I did not tape the show today (of course I could tape it at 5 AM tomorrow morning if I really needed to know.) Dave: Thanks for keeping us going. Now, lets start talking about the WONDERFUL WIZARD!! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:11:35 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) Oh, and wasn't Jellia just a little girl in _Land_. She certainly seemed to be, but it seemed to change gradually, as apparently it did for Ozma. It was in Emerald City that Baum said Ozma looked about fifteen or sixteen, but he was inconsistent. In Tin Woodman, he says she is only a little older than Dorothy. If we are to believe that once Ozma was restored to the throne, that no one ages or dies, wouldn't that hold true for Ozma. Also, Polychrome is described as being Dorothy's age in Road, but illustrators and eventually authors seemed to be making her older as well, even though she is a fairy, and thus immortal. What happened with that Alfred Drake "Born in our present state; never were babies we..." I don't think it's entirely accurate (Ozma aged from a baby and as Tip), but things seem inconsistent. But with multiple authors, and the minimal proofreading we know R&B provided, who knows? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:39:16 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) For what it may be worth, Michael Goldmann is a professional fashion designer. Why he designed clothes like that for Jellia, you'll have to ask him. Disney's Return to Oz: while it owes more to MGM than it does to Baum, it is indeed a very somber and depressing movie overall. It did, however, have two redeeming qualities that no one else has commented on. 1.) The claymation sequences are beautiful to look at, and 2.) Fairuza Balk is even more so. Okay, granted, my recent re-reading for the multi-billionth time of WW reveals that Dorothy is far less mature than my 2 year old niece (who I find annoyingly immature, by the way). Baum's Dorothy is a selfish little brat who isn't above saying things like, "I don't care a bit what happens to any of you, as long as I get what I want." Fairuza's Dorothy is much more kind and caring, and seems almost motherly in her relationship with Jack. Fairuza, a mature 9 (she turned 10 on the set) is a lot more likeable than Baum's immature little girl. Frankly, while reading WW this last time, I found myself wanting to take that little snot over my knee and beat her to a bloody pulp. (by the way, I am starting up a babysitting service...). As to my item #1, I direct your attention to Nightmare Before Christmas. Also visually stunning (just as long as the idiotic storyline doesn't distract you from the gorgeous visuals). I have been told that James & Giant Peach is also excellently done. It's going to be on the Disney channel in a couple of months, so I may actually get to see it. And my item #2... Sigh! Alas, as much as I respect Fairuza as an actor, she seems to be in movies which should be watched only by the dangerously optimistic who really really need something to make them feel miserable and depressed. Valmont, for example, is the result of some film maker's sick mind. I found Things to do in Denver When You're Dead absolutely stomach-turning. Gas, Food, Lodging... Well, you get the idea. A few rare exceptions in Fairuza's career: The Worst Witch. This is a charming film that I can see any time of year. Fairuza is perfect as Mildred! Okay, the special effects are rather flimsy, but who cares? This movie is well worth seeing. Another great one is The Outside Chance of Maximillian Glick. Someone will surely correct my spelling on that. This is an absolute delight! A must-see! Run, don't walk, to your video rental place and ask for it (don't read the box. That might scare you away. Sure, it deals with religious intolerance, but please, don't let that stop you from seeing this one!). Last night, we saw The Island of Dr. Moreau. Anyone who knows H.G.'s original will tell you it's a depressing story. Yes, it is! YUCK! But the make-up effects are a really remarkable achievement. Be prepared to be depressed and distressed by the story, but just look at that make-up! The only badly done scene I recall was with some computer-animated rat-people who looked horribly unreal. Oh, almost forgot, the Craft actually makes Fairuza look ugly. And it, as usual, is a downer. Will someone PLEASE cast this girl in a nice movie? Anything! Just so it's not a depressing piece of yuckiness... Speaking of movies, I wonder if they'll have a Bert Lahr sound-alike in the cartoon of Roger Baum's Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage, which is currently in production... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:00:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 1) Nathan: Gee, I thought that the Nomes' looking like stone was cool! Check Baum's description of how they're kind of camouflaged in rock...shifting shapes.... Joel: I'm not sure what you mean about contacting me for info. I'm hoping that we'll be able to announce some of the auction material ahead of time this year, but I really don't know if that will/can happen. The only IWOC auction I know of that will probably have a catalog is the Centennial Auction. BTW, we're quite short of auction material this year and WE NEED DONATIONS AND CONSIGNMENTS. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:15:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 1) Joel: If you mean do you contact me if you want to sell something to IWOC or put it on consignment, yes, that's fine. Or Herm. Or, after he's back from his trip in a week or so, Patrick Maund. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:40:06 -0600 (CST) From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Ozzy stuff Wow! I walk away from my e-mail and don't return for a couple or four days and the Digest almost shuts down!!! FWIW, I have been getting all the Digests (except for maybe that first May Day thing. Was there more than one?) So is this Digest still on or not? (me in the background, crossing fingers and saying "Please oh please oh please!) Some points to remark on-- 1) Yes, if Ozianna wants to use my virOzes, its okay with me! 2) I will always remember Return to Oz with much nostalgia. (If anyone remembers from last time I mentioned it, this movie was the first I saw *by myself* with no parental involvement! A true passage into adulthood! Well, adolescence, anyway. I will always remember Tiktok this way. He is the best thing to come out of production design. 3) Thanks for all the replies about the Centennial Contest. Ooh, I just wish there were no Judges on this list, so we could share ideas and things. No offence or anything to any of the judges!! Maybe it's a good thing my book will be anonymous when they read it :) (There is no one in my household or my circle of friends who really know about Oz.) Nine weeks, Huh? So much to do, and so little time. . . Eric-- are we still trying to do Ozzy chats on Tuesdays? I had problems before, but I'll try again. Are you out there? Until next time, hopefully, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:22:22 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Marjan: As Nathan DeHoff mentioned, your Glinda quote is from the MGM movie, not from any of the books. "The Wizard of Oz, the Screenplay," ed. Michael Patrick Hearn, 1989 (Delta/Dell Books, NY) has Glinda telling Dorothy at the end, "You don't need to be helped any longer. You've always had the power to go back to Kansas," and, when Dorothy realizes that she's learned anything she wants is at home, and the Scarecrow and Tin Man think they should have realized it for her, "No, she had to find it out for herself. Now those magic slippers will take you home in two seconds!" Scott: Button Bright would probably do as a solution to your story needs. The narrative in "Road" characterizes him as "stupid," but in later Oz books he does not appear to be so. (You might want to look up an interesting "Baum Bugle" article, "The Enigma of Button Bright.") He appears as a main character in "Scarecrow" and "Lost Princess." He's been used as a important character in some of the small-press Oz books, but not often (David Hulan's "Glass Cat" and Harry Mongold's "Button Bright in Oz," I think are the main ones). David Hulan: Congratulations on the nice "Glass Cat" review. Nate Barlow: I sent a note to the Austrian student whose note you Digested, and suggested that she try to get hold of Hearn's "Critical Heritage Series" edition of "Wizard" (includes Bewley's "The Land of Oz: America's Great Good Place," Sackett's "The Utopia of Oz," and Littlefield's "Wizard of Oz: Parable on Populism"), also articles by Erisman and St. John. I always warned her that Littlefield's allegorical reading is not really very plausible, in spite of being quoted as fact in articles all over the place, and suggested that she ask Hearn for advice. Dave Hardenbrook: Oh, so Don is your uncle? Yes, he was the one here for the Sherlockian conference in memory of John Bennett Shaw. // I was surprised to find that the two-parts of the Feb 3-4 Digest were different in format, with part 1 ordinary, but part 2 with a good deal of the hexadecimal intrusions. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:12:14 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz FYI all, the Pacific Book Auction site has had the prices realized from the increase your insurance coverage. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:10:30 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) Steve: In terms of characterization and some of the events, Return To Oz was more Historically Accurate than the MGM movie. On the other hand, the MGM movie basically told the story of _Wizard_, while Return To Oz tried to combine two different books. David: The Nomes in RTO did look like they were carved from rock, as Baum stated in _Ozma_. I thought that they were too large, however. Jane: I would like to see some downloadable Oz art. Maybe I could use it to spruce up my pathetic web page. David: Bel-Sor-t did have an odd name. I noticed that "belt" is in it, as well as "sort." Dave: I received the May Day message, but I thought May Day was at the beginning of May. It's only February now! :) The second part of today's Digest had =3D and =20 all over it. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu Vaga: "Well! He may be a Prince to his mother, but he's a pain in the eye to me!" Grampa: "Then shut your eyes." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:14:22 -0500 From: Tyler Jones <104707.656@compuserve.com> Subject: Oz Yoop vs Reera: It's possible that Reera is more powerful than Mrs. Yoop, or vice versa, or that they practice magic in totally different ways, despite the fact that they both claim to be Yookoohoos. I've theorized before that the title of a magic-worker may be nothing more than a self-imposed label. Scott: I suppose it depends on when your book gets published (or if it does) relative to the date that _Lost King_ goes PD. Rumor has it that Dorothy Curtiss Maryott (the person in charge of the RPT estate) is very unwilling to allow the use of RPT's characters. Book of Current Focus: It will probably be easier in the long run to comtinue to have one post that has EVERYTHING in it. People can skim or skip paragraphs if they want to, and concentrate on their areas of interest. Scott: The Oz/Glinda computer language stuff is just a couple of us computer geeks playfully trying to guess what kind of computer systems the Oz folk use. The curse of the =3D and =20 have returned in part 2 of the digest, but hopefully that was a hangover from the recent problems of the past few days. Dave: You may consider the Microsoft Network, or even good old CompuServe. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:13:44 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-02-97 Robin: You can use my computer viruses, too. Here's more! Quilty Queen Virus: Patches all your program, system and data files together into one huge file, then suddenly flies apart into a million stray bytes. Wutz Virus: No matter how hard your programs try to please it, once it infects your machine Wutz will eventually archive (pot) all of them. Handy Mandy Virus: Can perform up to seven tasks simultaneously. Scamperoo Virus: Takes the place of your operating system, causing all programs and data to think it is the rightful operating system and forget the old one. Needs the Magic Emeralds and Chalk viruses to accomplish the dirty deed. Scott: How did *you" go about resurrecting Tip? I tried to base my method squarely on Baum. (Mombi used her "Switcheroo" spell on Ozma and a real Tip in infancy.) If you use Tip in your story with no explanation how he got there, there should be no conflict with SBM1. That's why I brought him back to begin with, so other Oz folks could use him in their stories again... Your story could take place sometime after the events of SBM, which was back in the early 1980's. The only thing I ask is please don't kill him off. :-) :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:35:10 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) Scott: Button Bright is NOT stupid in _Scarecrow_ (or in _Sky Island_). As a judge, all I can say about the movie characters is that I'd have to be extraordinarily impressed with a manuscript before I'd even consider using something that might get us in trouble. And, of course, if after checking with a lawyer I determined that it could indeed create a potentially sticky situation for IWOC, I'd avoid it like the plague if the author couldn't excise any possible copyright infringements. Please avoid all potential copyright infringements. It would be a shame if we had to disallow a fine ms. because of them. Dialect and deliberate grammar goofs are fine. (If they weren't Baum's Oz would never have survived!) Writing discipline does count. Grammar rules are meant to clarify meaning: weak grammar (yes, mostly narrative) obscures discourse and is frustrating to a reader. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 15:56:11 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE DIGEST "HEXED" AGAIN???: I lot of you said to me that part one of yesterday's Digest was OK, but part two had hex codes...I'm stumped by that one... Ruggedo: Heh heh heh! CYBER-OZ?: Sarah G Hadley wrote: >Does anyone know of any Oz computer programs (shareware or commercial), >besides the rather disappointing Legends of Oz, available? This brings us back to our CD-ROM discussion... :) _RETURN TO OZ_: Scott wrote: >In regards to the Return to Oz characterizations of the Nomes, where did >it say they were actually slinking around in the rocks, actually made of >malleable rocks? I don't nemember this. The Nome King was described (by >Dorothy!) as looking like Santa Claus, not gradually growing humanlike >out of stone. IMHO, the Nomes were too scary in _Return_...As for blue jeans, Trot is wearing jeans in Cosgrove-Payes' _Wicked Witch_ (Dorothy and Betsey are in shorts)... MISCELLANIA: Jeremy wrote: >(My psychology teacher has given my fellow classmates permission to >hit me when I do that kind of thing...) Oh dear! Ozma: I'd better go over and have a talk with that psychology teacher... David H. wrote: >In TIN WOODMAN Baum says that Ozma appears about 14 or 15, and Dorothy "much >younger". OTOH, in the very next book, MAGIC, he says that when you saw >Dorothy, Betsy, Trot, and Ozma together they all appeared "about of an age." >So I think making Ozma appear anywhere between about 10 and 15 can be >justified. (Or a bit older if the book is set later than Baum's time.) *** MINOR SPOILER FOR "FAIRY PRINCESS OF OZ" *** "Fairy Princess of Oz" will provide an explaination for these descrepancies... In short, Ozma has long been in her teens, but she asked everyone, including the Oz Historians, to continue to say she was a "little girl fairy after all", to save her from the wrath of Zurline and other matriarchal fairies who weren't too keen on her abandoning her childishness, not even for the sake of her being a better and more mature ruler. But Zurline finds out what's going on from a disgruntled minor-kingdom-ruler whom Ozma dethrones, and then all Hippikaloric breaks loose... Zurline: At least I know some on the Digest will be rooting for *ME*! *** END SPOILER *** -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 7, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 21:33:12 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ozzy Digest, Chris: My gorgeous villain is ready to be photocopied and mailed to you. Also got Pagemaker up & running again. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:06:49 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Another Take on the Film To: 'dimitri gontscharow' Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' Dimitri, I've not heard this interpretation. I'm forwarding your note to the Ozzy Digest discussion group, as I'm sure they'll find this interesting. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: dimitri gontscharow [SMTP:dimgon@rgalex.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 1997 3:54 PM To: info@ozclub.org Subject: Another Take on the Film To: The International Wizard of Oz Club Congratulations on a great site about a great movie. My family and I have watched it many times and as you watch it again, different ideas and themes hit you. I think the reason the movie was made when it was, is that it was a gentle but telling allegory for staying out of WWII. The year in which it was released, 1939, was filled with strong calls for isolationism and I think this movie was meant to illustrate the danger of foreign entanglements. A poor, unsuspecting girl is transported to a far-away land full of castles, titles, regal pomp and circumstance, and is met with only fearful things. She has allies, but they are not completely dependable. One is lion (the symbol of France) who is a coward. (I haven't worked out the others) Finally, after all her ordeals and her conquering of the Bad Witch, she returns to the heartland of America, Kansas, and offers the defining theme, "there's no place like home." I am very curious if there is anyone else out there who might have been struck by this interpretation. Thank You, Dimitri Gontscharow dimgon@rgalex.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:58:04 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack To: "'Crewzun@aol.com'" , 'Dave Hardenbrook' I'm not familiar with this, but am forwarding to the Ozzy Digest in case anyone there can help. It would be good to have the information for our web site. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Crewzun@aol.com [SMTP:Crewzun@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 1997 11:04 PM To: info@ozclub.org Subject: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack I am trying to find a theme pack of the Wizard of Oz If you can help me, please e-mail me at crewzun@aol.com Thank You ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:33:26 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 David: THANK YOU for the donation of a book for auction! I'm a judge for the Centennial Book Contest, but I'm not "in charge," as you put it. I didn't mean my answer to contradict Jane's. No one's gonna sit there and count words, but if the ms isn't close to the suggested count, we may notice its length as feeling too short or too long. A book that would be fine for Buckethead or Emerald City Press would probably be too short for us. On t'other hand, if a book feels "padded," that's not good either. Whatever you do, I'm sure it'll be fine. Joel: As an English teacher I, too, am glad you want to read to your child and have books available. Someone mentioned to me that you are an amateur book dealer. If so, got any surplus books for us? :-) Scott: "...in the gloom they could see strange forms flit across the face of the rock. Whatever the creations might be they seemed very like the rock itself, for they were the color of rocks and their shapes were as rough and rugged as if they had been broken away from the side of the mountain" (_Ozma of Oz_, 157). The "creations" are the Nomes. Tyler: If Dave saved all of our comments about _Wizard_ for one post, wouldn't we lose a lot of give and take in dialogue? I guess I'm not sure what you meant. Maybe one long initial post, then responses? I'm sure you didn't mean that we could only speak out in one post. (Who? US be concise?!) --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 04:46:40 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 Sorry I didn't get a chance to tell everyone, but there was no chat on Tuesday. Too many people seemed to not like that day, and it seems doing it during the week is bad for me as well. So in a while I'll announce a weekend time, which should be more convenient for more people. And I'll want to train someone else to take charge at those times when I'm not available. The "Digest" is getting SERIOUS overlong, and the prevailing attitude that the book-of-right-now discussions should be a part of the regular "Digest" will, I'm afraid, make it even longer (or force David to start doing them as two-parters regularly). If this keeps up, I may be forced to unsubscribe from the "Digest" just so I can keep up with all the REAT of my activities on the Internet, and in the rest of my life. --Eric "Oz is for everybody, even those whose time is stretched to the max" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 David: I, too, prefer receiving a 2-part Digest to having to download the file and put it in a word processor. However, I think the most important issue is what's convenient for our kindly host, Mr. Hardenbrook. He's got enough work already! -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:19:02 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 References: <01IF2VHEO8YQ9AOZMW@delphi.com> Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > ====================================================================== > > ] > c/ \ > /___\ *** THE OZZY_*DIGEST, FEBRUARY 5 - 6, 1997 *** > |@ @| > | V | \\\ > |\_/| | ;;; > \-/ \ ;/ > >< ] > > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:37:44 -0500 (EST) > From: Saroz@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-04-97 (Part 2) > > Ok, everyone, some questions: > > Does anyone know where to find classic Neill or Denslow art on the Internet? > > Does anyone know of any Oz computer programs (shareware or commercial), > besides the rather disappointing Legends of Oz, available? > There are the computer games YELLOW BRICK ROAD and YELLOW BRICK ROAD II. Has anyone played them to the end? I got bogged down in the first one and never completed it. > Can anyone give me some information on the following Oz films/tv programs: > The Magic Cloak of Oz, His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz, Shirley Temple's Land > of Oz, The Wonderful Land of Oz, The Wizard of the Emerald City. > The first two of these were produced by the Oz Film Manufacturing Company in 1914 with L. Frank Baum serving on the productions. MAGIC CLOAK is based on QUEEN ZIXI OF IX, HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW served as the original of the Jinxland section of THE SCARECROW OF OZ. Both are currently available on videotape. A review of the newest release of them will appear in the Winter 1996 BAUM BUGLE. Shirley Temple's Land of Oz was a made for television program (an article about it was in the Fall 1996 BAUM BUGLE). It is not, and has never been, commercially available. Someone else will have to talk about "The Wonderful Land of Oz," I am not sure what it is. THE WIZARD OF THE CITY OF EMERALDS is Alexander Volkov's name for his translation/adaptation of WIZARD. There have ben at least two filmings based on it. One, an animated series made in 1974, which as far as I know has never been available in the US, and the other a live action version made in the 1990's which is (or was) available, but it is in Russian and not subtitled (the same would be true of the animated version). > Sarah G Hadley > > FYI all, the Pacific Book Auction site has had the prices realized from the > increase your insurance coverage. Jane > Huh? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 10:20:48 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz post Sarah, I have some odd "Reading Adventures in Oz " software I can tell you about. But what are you looking for? Production information? Content description? Where-to-purchase info? Those same questions apply to your request for info on the Oz films you list. Narrow it a bit, if you can, so we won't load you with the wrong stuff. And see Bill Wright's home page to get Oz artwork (read his note in yesterday's Digest). I've noticed that in a couple recent posts of mine, words are dropped out right in the middle of sentences. A mystery to me. For example, I posted that the PBA prices realized were now on line and told you all to go check them out, then increase your insurance coverage. I promise it was an articulate sentence. Centennial contest writers: by all means follow Robin's lead when it comes to following the rules. All I can contribute is the spirit behind the rules as we drafted them, while as An Enforcer, she's a better lead to follow. IMHO, I would be dismayed to find out we disqualified a terrific manuscript over a few hundred words -- particulalry if it forces a manuscript to "win" that the judges didn't think was as good. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 10:30:19 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-5/6-97 Dave: I, for one, had no "hex" problems with part 2 of the Feb. 3/4 Digest. Is old Ruggedo being selective? Or just losing his touch (:-) Craig: My 2 kids showed only a passing interest to the Oz books when growing up, but did handle them with care. Now, however I'm letting my grandchildren read paperbacks or BOW copies, rather than my R&L color plate editions. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 23:54:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald A. Fennimore" Subject: Re: Back in the land of Oz On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Simon Walmsley wrote: > Hi 'direct' folks, > I'm back after a year travelling the silk road (and picking up some > Vangelis bits and pieces along the way of course... > I'll be posting my list of "Vangelis sightings through Asia" which > surprisingly turned out to be quite a few places! Heck, there was even a > Persian version of 1492 that I picked up in Iran - have you got that one > Don (luckily I picked up a 2nd copy for you just in case you didn't have > it!)? Well, if it isn't Simon! Hard to believe it has been over a year since you left. Some changes have occurred, lots of new members on the list. And a good bit of collectible Vangelis has surfaced too. I am dying to hear about your Vangelis sightings through Asia, and a Persian issue of 1492? Tell me some more! This is one that I don't have! Welcome back. Cheers, Don ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:35:07 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 Jeremy: "Weird Al" Yankovic is a humor musician, famous for his parodies of popular songs. Mailing from the web page might not work. I have never been able to test it, since I usually can't send mail from Netscape on the computer that I use. You being visitor 98 does mean something. It means that not very many people come to my web page. David: In _Giant Horse_, Trot states that she has remained ten years old. In _Lost Princess_, it is stated that Betsy is a year older than Dorothy, and Trot is a year younger. This would seem to indicate that Betsy is twelve years old, Dorothy is eleven, and Trot is ten. Sahutchi (What is your real name?): No, the text of _Ozma_, at least as far as I can remember, never states that the Nomes were made of rock, just that they looked kinda like they were carved from rock. As for fashion in Oz, illustrations seem to indicate that Dorothy and some others keep up with fashion, and Jenny Jump introduces many new styles to the people of Oz. Chris: Dorothy is rather immature in _Wizard_, but I think that she is only about four years old in that story. When she moves to Oz permanently, she is about eleven, and is much nicer. Tyler: I wonder why DCM wouldn't want us to use Thompson's characters. I'd be glad to let someone use a character that I created, as long as they asked my permission and stayed close to my characterization. Dave: Are you sure you don't mean Lurline instead of Zurline? Zurline, in _Santa Claus_, is a Wood-Nymph. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html "Having no head really saves one no end of trouble. No face to wash! No more headaches, no ear aches, no tooth aches! No lectures to listen to, no spectacles to hunt, no hair to lose, no more colds to catch in it. Why he is really better off without a head!" -Grampa ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 Sarah: As to Oz computer programs, I had a program (commercial) called, appropriately, The Wizard of Oz, which was an interactive game, possibly by Infocom. The game was after the style of Zork, if that rings any bells. Sadly, when I sold my Commodore 64 (at a terribly cheap price), TWOZ went too. David H.: By the way, when I expressed surprise yesterday that you lived in Rome,. GA, the reason is because that's where Berry College, which I'm attending, is located, as you know. Bill Wright: I still can't find your website; I'm using Netscape,. and I typed the URL in several times. Okay, the last time, I said "I'm having a little trouble finding your website." Time for an upgrade: I'm having a LOT of trouble finding it. Chris (a.k.a. Ozbucket): I don't mind saying this in mixed company, but I disagree with your impression of Baum's Dorothy entirely (not that you're unaware of that). Re Button-Bright: Funny, in my Oz novels I ended up making Button-Bright quite smart, although I explained it by a widespread "contrary-personality" spell. However, I left open the option that he might remain so, and so other writers that make him smart might fit in fine . . . Re Digest hexes: I have encountered no such phenomenon. Am I lucky or what? Or am I the one behind it all? (You'll never know . . .) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:57:29 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/5 & 6/97 Sarah: What do you want to know about those Oz films? _The Magic Cloak of Oz_ is a silent film, made by Baum, of _Queen Zixi of Ix_ (thus not really about Oz at all), and _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_ is also a silent film made by Baum, which is sort of _Wizard_ with the Jinxland plot of _Scarecrow_ mixed in. Both are available from Critic's Choice Video; I gave their toll-free number a few days ago in the Digest. You can get both of them, plus the Baum-made _Patchwork Girl_ (which is the best of the lot) and the silent _Wizard_ (best known as the one where Oliver Hardy plays the Tin Woodman), for $29.95 for the four. Craig: I didn't acquire any fragile, valuable Oz books until my daughter was old enough to know how to take care of books. When she was little she did damage my copy of YELLOW KNIGHT, but it was a fairly late reprint and I had no great difficulty in replacing it. Jeremy: I now live in Naperville, IL - a western suburb of Chicago. However, I've been in the Chicago area less than a year; before that I lived in Southern California for 33 years, the last 23 in Orange County not far from where Dave Hardenbrook lives - although we only met once, at the 1995 South Winkie conference. (And it's not that having met him, I immediately realized that I had to get outta town before sundown... :-)) Scott: If you have a copy of OZMA OF OZ, read the first description of the Nomes on the second page of Chapter XI, "The Nome King". I think the claymation came quite close to following that description - not perfectly, of course, but adequately. > I think it's funny all these reviews of the book where Oz >girls haven't discovered blue jeans. In my novel they have, just not in >places like the Emerald City and stuff, off the way places where they >have undisclosed contact with the rest of the world. It depends, of course, on when your book is set; _Glass Cat_ is set, according the Tyler's HACC (which I think is reasonably accurate), in 1983, though I'll admit that when I was writing it I was thinking 1988. If your book is set later than that, there'd be no conflict with girls wearing jeans in Oz. If it's set earlier, then there still is no necessary conflict; the absence of jeans in Oz is Barry's observation based on his reading of the FF, and girls never wear jeans (or pants of any kind) in the FF. But they might well wear jeans in places that aren't mentioned in the FF. Jellia was described as physically small in LAND, and as a "young girl", but you have to remember that in those days "girl" was used for women well into their 20s, and "young girl" (or "young woman", which Jack calls her once), probably meant a teen-ager. After all, she was an important maid in the palace (probably the same one who took care of Dorothy in WIZARD - definitely so if you believe OZOPLANING), and that's unlikely to be a post given to a sub-teen. Chris D.: >Baum's Dorothy is a selfish little brat who >isn't above saying things like, "I don't care a bit what happens to any of >you, as long as I get what I want." I don't remember Dorothy saying anything like that, and I just finished rereading WIZARD last night. Could you give a specific reference to the incident where it happened? It's certainly true that Dorothy is a much more passive character in WIZARD than she becomes in later books; she reminds me more of Betsy Bobbin (or vice versa) than her later persona. But I don't get the feeling at all that she's a "selfish little brat"; she's a young kid who's been ripped from the only home she's known into a very strange and unfamiliar country, and she's thoroughly overwhelmed by it. Despite that, she takes the best advice she gets and does what she can to get back home. If she were really that kind of selfish brat, wouldn't she have continued to chase the china princess? Ruth: Button-Bright doesn't meet Scott's criterion of " a boy who had been to Oz but had not, to anyone's knowledge, returned," unless his story is set between ROAD and SCARECROW. (And if his character was intended to be Peter Brown, then it isn't.) Button-Bright also plays a significant role in GLINDA, though not as prominent as in the two books you mention. His strongest role, though, is in SKY ISLAND. (In non-FF books, he has about as big a role in Robin Hess's CHRISTMAS IN OZ as he does in GLASS CAT.) Interesting. I didn't get any hexadecimal stuff in either part of the 2/4 Digest. See, AOL's not always the worst of the services! :-) Nathan: I know you were kidding about May Day, but a bit of trivia that not everyone knows is that this universal distress call is really French - "M'aidez!" - spelled phonetically in English. Tyler: If Scott's book is aimed at the Centennial Contest then it will, if it wins, presumably be published in 2000 - which would mean, let's see, ROYAL BOOK is PD this year, KABUMPO in '98, COWARDLY LION in '99, and GRAMPA in 2000. Nope, LOST KING won't be PD that year. Dave: True that Trot appears to be wearing jeans in WICKED WITCH, which is presumably set in the early Fifties. But remember that GLASS CAT was finished in 1992, before WICKED WITCH was published. Anyhow, as I said to Scott, we're going by what Barry knew, and as far as I know no Oz book published before 1983 - and certainly no FF book - ever showed girls in anything but skirts. Zurline is an immortal, but only if you're speaking loosely is she a fairy; she's a wood nymph, and they're not the same as fairies, though both have their primary homes in Burzee. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:45:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 Melody, Tip certainly does not get killed off. If I ever get to write the sequels I have planned, he'll be a major character in those, too. Tip's inclusion follows up on Jack Snow, if you know what I mean. (I know that's PD, if it weren't there would be know going forward; my narrative and character development would simply fall apart. The story is on that level, not Wicked or Dorothy, as far as when I said writing it not as a children's book. Actually, the character is more of a hinting at the Wiz Tinman, just enough so that you would know where I got it from. He is certainly different enough that I would consider him my own character, acknowledging "inspired by." The references to the Oz films are either discussions among the characters or subtle things like auteurist Hollywood films do (_Pulp Fiction_ and _Evil Dead II_ are good examples of the type I'm referring to; or the manner in which _Return to Oz_ reference _Suspiria_, _The Godfather_, and _Return to Oz_: subtle), though it is fairly obvious the American Film Investment Corporation Wizard of Oz is being shown at one point, when people wonder who the Garland soundalike is). I'll consider replacing Peter with Zeb, if that's what it takes to get published. (In the ms I have now, it actually says that he's dead.) Besides, didn't Button-Bright come to live in Oz? The reference to Lost King, other than an extremely vague reference to his ears, is just that he was enchanted by Mombi and she was executed for it, no specifics about any of that are given. Just that the punishment seemed harsh. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:02:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-27-97 (fwd) Here's John Fricke's response to the Clara Blandick query. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:23:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 01-27-97 Re: Clara Blandick. She just wasn't a big enough movie name to warrant billing at the top of Oz. Charley Grapewin WAS...one of those all-purpose respected character actors who'd been around for ages. He was generally known to the movie-going public...so his name meant something. Hers wouldn't have, although she got listed at the end of the film as did Pat Walshe and "Toto" as that was the spot that all supporting players usually got at least acknowledged. (No, MGM did NOT remove her name after her suicide circa 1962!) (As if they'd go back and redo the credits under any circumstances at that point!) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:47:20 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: MANY DAYS OZ GROWLS Dave - Hobsen's Choice? What's this about a giant rat? Is it Sumatran? Melanie - Well, I got out my copy of Sir Harold and that quote is sure there. He didn't say seduce, he said rape. He was talking about Orlando Furioso which I have and have never got around to reading. That part you can't blame on de Camp but his attitude toward it as shown in the last half of the sentance you sure can. Sigh! I still find myself wanting to defend Sprague as I am sure he would not be in favor of violence toward women. I also noticed in the quote that he said "trying." I guess I will have to read Orlando. All this worrying about Ozma's age. I probably shouldn't let this out but Ozma actually has large jaws, tentacles, antennae, a carapace and leaves a slimy trail. She clouds everyone's mind so that you see her as a young girl of whatever age you think is right. This also explains why Munchkins occasionally disappear. Now Dave, is your lusty young man still interested? Craig - I read many of my Oz books to my kids. That way they didn't get their grubby little hands on them at an early age. And, most important, most kids or even adults, love to be read to. Hmmm. Is that still true in the age of the one-eyed monster? And, by the way, since someone asked. I for one would prefer to be addressed as an "Ozzy" rather than a "Digester." I get this visceral reaction to the latter. Has anyone ordered Oz maps lately. I just noticed that the ones I received are so poorly registered that some of the words on the right side are almost unreadable. Sigh. Hey! I was just kidding about Ozma. I just wanted to see who was awake. :) Trying to catch up..... Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:18:28 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dave Hardenbrook writes: > THE DIGEST "HEXED" AGAIN???: > I lot of you said to me that part one of yesterday's Digest was OK, but > part two had hex codes...I'm stumped by that one... There were NO hex codes in part two for me. Perhaps you sent the hexed version to some people and the non-hexed version to others, or the problem is on the receiving end, with some mail readers somehow being switched to "hex" mode by something in the digest. > to save her from the wrath of Zurline and other matriarchal fairies who Poor Zurline! First, people keep referring to her as a fairy, (she's a wood nymph), and then they accuse her of doing all sorts of nasty things. In Baum's works Zurline is the queen of the wood nymphs that are in the forest of Burzee. The only recorded time one of Zurline's nymphs broke the law (leaving the forest and returning with a male mortal, no less) Zurline promptly took the side of her errant subject in discussing the matter with the Great Ak. (Contrary to a certain non-Baum work, Zurline never objected to any of her nymphs kissing a mortal. In fact, at one point in Baum's SANTA CLAUS a nymph kisses a mortal man on the lips, and Zurline does not object in any way.) And Baum's Zurline certainly would never interfere in the affairs of a fairy. Of course, only a book written to be HACC need worry about being consistent with Baum. With a HICC book like SIR HAROLD AND THE NOME KING, which does things like marry off Ozma, it doesn't matter if Zurline has any resemblance to Baum's Zurline. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:27:37 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: You're probably better off not knowing who "Weird Al" is... :-) Ages: SOmewhere in Baum (was it _Lost Princess_?) Baum says that Trot appears a year younger than Dorothy and Betsy a year older. Dave and fashion: IIRC, Eric Shanower illustrated _Wicked Witch_ many years after it was written. It is possible that they were not originally wearing shorts and Shanower just drew them that way. Of course, The Oz girls may be way ahead of their times in fashion... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:58:04 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack 'Dave Hardenbrook' I'm not familiar with this, but am forwarding to the Ozzy Digest in case = anyone there can help. It would be good to have the information for our = web site. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Crewzun@aol.com [SMTP:Crewzun@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 1997 11:04 PM Subject: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack I am trying to find a theme pack of the Wizard of Oz If you can help me, please e-mail me at crewzun@aol.com Thank You ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:43:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Yet Another Ozzy Virus Empire 1) I can't resist, so: HIERGARGO THE MAGICIAN VIRUS: Drops your data into the Hollow Tube, never (?) to return.=20 GREAT JINJIN VIRUS: Causes your computer to work exactly as you deserve. Note: This virus may _reduce_ crashing of Microsoft programs. QUOX VIRUS (ONYX MADDEN STRAIN): Sends itself to a computer on the other side of the planet, where it causes damage and extorts hot coals from helpless villagers. WICKED WITCH VIRUS: Overthrows your CPU and divides your machine into four smaller computers. TOTO VIRUS: Makes your computer pretend that it cannot generate speech until you notice that every other computer on the block can. QUEASY VIRUS: No one has any idea what it looks like except for its author. KABUMPO VIRUS: Stomps members of the Ozzy Digest who try to leak too much information on their unfinished viruses. Note 1: Robin, you may put these in Oziana if you wish. =20 Note 2: For those who have no idea what the Queasy is, she is a creature I invented for my brother's and my subseries in progress _Lurline's Machine_. It is known for only three things at this point: 1) Her name is Sue. 2) She is the Woozy's sister. 3) Her appearance has never been described, but it can be visualized by this easy method: Think of any appearance a living thing might have in any concieveable world. That's almost certainly wrong. Repeat ad infinitum. 2) Does anyone know of any evidence of names of areas in Oz smaller than the four major countries (Munchkinland, Gillikinland, Winkieland, Quadlingland) and the Emerald County/District of Oz, but bigger than kingdoms like Seebania, Oogaboo, and Jinxland? The only one I have uncovered so far is Wutz, which must contain the Silver Mountain (ruled by the Wizard of Wutz) and from the most natural boundary would be everything in the Gillikin Country east of the Munchkin River. From _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_, it would also appear that "Quadlingland" may have originally referred to only the area south of Hammerhead Mountain. If anyone can find any other subcountry/superkingdom names, please help. I'm on the verge of making up names from scratch so I can avoid describing Munchkin politics in terms of the Northern, Central, and Southern Munchkin Countries... 3) Moving onto my HI/RCC-expanding project, the IWOC has a page of Oz parodies and pastiches which contains several books that are neither in the HACC or the last released version of the HI/RCC. As the authors for most of the books are not listed, if anyone could identify who wrote them (or anything else about them), your help would be greatly appreciated.=20 * Adventure of the Rye Balloonist (1982), Knights of Gnomon. * Along the Yellow Brick Road in Search... (1984), Underwriter's Report. * Annotated Adventure of the Rye Balloonist (1983), published by the author (?). * Betsy Bobbin of Oz (1987), published by the author (?). * Der Wizard In Ozzenland (1962), Doubleday. [A translation perhaps?] * Dorothy and Green Gobbler of Oz (1982), Scholastic Books. * Flying Thief of Oz (1976), Davis Publications. * Peter Pumpkin in Wonderland (1908), Rand McNally. [An Oz clone?] * Pinkies and the Winkies (19113), Eldridge Entertainment. [A future book? (: ] * Tales of Magic (1991), Red Branch Press. * UFOs in Oz (1979), Buckethead. * Unc Nunkie and White King of Oz (1987), published by the author. * Wind & The Wizard (1990), Vernal Equinoz Press. * Yama Yama Land (1909), Reilly & Britton. [An Oz clone?] * Zauberlinda the Wise Witch (1901), Robert Smith. [OK, so I (probably) have the author, but shall I assume this is a copycat?] Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 97 09:43:24 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Not much to say today, except to note that in regard to the "Ozma and Jellia's" age issue, I'm glad to see that many who are of my view that "girl" does not imply "little girl" (There's someone on the Dinosaur mailing list who writes dinosaur books, and she calls herself a "Girl Dino Writer"... In fact, she's in her thirties and has a husband and kids.) I know some persons on this Digest think that my literary endevours regarding Ozma are evil, dirty, blasphemous, etc., etc., and I won't try to argue with them because I have better things to do with my time. I'm just glad to know that the vast majority of Ozzy folks ( Nix to the term "Digesters"! :) ) are much more open-minded on this issue. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 14:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 I'm not sure what Oz "theme packs" might have referred to, but possibly the inquiry was about a new production of "The Wizard of Oz Collector Cards," produced by DuoCards, Saddle Brook, NJ 07663. These are offered in a display box with a "Collector's Mini Album," and there are 30 packs in the box, each containing 7 cards. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:13:19 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Another book not on the HACC is _The Orange Knight of Oz_ Unfortunately, I forgot who wrote it, but it's a sequel to (someone else's) _The Adventure of a Mustard Jar_. I think the game Jeremy is referring to is the Windham Classic RPG _The Wizard of Oz_, based on the first two books, and released through Spinnaker. I've seen the Commodore version, if anyone has the IBM version, I'd like to play it, even though it's really old and a technological relic. I know a guy who says he's going to boot _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ for me (though he's ripping me off at $30, I'd buy a real one if it came out anyway). Marc Berezin is copying the Russian and Turkish films at cost. Moskov Diafilm made a Volshebnik film before the 1973 stop motion miniseries. There are also at least two films called _El Mago de Oz_, one (I believe) Spanish and the other Mexican. I have ordered the former from the publisher, Madera Cinevideo (which has a web site you can look up.) I don't know when either was made, but the first stars Fernando Rey, presumably as The Wizard. The other, which did sell for ten dollars before it went out of print (before I could get one, although I ordered it from a local store that has yet to get one in) is from Million Dollar Video and stats Angelica Vale, David Rodrigo, Lucio Boliver, and Carlos Espindola. Only one store in my city that I know of carries Spanish-language films, including from Million Dollar, but not this one. This one has no subtitles; I don't know about the Rey film. I wish someone knew something about these. I found them in Videolog. Hopefully the order will go through. By the way, my novel is set in 1991. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:28:31 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 I posted an essay on the net once where I talked about how Victor Fleming's _The Wizard of Oz_ was the best it could be in 1939, and a wonderful picture, but then I spelled out everything that the book did better, more unconventionally... I don't think it could have been made very faithful to the novel at that time. I prime example is that in the book Dorothy rescues herself, while in the film, she must be rescued by her male companions, in a more conventional manner. Baum is almost like a kinder Roald Dahl for the turn of the century in all his bucking of traditional fairy tale ideas to write a naturalistic fantasy, which does not follow any particular formula, aside from the vague structures of the quest and the piquaresque. As far as Peter in my novel goes, I don't think DCM would like what happened to him prior to where my novel begins. If I put Zeb there, it would bve even worse. It would take a lot of tinkering, since there are a lot of thirties references in it, to replace him with Zeb. Perhaps I'll send it as-is and go under the rule of "the club will work with you to eliminate any characters who are not in the public domain," with that attached as the note. I think it will be better still, if I take out the mention that Spetnek sings "Slide Some Oil to Me." (No, I did not try to quote the lyrics.) To distinguish him more from Tinman. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:35:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Dimitri, that interpretation is an interesting one. Perhaps it's a perfect companion piece to Marcel Carne's _Les Visiteurs du Soir_, a 1946 fantasy very obviously and admittedly about that same idea. However, it was more supportive of France, being a French film. Dr. Bingham told us Carne was still alive on the that day he died, and it was his Hitchcock thing all over again. (He hoped Hitchcock would die so that the five films he had barred from release until after his death would become available, and the day after he said it, Hitch died.) There are four new (pre-Oz Kids) videos of _The Wizard of Oz_ which were released in September. _Adventures Along the Yellow Brick Road_, _Saved by the Mouse Queen_, _The Journey to the Emerald City_, and _Freedom from the Witch_. _The Wizard of Oz in Concert_ is not listed in Videolog, but I've heard it really is out, and since it was shown on PBS, according to Marc Berezin, it probably is. Does anyone have it (the video, not the album), to confirm this? Fred Meyer said the Shirley Oz film was shown at a convention. I was wondering if anyone saw it there. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 15:38:46 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 References: <01IF5489SGUQ9APPU5@delphi.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:58:04 -0600 > From: International Wizard of Oz Club > Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack > To: "'Crewzun@aol.com'" , > 'Dave Hardenbrook' > > I'm not familiar with this, but am forwarding to the Ozzy Digest in case > anyone there can help. It would be good to have the information for our > web site. > > Sincerely, > Jim Vander Noot > > -----Original Message----- > From: Crewzun@aol.com [SMTP:Crewzun@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 1997 11:04 PM > To: info@ozclub.org > Subject: Wizard of Oz Window95 Theme Pack > > I am trying to find a theme pack of the Wizard of Oz > If you can help me, please e-mail me at crewzun@aol.com > > Thank You > Dave, Re the above: There is something at http://nng.simplenet.com/themes3.html . I have not tried it out so have no recommendations, pro or con. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:02:02 -0600 (CST) From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff I don't know if this message got out or not, so here it is again-- Did anyone *not* get the latest issue of the BUGLE besides me? Dave, weren't you wondering about this too, awhile back? I've got my receipt and card regarding my 97 renewal in IWOC, so I must be in some database somewhere. . . And if I am the only one who didn't get it, what can I do about it? thanx, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:29:54 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Melody - My admiration for you has increased again. Pagemaker! I was sure it was developed by a demon nerd to bedevil anyone with a logical mind. Dimitri - Try and stay out of the sun. WOZ was not written in 1939. Next we will get WOZ as an allegory of Hillary Clinton going to Washington. Sigh......There he goes again. :) I'm not sure why some are making this such an issue. We are going to have a book of the month. People will add some comments on it at the appropriate time. No one is going to write some treatise. Relax. In response to Nathan - Does anyone know DCM well enough to ask her POLITELY why she is playing "dog in the manger" with an intellectual property whose creation she had nothing to do with? Not wanting to do any projecting..... Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:00:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Jane wrote:>>I would be dismayed to find out we disqualified a terrific manuscript over a few hundred words -- particulalry if it forces a manuscript to "win" that the judges didn't think was as good. I'd be just as dismayed. We're judges, not "enforcers." I hope we show good judgment. DQ'ing a manuscript over a few hundred words does not demonstrate good judgment. I don't like "Digesters" either. I've always thought of us as Ozzies or Ozmaniacs. Yes, Bear, kids still like to be read to, thank heavens. The one-eyed monster doesn't cuddle. Jeans in Oz: Eric Shanower deliberately updates the clothing. If you know Eric, that should make sense to you. He's serious about his work and he thinks it out thoroughly. His logic re fashion is impeccable: Neill's drawings reflected the styles of the current times. It's no longer the '20s, '30s, or '40s, so Eric chooses to show things the way they are in our version of modern times. Bill Wright: I have had no trouble accessing your terrific website using Netscape. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Jeremy: Button-Bright doesn't ever seem to really be _stupid_. He is _ignorant_ in _Road_, but this is probably due to his youth and lack of experience. This might have counted as "stupid" when _Road_ was written. Note that the Scarecrow considered the Silver Islanders to be "stupid" because of the cultural differences between Oz and the Silver Island. Button-Bright's main attributes seem to be a lack of concern and attention for what is occurring around him. Bear: I realized that your description of Ozma was a joke, but it reminded me of Queen Zixi, who, as you know if you have read _Queen Zixi of Ix_, was really an old hag, but used her witchcraft to look young and beautiful. John: In _Santa Claus_, wasn't the mortal man whom Necile kissed Santa Claus himself? This would clearly be a different set of circumstances than Nelanthe's kissing of a strange mortal man in _Forgotten Forest_. After all, Santa Claus was Necile's foster son. Tyler: Yes, it was _Lost Princess_ that referred to Dorothy as a year older than Trot and a year younger than Betsy. Aaron: I enjoyed your viruses. I was originally going to ask what a Queasy was, but then I read your explanation. When you ask about "areas," I assume you mean political territories. I can't recall too many of these, except for references to the Northern, Southern, and Central Munchkin and Winkie Countries. In my _Giant Rabbit_, Lord Goldkoyn states that the area ruled by Tozzyfog of Sun Top Mountain contains more than the mountain itself. I took a glance at _UFOs in Oz_ when I saw it at a Munchkin Convention Silent Auction. It seemed to be a collection of pictures of flying characters and objects in the Oz series. I have never seen _Der Wizard in Ozzenland_, but I remember seeing a Bugle review of this, which stated that it was a spoof, written in "mock-Germanese." Oz thought of the day: In _Grampa_, Dorothy and Percy Vere visit Monday Mountain, where every day is washday. If all the inhabitants do is wash clothes, where do they get the dirty clothes to clean? Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "A stitch in time saves nine! Well, who wants to save nine? Why should nine be saved any more than six or seven?" -Scraps ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:09:38 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Re: Dimitri's Theory on 1939 MGM movie/WWII: Dimitri: 1) Wizard was released August 1939. WWII started September 1939. U.S didn't enter war until December 1941. 2) Book on which movie was based was published in 1899/1900. Read the book. Re: Eric's comment that the Digest is getting SERIOUS overlong This reminds me of when we take my mother out for dinner and she complains she was given "too much food." I ask her what would she rather have, not enough? If the digest is too long, simply don't read it all! Speaking for myself, I enjoy everyone's comments at least to some degree. The more the merrier. Re: Chris' (a.k.a. Ozbucket's) impression of Baum's Dorothy ("selfish little brat who isn't above saying things like, 'I don't care a bit what happens to any of you, as long as I get what I want.'") My first thought is that this is a setup to encourage some discussion on this point. Not only do I not recall this quote--but I've also never heard anyone describe Dorothy in this way. Everyone's certainly entitled to their opinion--but I'm afraid I need more substance and facts to back this up. If this opinion is for real, then I'm sure an in-depth critique which explores this heretofore unknown facet of Baum's main character would make interesting, Bugle worthy, reading, to say the least. Dave--thank you for the great job you've been doing with the Digest. And good luck with your book, too. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:36:50 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Our Landlady: My wife gave me BoW's "Our Landlady" for my birthday. "The Oz Collector" says "all copies ordered will have laid into them a bookplate signed by the editor, Nancy Tystad Koupal." Mine came with the signed bookplate all right, but it's just a loose square of paper. Am I supposed to paste it into the book or something? For some reason I was expecting it to be a page that's actually bound or tipped into the book. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the point of having the bookplate is. Anyone else who ordered "Our Landlady," was this your experience too? Oz-Story: A bought Volume 2 at a comic store today, mostly because it has "Policeman Bluejay" in it. Anyone know if Volume 1 is still available? I think it has "Sam Steele's Adventures." And when is Volume 3 due out? -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:12:17 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robin: I am not sure what you were talking about when you asked me about my call for only one post. I never made such a request. In fact, the only time that I ever commented on the book-of-the-month thing was to suggest that it be done in order. You must have me mixed up with somebody else. Nathan: My current MOPPeT is that Dorothy was twleve by the time she moved to Oz and that her previous visits to Oz slowed her aging down by one year. This allows me to have a reasonable dating sequence for the HACC and yet still jibes with the age evidence that you mentioned yesterday. Nathan again: From what little I know (mostly rumor and heresy), DCM seems to think that "Auntie RUth" would never want her characters used by anybody else and that anybody using them would change and corrupt them. Too bad, since RPT has manby interesting characters that would spice up any Oz book. Also, I'll let Dave clue you in on the differences between Lurline, Zurline and Lulea. Go for it, Dave! :-) Jeremy and Chris: I will go so far as to say that Dorothy, at least in the Baum books, is a little arrogant. For example, she is constantly calling ruler's attention to the fact that Ozma rules Oz, rules us, and rules YOU, and you had better do what we say... While she is technically correct, one gets the impression that she is being a little bit imperious. Jeremy alone: Your school may have blocked off certain areas of the internet for some unknown reason. Check with your webmaster and show him the URL of Piglet Press, just in case. Jeremy yet again: SOme people have commented on the fact that Button-Bright may not be as stupid as many think. Behind his "Don't knows" and silence, there sometimes lurks a quiet wisdom. David: IIRC, my placing of _Glass Cat_ had something to do with an anniversary that you mentioned. It may be necessary to change it based on the changing of one of the books in the FF. ********** SPOILER FOR _A MURDER IN OZ_ ********** sahuthci (what IS your real name?) I, at least, know indeed from whence you speak. If you accept the events recorded in _Disenchanted Princess_ and _Murder_, there are in fact TWO Tips wandering around Oz! The original Tip, who has no real connection to Ozma, and is now named Dinny, and the other Tip, who was "created" when Mombi switched the forms, and now is a person all his own. If the philosophy of consistency is followed, (which not everybody does), should there not be an Amalea who is struggling to get outside of Dinny and assume her own identity? ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Aaron: The only one I can think of in the FF is Pumperdink, which contains the city of that name and some (unnamed) villages. OUtside of the FF, I can vaguely remember one such instance, but I can't remember anything about it except that the villagers of the subcountry/superkingdom had some kind of election every seven years. Maybe Chris Dulabone can remember more. I believe _Dorothy and the Green Gobbler of Oz_ is a comic-book style rendition of a Thanksgiving Oz cartoon that was kind of strange. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 01:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/7/97 This Digest ended up with a big chunk of the beginning repeated, and then other stuff later on in the Digest repeating again...but it's much better than no Digest at all! Dimitri: The lion is the symbol of France? I don't recall that; I thought the symbol of France was the lily. The lion rampant is the symbol of Scotland, and three lions passant gardant (which are, IIRC, called "leopards" in heraldry) are the symbol of England, but France? And the cowardice of the lion wasn't new with the film WIZARD; that's straight from the book, which was written in 1899 and couldn't possibly have been thinking about WW II, or even WW I. Now, if the lion's Brooklyn accent were relevant to your interpretation of the film, then yeah, it might be significant. Robin: >David: THANK YOU for the donation of a book for auction! You can wait to thank me until BoW brings out a facsimile RINKITINK; I'm not donating until then (which, IIRC, means probably for the 1999 auctions). Most of the original FF were in the 40,000-50,000 word range, based on the several texts I've downloaded and run word counts on. The only ones I've found so far that are over 50,000 were PATCHWORK GIRL and RINKITINK, and neither of them exceeded 50,000 by much. (I'll admit, I've only looked at Baum books, since they're the ones that are easiest to find on the Net.) As I say, I don't know quite what the "natural" length of my book will be; I'm sure it will be well over 40,000, but I don't know if it will make 50,000, and if it does, it won't be by much. I'll assume that nobody is going to count words, and that something that feels like an FF-length book will be considered adequate. (I'm already beyond the length of anything BoW has published, except for GIANT GARDEN, and any Buckethead book I've read except for CORY, which was pretty much a full-length book, and of course DISENCHANTED PRINCESS, which is longer than anything in the FF.) Eric: The Digest is getting longer again, but I question your "overlong" adjective. I've found everything in the last several Digests (not counting repeats and that sort of thing that have nothing to do with anything but software glitches) to be interesting and worthwhile. I'd be sorry to see you unsubscribe, since your comments are always cogent when you make them, but if it's a choice between that and people suppressing things they'd like to say, or ask about, well... Craig: Oh, I agree entirely that whatever is the least trouble for Dave is the way the Digest should be sent. I was just saying that other things being equal, I'd rather have a 2-part Digest than a monolithic one that's longer than the AOL reader will handle. Either way works; I don't know which is more trouble for him. Jane: I think your problem with dropped-out words (or lines) may be an AOL problem. It's happened to me, and to other AOL people on the Digest; I don't remember seeing it happen to anyone else. It doesn't sound as if any MS is going to be disqualified for word count, which was what I was concerned about. If feeling as long as an FF book is the criterion, I have no problem. Dave: Did Donald Fennimore's post have anything to do with the Digest? Made no sense whatever to me! Nathan: It seems unlikely that Dorothy is as young as four in WIZARD; she is certainly able to read the fairly complex sentence "Let Dorothy go to the City of Emeralds", and the instructions on how to use the Golden Cap to summon the winged monkeys. Granted, I could have read these when I was four, and so probably could a number of the rest of you, but we weren't growing up on a farm in the middle of the Kansas prairie in 1899, either. It seems almost certain to me that Dorothy was no younger than six in WIZARD. Jeremy: I remember a WIZARD OF OZ game that I had for an IBM-compatible computer back in the mid-'80s. It seemed to follow the book quite closely, but it wasn't very interesting so I never got very far with it. It was a lot like ZORK, but with some (not very good) pictures in the background. Well, yeah, it was because you mentioned that you were at Berry that I mentioned that I'd once lived in Rome. Button-Bright is quite intelligent - if not particularly responsible - in my published Oz book. Scott: I wouldn't think that references to the film _as a film_ would create any problems - heaven knows, there have been ample references of that sort in books, and newspaper columns and I don't know what-all, over the years. Whether such references would appeal to the judges is something else, but they shouldn't be any kind of insuperable obstacle. Bear (or was it Dave): It's Hobson, not Hobsen. (The guy was English, not Norwegian...) And contrary to popular belief, "Hobson's Choice" is not the same thing as a dilemma (you have two choices, neither of which is at all attractive), but "take it or leave it". Hobson was the owner of a livery stable in London in the 19th century, and his policy was that anyone wanting to hire a horse could take the one nearest the entrance or go elsewhere. I'm sure de Camp wouldn't be in favor of violence toward women, too. I think his "rape" line just meant that he found the ORLANDO FURIOSO a more realistic depiction of what the 9th century was really like than the FAERIE QUEENE. I read to several kids in one of the local grade schools once a week. They all seem to like it. (One of them even likes me to read GLASS CAT to her. A darling girl of impeccable taste... The rest mostly favor Terry Pratchett's ONLY YOU CAN SAVE MANKIND, but then I've been told that I resemble a tall Terry Pratchett...) Aaron: The only one of your books queried that I have is DOROTHY AND THE GREEN GOBBLER OF OZ. I actually thought it was one of the Random Housies; it certainly resembles one. It was based on an apparently animated TV special, "Thanksgiving in Oz", and it's HI/CC, since it contradicts EMERALD CITY in how Dorothy, Uncle Henry, and Aunt Em come to Oz permanently. (I think the author knew only the movie.) But for a short book it isn't that bad. Everyone: Out of curiosity, how many people on the Digest are writing books (as yet not submitted) for the Centennial Contest? I know that Scott, Danny, and I are, but are there others? Dave? Anybody? (Of course, you don't have to answer. We'll see when the time comes.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 02:08:32 -0500 (EST) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-07-97 Regarding my previous post and the responses to it: About the computer software -- I have seen or heard of products like YBR and the READING ADVENTURES IN OZ, but have never been able to play/experience them. I was wondering what these and any other programs are like, and if they are worth purchasing. About the films -- I own PATCHWORK GIRL, so I know how impressive it is. As an Oz aficianado who wants to experience all sorts of Oz, I am interested in any information regarding the films I named....cast, availability, (especially) plot descriptions, etc. Oh, and one more question...would anyone be interested in original Oz art? I've made some.....I could scan it in and send graphics of it. Sarah ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:54:41 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: those pastiches "Der Wizzard In Ozzenland" is a collection of one page summaries of childrens stories written in fake Germanized English with comic morals. The title story comes first. "Dorothy and the Green Gobbler of Oz" is a novelized version of the animated TV program known as "Thanksgiving in Oz" "Christmas in Oz" etc. in which Sid Caesar is the voice of the Wizard. "The Flying Thief of Oz" is a short story in (I believe) Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine. "Tales of Magic" is a typo for TALES OF MAGIC LAND, Peter Blystone's translations of Volkov "Oz" books. "UFOs in Oz" is not from Buckethead, it was published by Alla T. Ford, and contains pictures of various Flying Objects in the Oz books, redrawn by Bill Eubank. "Unk Nunkieand the White King of Oz" and "Betsy Bobbin of Oz" is available from Buckethead, they are two short works printed back to back. "The Wind and the Wizard" is a remarkable two volume work which takes its protagonist to Oz and several other worlds seeking the meaning of his existance. Among the other worlds is that of THE WATER BABIES. "Yama Yama Land" is sort of an Oz Clone, I only read it once, and my copy is missing some pages, "Zauberlinda, the Wise Witch" was not written by Robert Smith (that is the publisher). It is by a woman named Gibson. I could write a paper about this book. It bears a resemblance to WOO. It has the Gnome King as a character long before OZMA OF OZ (or THE LIFE AND ADVENTURES OF SANTA CLAUS). I could write more about each of these, but my copies are at home, and I am in my office. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 23:56:39 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Danny wrote: >Did anyone *not* get the latest issue of the BUGLE besides me? Dave, >weren't you wondering about this too, awhile back? Yes, but I did receive it in the end. BCF: Someone asked me in private when our discussion of _Wizard_ will begin... The highest request I received was for a week (about a week ago), so we'll offically begin on Monday (if that OK with everyone?). THREE QUEENS: Tyler wrote: >Also, I'll let Dave clue you in on the differences between Lurline, Zurline >and Lulea. Go for it, Dave! :-) Thanks Tyler, but I'd better pass...I've infuriated enough folks this week! :) VANGELIS IN OZ???: >Did Donald Fennimore's post have anything to do with the Digest? Made no >sense whatever to me! This message was from the Vangelis mail list that "Make_Digest" stuck in yesterday's Digest (IF THEN ELSE RETURN;) and I missed taking out... Speaking of Vangelis, I just got his new album, _Oceanic_, and I recommend it... It joins his earlier album _Direct_ on my list of "Music to Read/Write Oz Books By". ALLEGORICAL SYMBOLISM IN SCRAPS' RHYMES: :) Bear wrote: >Dimitri - Try and stay out of the sun. WOZ was not written in 1939. Next we >will get WOZ as an allegory of Hillary Clinton going to Washington. This reminds me to ask a question I meant to ask -- A long time ago, I read an article that rebuked another article that bashed the late Carl Sagan. I forget how it came about (this was about 10 years ago), but the discussion launched into a parody-interpretation of _Wizard of Oz_, in which it was argued in jest that _Wizard_ is meant to advance the agnostic point of view. The argument was very elaborate and IIRC very funny! Has anybody else seen this article, and know in what magazine it was printed, by whom, and when? (I know this is a longshot because it was so long ago, but I thought I'd just ask...) BTW, has anyone here read _The Philosopher's Alice_? If you haven't read it, let me be the first to congratulate you. :) (For more sane and level-headed thoughts about the _Alice_ books -- including some Ozzy references -- try Martin Gardner's _Annotated Alice_.) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 10:22:05 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-8-97 Bear: Your Hillary Clinton comment put me on the floor! (:-D Craig: Oz-Story 1 was still available a few month ago. Drop a note to the Hungry Tiger Press. (See ad at bottom of last page of O-S 2). Volume 3 will probably be out sometime this summer, as volumes 1 & 2 came out in July or August, IIRC. Tyler: Well, now we know "sahutchi" is Scott somebody. So now we have Scott Olson, and Scott Not-Olson, it seems. :-) Dick ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 07:16:44 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Well, struck a nerve again, I see. And to those who replied, lose the attitude. If I unsubscribe, it's not because of the content, just that it is getting long. (How can I know what not to read, I might add, if I don't read it first?) There was a time there when a lot of people were complaining about the lengths of my posts, yet I'm not allowed to do the same? Well, *I* have finally gotten the message, perhaps Digesters (which I will use to distinguish us from the poor unfortunate Oz fans who are NOT online) need to take a dose of their own medicine. Okay, I know the above paragraph is going to bend somebody's nose out of joint, so let me see if I can impliment some of my ineffectual damage control now instead of later. I love "The Ozzy Digest." Ever since I've been on the Internet I've wanted to be involved in some sort of interactive Ozziness, and until I can convince people that a newsgroup is NOT the end of the world (or this Digest), this is it. There's a lot of great stuff going on here, and Dave has done a great service. The trouble is, the "Digest" has become a victim of its own success. It's just getting to be a bit too long for ME (your situation may be different) to digest it all in one day. I am on two other mailing lists, I get frequent Oz questions through my web page, and I am a regular reader and sometimes poster in a number of newsgroups (BTW, Chris Dulabone, you may want to check out one of the latest, alt.fan.fairuza-balk). Plus, I DO have a full-time job, a wife, and several other time-consuming hobbies. I can't do it all, something may have to give soon. So why the "Digest"? Of late, it's become a bit too repetitive, with several people answering the same questions in one issue, old arguments and opinions coming up again, folks going into minute detail, notes that should be personal replies to one or two people creeping in, etc. I'm not asking for censorship or any sort of strict controls, all I'm asking for is a little self-restraint. If the average length of the "Digest" can be shortened just a little bit, it will be a big help for me, and I'm sure to the other readers who don't have all the time in the world. --Eric "Thank goodness today is Saturday..." Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 11:16:16 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 David: I can't complain either about the length of the Digest. At worst, I just skim through stuff I'm not interested in. At best, well let's just say reading the Digest has become a daily ritual that I look forward to very much. Regarding AOL: It's an all or nothing thing for me. A few times I didn't receive it. But when I do get it, it's complete (aside from a few hexadecimal days back when Dave was having server problems.) Some books I've seen at local stores: Denslow's "The Pearl and the Pumpkin" - Any good? Worth $40 in first edition? Good condition except for totally faded spine. "Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies" - Very good to fine condition, dust jacket has a couple of one-inch chips, otherwise good. $150 is still beyond my budget, unless someone tells me this is just an incredible find. Book of the Moment: After having finally finished my FF collection, I've read through "Shaggy Man" and have started "Hidden Valley." Until I finish "Merry Go Round," I'll have a hard time justifying starting WOZ. I figure if I spend a week of bedtime reading on each book, it will be three weeks before I've finished WOZ. That means I'll be starting "Marvelous Land" about halfway through the discussion of that book (if we're still on the two-week plan.) From then on, I'll be caught up with the group. That's a rather long and convoluted way for me to say that an initial lack of participation on my part should NOT be interpreted as a lack of interest. Anything else? Probably. I always think of more I want to say after I've already clicked the "Send Now" button! Oh well. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:58:28 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David and Scott: Chris D.'s comments on Dorothy's apparent selfishness are not merely conjecture. His summary of Dorothy's attitude ("I don't care a bit what happens to any of you, as long as I get what I want.") is a paraphrase of a quotation from Chapter Five that describes Dorothy's response to an argument between the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman over the relative importance of brains and heart: "Dorothy did not say anything, for she was puzzled to know which of her two friends was right, and she decided if she could only get back to Kansas and Aunt Em it did not matter so much whether the Woodman had no brains and the Scarecrow no heart, or each got what he wanted." Of course, this is early on in the book, before Dorothy has a chance to develop a strong sense of loyalty to her friends. I imagine there will be a lot more said about Dorothy's character once the official discussion of the book kicks off on Monday, but I'll say now that she seems in general to be a tough, resilient, practical-minded little creature, quite a relief from the sugary, sentimentalized heroines of so much children's literature from the late nineteenth century (Alice excepted, of course). Incidentally, the unexpected turn in Dorothy's thoughts in that quotation above (the reference to a brainless Woodman and a heartless Scarecrow) is really a very astute response to their arguments. On Dorothy's age: Michael Patrick Hearn, in _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_, puts her at five or six and notes that Denslow's illustrations depict Dorothy in clothing appropriate for that age group. I hadn't seen the FX Collector's show prior to Jane's appearance and am glad to know about it. I felt a little indignant, though, that Jane's breathtaking Oz collection was set in the context of segments, on following days, that highlighted kooky collections of sunflowers and hair art. -Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:34:49 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 2/8/97 Scott H.: I remember running across a rather bizarre Spanish-language version of WIZARD on KMEX in LA one day as I was idly flipping channels. Since I don't speak Spanish, I can't comment on the dialog, but the action was interesting. I don't know if this was one of the film versions you mention or if it was a made-for-TV production (it certainly looked as if they hadn't spent much money on it). Females who get themselves out of scrapes were actually pretty common in the films of the '30s; it was later on, in the postwar era of the late '40s and '50s, that it became _de rigueur_ for them to be rescued by their male companions. Check most of the films Kate Hepburn made when she was young, for instance. Robin: The only problem with calling us Ozzies or Ozmaniacs is that there are a lot of Oz fans who aren't subscribers to the Digest, and those terms could apply equally well to them. But Digesters sounds like we spend all our time eating... I've had no trouble accessing Bill Wright's web site using AOL, FWIW. Nathan: Possibly the laundresses of Monday Mountain wash everyone's clothes for miles around. Craig: I imagine the bookplate for _Our Landlady_ is loose because some people might prefer not to have the bookplate permanently attached to the book. This gives the owner of the book the option of attaching it or not. I'm sure OZ STORY MAGAZINE 3 will be out in time for the Ozmopolitan Convention in June, and possibly earlier. (I know David Maxine told me last June that they already had all the written material for it.) Tyler: Dorothy is certainly assertive, at least after WIZARD. "Imperious" is probably a little strong. The only occasion I can think of where she really sounds imperious is with Coo-ee-oh in GLINDA. Since the big party at the end of GLASS CAT is a celebration of the 75th anniversary of Betsy Bobbin's arrival in Oz, its date hinges on the date assigned to TIK-TOK. As I said, I was thinking 1988 (which was the year I started writing it) based on the publication date of TIK-TOK, assuming that the events of the book happened the year before the book was published. But that was before I started thinking about the ages of the juvenile characters; I concur with your putting TIK-TOK in 1908, which would slide GLASS CAT back to 1983. There's nothing about it that would contradict pushing it back five years, at least in the text. (The illustrations of Barry wearing a reversed baseball cap reflect a fashion that wasn't around in 1983, as far as I recall, but there are quite a lot of things about the illustrations that don't agree with the text - although I like them anyhow.) Dave: I'm ready to start discussing WIZARD any time. (There's already been a little bit of it based on Chris D's insult of Dorothy.) I've never even heard of "The Philosopher's Alice", much less read it. Who wrote it? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:27:50 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Tyler: Your point about "A Murder in Oz" and _Seven Blue Mountains_ was a good one. Since Mombi once switched forms with Jellia, does this mean that a copy of Mombi is lurking inside of Jellia? Where is the reference to Pumperdink being made up of several villages? David: It is quite possible that Dorothy was only six at the time of _Wizard_. This would mean, however, that not very many years elapsed between Dorothy's first and second visits to Oz. We do know that Dorothy was attending school at the time of _Dorothy and the Wizard_. Sarah: I might like to see your Oz art. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu Grampa: "What do you mean, flying through this forest deceiving hungry travellers?" Bill: "I don't know what I mean, for I've only been alive since last night. What do you mean yourself, pray? Must everyone have a meaning like a riddle, pray?" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:00:07 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: Re: The Wizard of Oz Windows95 Theme Pack: Yes, there is such a thing. In order for it to work, though, you must have Microsoft or Windows 95 Plus! as your operating system. You can obtain this theme pack at no charge from the following website: Name: Free Desktop Themes URL: http://home.sprynet.com/interserv/sangar/ It is very easy to download; it only takes about 2 minutes. It downloads as an executible file called: woz.exe. It also has a readme.txt file that gives you the instructions for installing on your desktop. It even includes a free screensaver. This lets you customize your desktop with Wizard of Oz themes! You even get sound schemes and everything! Also, I came across a Judy Garland Wizard of Oz images "free" screensaver today if any is interested. You can obtain this one at no charge from the following website: Name: The Judy Garland Club Homepage URL: http://www.landofoz.demon.co.uk/ This one takes a little longer to download because it's about 1.2mb. You get three different screensavers and can choose any or all of them to install on your computer. The only thing to note on this one is the following requirement: You must have Windows 3.1 or 95. Also "High colour" or "True colour" are required. This is a zipped file called jgsaver.zip so you will need pkunzip or something comparable in order to decompress it for use. I downloaded this screensaver this p.m. even though I don't have "High or True" colour. The result was this bizarre "Andy Warholish" colorized negative screensaver of Wizard of Oz images. It looks really cool! Don't know if it'd appeal to everyone, though. Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: Just another quick thing about the Oz screensaver that I wrote about previously. Just wanted to make a correction. I do have High/True colour on my pc and, if any of you are using Windows95 and want to download this screensaver, you probably have this also. It's under settings via your desktop properties. Then, it's under color palette. You can choose whichever you want: High or True. It worked for me! Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 20:23:41 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz other Oz titles: IIRC, _Unc Nunkie and the White King_ and _Betsy Bobbin_, as Steve said, are published by BEOO under the omnibus title _Two Terrific Tales of Oz_. Sadly, it is out of print. Dmitri responses: Since this person is not on the digest, he will not be able to see any of your responses. New name?: My internet address seems to have changed recently to a proper name, which you can see by going to the top of my post. Do any other CompuServers on the digest know anything about this? I notice that Bear's address has not changed. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:52:49 -0600 (CST) From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Okay, so Dave got HIS bugle, and I think we were the only ones lacking. SO, the question remains, who should I write to to get it? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 20:01:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Dorothy Curtiss Maryott holds the copyright to RPT's Oz. Anytime anyone uses a copyrighted character without paying the copyright holder, he/she is breaking the law. I know Dotty fairly well, but wouldn't dream of asking her to let folks use her aunt's copyrighted characters indiscriminately, and that seems to be what's really being asked for here. Dotty is NOT some nasty, dog-in-the-manger-type person. She's a lady who's been "burned" by copyright infringements. She's also a gal who has been very generous to IWOC. You'd like her. Honest!! Here's a fast story about Dotty. She and I were standing on a landing above a partying group at Winkies one year. Every so often, she and I would lob a piece of ice at some poor, unsuspecting Winkie. It took quite a while before we were caught, and then only because Dotty was laughing her head off (figuratively). She's a dear lady. Nathan: Washing clothes if you're as big as those Tubbies are is SWEATY work! Dmitri: Nah. I don't think so. DIGEST length: I like it like it is. (Gee, what a weird looking sentence!) --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 03:34:28 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Re: Tyler writes (to Jeremy and Chris) "I will go as far to say that Dorothy, at least in the Baum books, is a little arrogant." IMHO, "arrogant" (or "brat") may be too strong to discribe Dorothy. But how about just saying she has "spunk"? Everyone likes spunk, right? (Well, except for Lou Grant, right Dave?) Re: Craig's comment about receiving a "signed loose piece of paper" instead of a "laid-in signed bookplate" with his Our Landlady book. Craig, a "laid-in signed bookplate" is a fancy way of saying "signed loose piece of paper." Insofar as whether you want to paste it in the book or not, that's up to you. I have the same edition with the signed bookplate, and it's just kind of stuck in there between the pages (it does make a handy bookmark). Re: Note to Bear (or was it Dave) "It's Hobson, not Hobsen. (The guy was English, not Norwegian...) Actually (at least with my experience), HobSON would be Norwegian, HobSEN would be Danish. (i.e. OlSON=Norwegian, OlSEN=Danish). ;-) Re: DCM's protection of RPT's characters: If this is true, I don't think she can be blamed too much. My understanding is that if you start making exceptions, you're pretty much saying you're giving up all rights. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 00:37:48 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Ozzy Digest Nathan DeHoff writes: > In _Santa Claus_, wasn't the mortal man whom Necile kissed Santa Claus himself? > This would clearly be a different set of circumstances than Nelanthe's kissing > of a strange mortal man in _Forgotten Forest_. But Necile clearly broke the law when she brought the infant into the forest, yet Zurline's response was to take the side of her errant subject. Punishing Necile was thus the job of the Great Ak (who is the one that made the laws in the first place). The likely punishment was "words of chiding", but Necile ends up escaping even this. All this could not be more different from FORGOTTEN FOREST, where "Zurline" subjects Nelanthe to extremely harsh punishment. No effort was made to discover all the facts (in the end, the "mortal man" turns out not to have been a mortal man at all, and he might have used a charm spell to get her to kiss him) nor was Nelanthe given a chance to speak up in her own defense. The punishment was not only absurdly harsh, it was stupid. Nelanthe knew all the forest's secrets, and banishing her made it likely that those secrets would get out to someone who shouldn't know them (which is what happened). Frankly, I would expect more intelligent behavior from an immortal who has been around for thousands of years. Zurline in FORGOTTEN FOREST is simply way out of character. It would be like an Oz book where Ozma is portrayed as a ruthless tyrant. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:52:26 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 References: <01IF5STKE2LU9FNFUN@delphi.com> > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > > Another book not on the HACC is _The Orange Knight of Oz_ Unfortunately, > I forgot who wrote it, but it's a sequel to (someone else's) _The > Adventure of a Mustard Jar_. More information about these two books please!!! > Marc Berezin is copying the Russian and Turkish films at cost. Moskov > Diafilm made a Volshebnik film before the 1973 stop motion miniseries. All right. Tell us how to get in touch with Marc. I presume he is making these available on NSTC video. > There are also at least two films called _El Mago de Oz_, one (I > believe) Spanish and the other Mexican. I have ordered the former from > the publisher, Madera Cinevideo (which has a web site you can look up.) Their URL is . _El Mago_ is not listed on their page, but I have e-mailed them about it. > Scott > > Fred Meyer said the Shirley Oz film was shown > at a convention. I was wondering if anyone saw it there. > Scott > Yes, I did. It was quite enjoyable. However, the copy that was sent to the convention was for showing their only with instructions that it should not be copied. > > Re: Chris' (a.k.a. Ozbucket's) impression of Baum's Dorothy ("selfish little > brat who isn't above saying things like, 'I don't care a bit what happens to > any of you, as long as I get what I want.'") > > My first thought is that this is a setup to encourage some discussion on > this point. Actually that sounds reasonable. THE WIZARD is our book, and this forms a possible bone of contention for the Ozzies. > > My wife gave me BoW's "Our Landlady" for my birthday. "The Oz Collector" > says "all copies ordered will have laid into them a bookplate signed by the > editor, Nancy Tystad Koupal." Mine came with the signed bookplate all right, > but it's just a loose square of paper. Am I supposed to paste it into the > book or something? For some reason I was expecting it to be a page that's > actually bound or tipped into the book. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the > point of having the bookplate is. Anyone else who ordered "Our Landlady," > was this your experience too? > That is what a bookplate is. You may stick it in your book, if you wish, or you may keep your book pristine and keep the bookplate separately. Bow did just as they said, they laid the bookplate in for your choice. BTW Bow did not publish OUR LANDLADY, it is from the University of Nebraska Press, Bow only sold it (and got the bookplates signed). On some of BoW's own titles, they have "collector's" editions which are signed by the authors. It would have been much easier for Bow to send a bunch of bookplates to Nancythat to send the whole books. > Oz-Story: > > A bought Volume 2 at a comic store today, mostly because it has "Policeman > Bluejay" in it. Anyone know if Volume 1 is still available? I think it has > "Sam Steele's Adventures." And when is Volume 3 due out? > > -- Craig > Expect OZ-STORY #3 sometime in the first half of the year. Write to David Maxine, you should find the address at the front of #2, about copies of #1 which did include SAM STEELE'S ADVENTURES ON LAND AND SEA (aka THE BOY FORTUNE HUNTERS IN ALASKA) with a few politically incorrect references left out. > I will go so far as to say that Dorothy, at least in the Baum books, is a > little arrogant. For example, she is constantly calling ruler's attention to > the fact that Ozma rules Oz, rules us, and rules YOU, and you had better do > what we say... While she is technically correct, one gets the impression > that she is being a little bit imperious. > She is far worse in March Laumer's THE CHINA DOG IN OZ. > About the films -- I own PATCHWORK GIRL, so I know how impressive it is. As > an Oz aficianado who wants to experience all sorts of Oz, I am interested in > any information regarding the films I named....cast, availability, > (especially) plot descriptions, etc. > Sarah > A full description of the films would be too long for the digest, but if you e-mail me directly I can send you casts and plot descriptions of THE MAGIC CLOAK OF OZ and HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW OF OZ. . Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 13:31:31 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things JELLIA: Nathan DeHoff wrote: >Tyler: >Your point about "A Murder in Oz" and _Seven Blue Mountains_ was a good one. >Since Mombi once switched forms with Jellia, does this mean that a copy of >Mombi is lurking inside of Jellia? Jellia: I sure as shamrocks *hope* not!!! :O IRC: I got a book on Internet Relay Chat out of the library yesterday, so whenever Eric wants to try again, I'll be ready this time... :) (Can you make it on a weekend, though, Eric?) BCF: Well some people on the Digest who are not ready to talk about _Wizard_ privately made their opinions known, therefore I am moving ithe start of the offical discussion up a week. I want to emphasize that I want you all to express your opinions and to let me know when you don't like what I'm doing on the Digest...However, I would appreciate it if in future SOME (not ALL -- most of you guys are as amiable as I could hope for!) of you would be a little more polite about it, and not treat me like some arrogant son-of-a-Li-mon-eag who is out to deliberately and maliciously slight everyone, which is as far from the truth as would *be* an assertion that Ozma is a cruel tyrant! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 10, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:01:50 -0500 (EST) From: JSTEADMAN@loki.berry.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 Everybody: I'm catching up on this weekend--I've not been able to check my e-mail since Thursday or Friday, I can't remember which. Re fashion in Oz: Didn't Jenny Jump introduce the Jenny Jumper? (Sorry, but I couldn't resist.) Re Dorothy's age: My MOPPeT is that she was ten on her first trip and her aging slowed because of subsequent trips. Re Wizard of Oz Computer Game: Yes, Sahutchi, I remember now--it was a Windham Classics game that I was referring to. Now that I, as I said, no longer have my Commodore, if there is an IBM version, I too am interested in it. Scott O.: No, Chris really has that low an opinion of Dorothy. As resourceful and clever as she is, his opinion is that she's had it all too easy. He and I have had this discussion before. Okay, I'll take spunky as an adjective for her. Steven Teller: Ditto (first paragraph above). Re FF on computer: David Hulan mentions "downloading several FF"--perhaps I missed it; are the FF available on the Internet? If so, how do I get to them? (I am still an ameteur on the Web.) Re Digest length: My philosophy is: the more, the merrier (I'm referring to people's input here). The Digest will, in my humble opinion, never be too much to Digest. Craig: I thought I was the only one with that problem (always thinking of more as soon as I've clicked "send", hung up the phone, walked away from the conversation, etc.). Gordon: Hear, hear! (regarding Dorothy's character, I mean). That's it for now (sorry if I ran overtime, so to speak) --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:18:45 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 Dick: "sahutchi" is identified as "Scott Hutchins" in one of his early posts. Eric: You didn't strike any nerves with me. I just expressed an opinion that while I'd miss your comments on the Digest, if it came to a choice between that and people repressing things they want to say about Oz, even if they're somewhat repetitive, I'd regretfully say goodbye to you. The only thing I can remember anyone objecting to about the length of your posts was the amount of quoted material in them. You explained why you wanted to do it that way, it was accepted, and it's been 8-10 months since I remember any objections. If there -were- a newsgroup, I'd be delighted, especially if it were in addition to rather than instead of the Digest. But there isn't one at the moment, as far as I know. If you need support, ask for it! (And tell us what it would consist of; I at least haven't a clue.)(Those who say I haven't a clue about anything will be Officially Scorned...) I remember your talking about it back in April or May, but not recently. Gordon: I won't disagree with your characterization of Dorothy ("a tough, resilient, practical-minded little creature,") at all. That isn't the same thing as "a selfish brat". Five or six I can buy for Dorothy's age (with six being more likely); four is too young for what she seems able to do in the book. (Seven or eight seems likelier yet, and IIRC Hearn's estimate of her age is based on assuming a year between each of the books she appears in up to EC. For several reasons I think they're closer together than that.) Jim: I have a computer with Windows 95 on it, but I only use it for lens design. Putting Ozzy stuff on it would be a waste. Now, if they just had it for Mac... Tyler: Interesting. Is Compuserve finally moving into the 20th century with user IDs that aren't strings of meaningless numbers? (Speaking of Compuserve, my nephew has recently switched to a different service because he was having so much trouble with his E-mail. It ain't just AOL, guys...) Scott O.: Sounds as if you have the ancestry to be more authoritative than I am. I had the impression that it was the other way around - that "-sen" was Norwegian and "-son" was Danish - but my ancestry is English, Irish, Scots, Welsh, and German, not Scandinavian. In any case, Hobson was English, not Scandinavian of any nationality. John W.: I agree with you that Zurline was way out of character in FORGOTTEN FOREST. That's one reason I like it the least of all of Shanower's graphic novels. Dave: Based on your previous setting of Monday (i.e., the next Digest) as the beginning of the WOZ discussion, I've already written up some comments in a separate post. Since it would be inconvenient for me not to post them today (they're sitting in my "mail waiting to be sent" file, and I'd have to copy them elsewhere, delete the mail, and then remember to copy them back into a "to be sent" file in a week), I'm going to do it anyhow, Unofficially. People who want to comment on them can do so, I suppose, and others can either wait to comment until next week or ignore them completely. After all, I'm halfway through rereading LAND now. But I'll try to do my comments for it into a text file that I can put into E-mail when I get the "go" word. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:18:40 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Discussion of WOZ Might I suggest, as a compromise that I don't think would be any extra trouble for Dave yet that would let people uninterested in the discussion of the Book of Current Focus skip that part of the Digest easily, that we post our book discussions, and commentary on them, separately from the rest of our Digest posts? That way those who aren't interested in the discussion can scroll past those posts without having to check every paragraph to see if there's something else hiding in there. A few items that struck me on my latest rereading: 1. When the Tin Woodman is telling his life story, he refers to his father's death and taking care of his "old mother" until her death. While there is no definite chronology, the implication is that it wasn't long after his mother's death that he fell in love with the Munchkin girl, that it wasn't long after that that the Wicked Witch enchanted his axe, and that it wasn't long after that that he was caught in the rain and rusted. In any case, it seems inconsistent with the theory that aging and natural death stopped in Oz several hundred years before the time of Dorothy. 2. This book seems to have fewer Irrelevant Episodes than most of the series, with the major exception being the Dainty China Country. Mostly this is because things that could be IEs (the various obstacles in getting to the EC, primarily) are used to characterize the travelers - particularly to show that the Scarecrow really does have brains, and the lion courage. 3. I remember even as a kid being skeptical that there was enough straw in the Scarecrow to cover Dorothy and the lion well enough to protect them from the bees. Certainly if the relative sizes are similar to Denslow's illustrations it seems unlikely. Even covering Dorothy seems to be stretching it; the lion is far larger. 4. I remember back about a year ago on the Digest a mother commenting on the Cowardly Lion's sneak attack on the giant spider while it was asleep, and asking whether this is a good example for children, or whether the lion should have waked the spider up first so it would have been a fair fight. The only comment I recall was one from Eric Gjovaag arguing for total non-violence in the spirit of Gandhi and King. IIRC, this exchange happened while I was en route from California to Chicago, because I know I thought about responding at the time and then decided that the original discussion had happened too long before for my comments to be relevant to most readers. Reading the passage again, though, brought it back to my mind, and I thought I'd toss in my two cents' worth on the subject. Total non-violence is usually a worthy approach in human affairs, though it does require a willingness to die by the violence of others (as happened to both Gandhi and King). When you're dealing with a wild animal, however, whose only interest in you is as dinner, total non-violence is tantamount to suicide. (Unless, in the case of the animals in the forest in question, they deserted the forest - but in that case they'd probably starve.) As for the question of a "fair fight", that's a whole concept that's never made much sense to me, unless you're talking about something like a formal boxing match, with rules and officials to enforce them. People and animals fight for two reasons. One is to try to impose their will by force on someone they think is weaker (which will may be to eat the other one). That kind of fight is inherently unfair, and never justifiable. The other is to defend themselves or someone else against someone who is trying to impose their will by force on someone they think is weaker. Fighting for that reason, the most efficient way of winning the fight is justified. Based on that, I think the lion's action in beheading the spider while it was asleep was one of only two rational choices, the other of which was to pass through the forest as fast as possible and avoid the whole issue. Neither passive resistance nor a "fair fight" makes any sense at all in the circumstances as described. I'm very interested in what other people will have to say about the first book in the series. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:40:37 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 Thanks to all who set me straight on the _Our Landlady_ bookplate. I had no idea. I didn't mean to suggest it was published by BoW, just distributed by them. Not much else to say except I'm glad I keep my thermostat set low in winter - that last Digest was hot as the Deadly Desert! -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:15:08 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 David: I considered that the Tubbies might wash the clothes for nearby places. It seems fairly likely. BTW, was Monday an official (or unofficial) laundry day at the time that _Grampa_ was written? I always do my laundry on Mondays. Hey, that's tomorrow. John: I agree that Zurline's punishment in _Forbidden Fountain_ was quite harsh. Maybe there was more treachery going on in that forest than just that of the Troll King. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "Takes more than a snuffer to keep me down." -Kabumpo ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:25:49 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Eric - It is wonderful to hear you have such a busy, involved and varied life. However..... the thing that in the past made the Digest too long was the needless copying of people's complete posts before providing an answer. Most of us manage without doing that currently. In any event, IMHO, the Digest is not too long. It would not be very practical to ask Dave to start removing duplicate responses or in any other way acting as some kind of censor. However, as brevity is the sole of something, it's good to have your reminder. And so, onward.... Help! NON OZZY ISSUE FOLLOWS Does anyone recognize a movie, maybe in the 50's, where a baby is thrown from a train wreck into water, father killed, mother survives, baby is rescued by old man's faithful dog, raised by him (man not dog) and later found by her mother? Desperately need to identify this movie. Robin - Thank you for personalizing Dorothy Curtiss Maryott. I'm just glad the heirs of Arthur Conan Doyle can't keep us from enjoying the wonderful collection of imitations that have been written in the last twenty years. Dave - Thank you for the extension on the first BCF. I'll be ready on the 17th Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:07:00 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 Problems with fulfillment of orders and subscriptions to Oz Club journals should be addressed to: The International Wizard of Oz Club Attn: Barb Foster P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, Michigan 49004-0266 Peter ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:06:05 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Bear: Yes! Not only Pagemaker, but Pagemaker for IBM! Gasp! :-) Pagemaker 4 was definitely a bug-eyed (buggy) monster when I worked with that at a former job. Pagemaker 5, which I have, is much better behaved. Hopefully its successor, Pagemaker 6, is better still. (And even more logical.) Quark IS a better desktop-publishing program than Pagemaker 5. Quark is more of a what-you-see-is-what-you-get program--if a graphic does not have a screen preview, by gum Quark creates one and puts it on the screen so you can see what the graphic is supposed to look like! If Pagemaker 4 imports a graphic with no preview, you see a gray box with the graphic's name on it on your monitor instead of a pic. Yes, that definitely defies logic. David Hulan: Orlando Furioso may be more "realistic" than Fairie Queen, but what sort of person calls light-hearted violators of women--or anyone else--heroes? Such "heroes" should be called evil cads and black-hearted villains. films that show young men being systematically stripped of their humanity and turned into killing machines by brutal training instructors. Poor L. Frank Baum went through that, and it almost killed him. As it was, he came out of military school with more weakened and damaged heart than he went in with. One fellow I met said he came out of the military with violent feelings, and it took a long time for him to get his conscience and respect for life back. :-( It has been mentioned that L. Frank Baum was one of the few back then who recognized that war is dehumanizing. John White: Good points about the events of "Forbidden Forest." I take it that you consider it, and its version of Zurline, heretical. Either that, or Eric's Zurline is an imposter! :-) She definitely is harsher than the Zurline of the "Life and Adventures" I downloaded recently. Eric probably wrote his story the way he did because "nice" is unfashionable in today's comics. Side point: Frustrated, impossible, unrequited or forbidden love appears in all of Eric's graphic novels--and propels the plot in at least four--Bortag's unrequited love for the Wicked Witch of the South, Knotboy's for Princess Trin, the Ice King for Dorothy and then Ozma, Nelanthe's forbidden kiss with that "mortal man," and finally Flinder's unrequited love for Abatha. Also, Knotboy's name was originally Toyboy--but Eric changed it when Continuity Comics came out with "Jason Kriter, Toyboy" first. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:23:22 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-09-97 Re: Gordon's reply about Chris D's comments that "Dorothy's apparent selfishness are not merely conjecture. His summary of Dorothy's attitude ('I don't care a bit what happens to any of you, as long as I get what I want.') is a paraphrase of a quotation from Chapter Five..." Very interesting. I've never thought about it that way before. It's amazing what you can learn here. Re: Gordon's comment about Jane's Oz collection was set in the context of segments [that later highlighted] kooky collections of sunflowers and hair art. Perhaps, but I've been called kooky (and worse) for collecting Oz! Re: Tyler wrote "Dimitri responses: Since this person is not on the digest, he will not be able to see any of your responses." It's probably just as well... Re: Danny's problem getting Bugle Go to the IWOC homepage. I believe there's a section in there for member's problems, or something like that. In fact, there's probably someone on this very digest who can help you, so in a way, you've always had the power to...oh never mind..... Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:44:11 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz (is there any other subject, really?) I am probably a couple of days behind already. The last Digest I read was already at least a day old, and I probably have a couple more to look at as soon as I check my mail. Anyway, I was shocked and horrified to learn that no one else has read WWoO [ That's _Wonderful Wizard_ -- not _Wicked Witch_ -- _of Oz_ -- Dave :) ] and remembered Dorothy to any degree. Throughout the book she comes across as an immature little baby. I think I had also forgotten until re-reading the book later, so it isn't so big a deal that you guys forgot. Any re-reading of even a brief section will instantly tap your memory. Pick any page at random. But to try to find one of the several places where a quote like that is made, I have just flipped to page 61 of the BoW version (for those of you who, like me, have started with mostly Del Rey and don't have that page # in the same place, it is Chapter V, The Rescue of the TM). But this is not an isolated quote. I think re-reading pretty much any page will have you wanting to give this brat a spanking. Unless, of course, I am assuming Dorothy to be several years older than she is. I can accept a lot more immaturity from an infant than I can from a Kindergartener. In fact, the one and ONLY time when she seems to think of anyone besides herself is when her personal dog is in danger from the Lion. Had it been someone else's dog, I think she'd have been far less quick to show any concern at all. Okay, Rinny also reminds me of the fact that she fed the Lion while a prisoner of the Witch. Of course, there again, it was for the sake of her own need for a friend, but it was something. My point was that Fairuza Balk's character was CONSIDERABLY more mature than Baum's. I'd have to say that, at the age of 2, my niece was, too. Again, a 2-year old has more right to be immature than an older child. I don't think this was one of the books that actually GAVE her exact age, and I do not think Denslow asked before drawing her. If RtO is supposed to take place in 1899, when did she make her FIRST trip to Oz? (Yeah, I know, it was 1939...). I am willing to accept the idea that there were several years between these two incidents (Ummm... No, I don't mean that. RtO is Disney, not HACC. Having just re-read Dorothy & Wizard, I have to say that she seems a lot more mature here, too. But, boy, is the Wizard a meanie! But not as rude and sharp-tongued as our pals seem to be in Land... I am getting way ahead of the focus book. I will stop it and wait for their turns to come up). FWIW, I don't enjoy these early Oz books nearly as much as most of the later ones. I tend to assume that Baum hadn't expected to write any more about Oz, so didn't bother to focus on any clear vision of the place. As for the revolving ages of everyone, it is theorized in The Forest Monster of Oz (now being illustrated) that Ozma has the ability to do things like change her hair color at will. She has the magic to do a lot more than that, so why not? This is one explanation for her fluctuating hair color. And she says that, in the event she ever must have a meeting with dignitaries who might not accept her youthful form, she can appear to them any way she likes -maybe even as an elderly man! No, she doesn't actually display this last one. It's sort of an unspoken but implied... Off the top of my head, I'd have to imagine her close buddies could ask her to do the same for them. Maybe... Or not... There are probably other things I was supposed to reply to, but I want to catch up on reading the Digests before I try to remember them all... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! Sarah Hadley wrote: <> I remember seeing it when her show was on in the early '60's, before I'd even read the book. But I'd love to see it again... David Hulan wrote: <> Not quite true; Gureeda in SPEEDY IN OZ wore pants (both described in the text and shown in the illustrations). But she, of course, was native to...and followed the fashions of...Umbrella Island, not Oz. Aaron Adelman wrote: <> Well, Seebania was said in OJO to incorporate the entire Southern part of the Munchkin Country, no doubt to explain at least partially Unk Nunkie's claim to be heir to the "Munchkin" throne. Perhaps Seebania incorporates those "Munchkins" who are *not* physical midgets, including Unk Nunkie and Ojo, Nick Chopper, and the farmer who made the Scarecrow of his cast-off clothes (judging by the fact that both the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman are full-sized men)? And perhaps Dr. Pipt and Margolotte, but probably not (the evidence of the books is that he's actually the transplanted Gillikin, Dr. Nikidik). About the only other instance I can think of is the Land of the Barons in JACK PUMPKINHEAD, which incorporates at least a few separate baronies, including Bourne and Baffleburg. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Ironic, and rather unfair, since Thompson herself cut her Ozzy teeth by using characters created by L. Frank Baum, and (despite a few criticisms here and there) for the most part did anything but "change and corrupt them." Besides, other writers have used Thompson characters in the past (ranging from John R. Neill in his three FF books to the McGraw's featuring Kabumpo in an important role in FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN); was it some recent event that caused Maryott to change her mind? Or was it, perhaps, a feeling going back to 1946, in which case Jack Snow's sometimes-criticized refusal to use any Thompson characters may not have been by his own choice? <<"The Wind and the Wizard" is a remarkable two volume work which takes its protagonist to Oz and several other worlds seeking the meaning of his existance. Among the other worlds is that of THE WATER BABIES.>> I remember reading a review (I think) of it in THE BAUM BUGLE. Didn't the worlds include also those of Wonderland and Neverland, all visited by a boy named Bertie who was destined to grow into a great scientist and/or philosopher? I remember thinking that Bertie himself was probably drawn from real life rather than literature (perhaps a young Albert Einstein or Bertrand Russell?), in order to distinguish his world from the others. (Besides which, the only well- known literary Bertie I could think of was P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie Wooster, and the only way he'd ever get renowned as a scientist or a philosopher would be if Jeeves ghosted his papers for him.) Robin Olderman wrote: <> I'm in definite agreement there, as I've mentioned before. In THE WICKED WITCH OF OZ, Dorothy's T-shirt and shorts were a lot more practical than Neill's dresses would have been, besides enabling Dorothy to survive the sequence in which she grew (and then lost) wings with both her clothes and her dignity intact. Yes, I know the book was originally written in the '50's, but even then girls often wore jeans or shorts for informal occasions...and Shanower still has them dress more formally on court occasions. (Ironically, the only women he's never shown in pants of any kind are Glinda and Ozma, both of whom evidently feel compelled to preserve their queenly dignity at all times...though it must be especially frustrating for Ozma, who grew up wearing pants as Tip...) <> I'm sure I would, and that she has good reason for her policy. Did she indeed object to the treatment of Kabumpo in FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN (the only non-FF, non-Thompson Oz book I can think of that used any of Thompson's characters extensively) or was she "burned" by some other book I don't know about? Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> And here I just reread the book and was about to launch into an involved discussion...which, now that it's after midnight, I'm just as happy to postpone. But to touch on a couple of topics that have already been discussed at some length... DOROTHY'S PERSONALITY: I certainly don't see her as the spoiled brat one or two people have. She clearly cares about her dog, Toto, and her three companions, often crying for them and always doing everything she can to help them. She even has sympathy for strangers who've given her reason to dislike them (like the Wizard and the Winged Monkeys). No, as far as I'm concerned, she's a very admirable little girl. DOROTHY'S AGE: I'm inclined to think that she's a lot older than, as one Ozian suggested, four. Even Michael Patrick Hearn's estimate of 5 or 6 seems a bit on the young side, given that she can read complex sentences, and take care of herself and her dog (something even most 7- year-olds would have trouble doing...a matter I had to consider in some detail in co-breeding a litter of puppies and giving some serious thought to what families, all of whose adult members were often at work all day, to sell them to). Even compressing the years between publication of the books and suggesting that her time in Oz slowed down her aging process does require that she be several years younger than her final age of 11, though. My best guess is that she's around 8 (the estimate of, among others, Rob Roy McVeigh) at the time of WIZARD. Which isn't even inconsistent with Hearn's observation that Denslow depicts her wearing a dress more appropriate to a 5- or 6-year-old. Baum makes it clear that her family isn't very well off and that she had only two dresses, both of which were relatively old. If the dress still fits her after two years, it could be because the Gales originally bought a dress slightly too big so she'd grow into it, and/or let out the seams to enlarge it as she grew older...both common practices in buying clothes for children, not necessarily restricted to the poorest families. A MARKET QUESTION: In their biography of W.W. Denslow, Douglas G. Greene and Michael Patick Hearn maintains that THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ has sold more copies than any other children's book written by an American. Is this documented? Is it undisputed that it's sold more copies than THE ADVENTURES OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN or THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD or THE POKY LITTLE PUPPY or THE CAT IN THE HAT, all of which have been the subject of similar claims? FUTURE DISCUSSIONS: Since the consensus seems to be that we should start with WIZARD and cover the books in order, I also think we should stick to the FF, and not interpolate Baum's other books...not even SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND, as has been suggested. Even if they do introduce characters who later turn up in Oz, there's no more reason for including them than there is for, say, THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO or JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB. Yes, SKY ISLAND was one of Baum's best fantasies, but so were THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW and QUEEN ZIXI OF IX, and on the flip side I'd say THE SEA FAIRIES was one of Baum's worst fantasies. (Maybe if he'd done SKY ISLAND first, Reilly & Lee might have had more success in selling Baum's attempts to move his fantasies outsize Oz, and even gone on to publish RINKITINK in its original, non-Oz form.) Unless, indeed, we truly do go ahead and try to discuss *all* of Baum's books, or rather all his children's fantasies (does anyone really *want* to track down AUNT JANE'S NIECES and its sequels? I didn't think so). And, aside from our already skipping THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO (which, at least in its original incarnation as A NEW WONDERLAND, predated WIZARD), most of us would have a hard time indeed tracking down copies of DOT AND TOT IN MERRYLAND...and, I fear, an even harder time getting through it (since, in my far-from-exclusive opinion, it made THE SEA FAIRIES read like THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ by comparison). No, let's do the FF! In order! And I can hardly wait... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:26:55 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4,6-7,13 Pant, pant. I fell far behind in my Digest reading in December, but am only three days late now. There is hope that I will catch up soon! Jeremy Steadman say in the 2/4 Digest, No, that's a doe john. In this mundane world, john dough is the money that the ladies of the night earn. Speaking of the mundane world, it is encouraging to see a part of it adopt one of the more sensible characteristics of Oz. Case in point, the Ancient Principality of Seborga (written up in the 2/9 _Washington Post_ Style section). This tiny, self-proclaimed monarchy within northwest Italy has an army of one, Lt. Antonello Lacala. The article fails to mention if he has green whiskers. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:43:03 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz Digest Aaron: Dick Rutter was the primary source for the pastich/parody list on the IWOC reference page (and the foreign translation material in the chronology, for that matter). Checking with him for more detail might be your best bet, although he sent me a copy of his own index, and I imagine he included all the information he had in it. I'll try to find his original document and e-mail you privately if there's more to it. By the way, if you wind up with a more exhaustive list, I can work with Jim to swap out the IWOC list or link to yours. My intent with the Club's reference site stems to our Club's educational function for the public. I thought that list could provide clueless public folks with a gasp of surprise when they see how much there is to Oz with which they are unfamiliar; and to prompt the addition of casual facts to articles ("writers continue to pen new Oz books to this day, and a fun variety of parodies have blah blah blah..") that might, in turn, prompt more people to grow curious and see additional Oz material. Your work, and that of most Oz Digest participants, seems more geared to people who already are knowledgeable and enthusiastic about Oz. Craig, "Laid in" means just that, it's laid in between a couple of the pages. For people who would not appreciate having a bookplate (even with Nancy's signature) adhered to a book, this provides the best of both worlds. Lick and stick it if you want to; don't if you don't. Sarah: Reading Adventures in Oz was designed to develop reading skills in young children. It has "click on everything that begins with the letter 'c' " kinds of activities. As I remember it (I went through it only when I bought it), many characters from the Oz series are named, but their appearance pays not tribute to the descriptions you would find in the series. Button Bright, for example, is a tough little bully. Glinda is a black woman with a towering beehive hairstyle. None of the artwork reflects Denslow or Neill in any particular. You can select different reading skill levels at the beginning and you are represented as a Scarecrow, Lion or Tin Man as you go through the program. I tend to pick up anything Oz that's impulse priced, so I am happy to have it, but don't expect it to add much to your enjoyment of Oz. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:10:18 -0500 (EST) From: DAVID PARKER HISTORY Subject: Oz citations In Friday's Digest, Dimitri Gontscharow wrote: "I think the reason the movie was made when it was, is that it was a gentle but telling allegory for staying out of WWII. The year in which it was released, 1939, was filled with strong calls for isolationism and I think this movie was meant to illustrate the danger of foreign entanglements...." In the journal _Film & History_ 15 (1985), pp. 37-45, is an article by Lynette Carpenter entitled "'There's No Place Like Home': The Wizard of Oz and American Isolationism." The movie's "sentimental message [Carpenter wrote] reflects the spirit of isolationism prevalent in Hollywood and in the country as a whole: 'There's no place like home.'" In Saturday's Digest, Dave Hardenbrook asked about "an article that rebuked another article that bashed the late Carl Sagan. I forget how it came about (this was about 10 years ago), but the discussion launched into a parody-interpretation of _Wizard of Oz_, in which it was argued in jest that _Wizard_ is meant to advance the agnostic point of view...." The original article was by Richard A. Baer, Jr., in _Christianity Today_, Feb. 17, 1984 issue. Baer criticized Sagan's Cosmos TV program as a "devious conspiracy to force the religion of humanism into unsuspecting schoolchildren under the guise of science." The reply, by Leo Miletich, begins: "You see what you look for. To prove it, I am going to do some interpreting of hidden symbols myself and demonstrate how easy and how much fun it can be.... Using the Baer method of interpretation, I am going to reveal that The Wizard of Oz, that sweet, family-oriented annual visitor to our living room television screens, goggled at by millions of children who don't know that they are being brainwashed, is actually a sinister anti-Christian polemic that endorses humanism." But--and I really hate to admit this--I can't find the citation for Miletich's article. I know I've got it written down somewhere, but all I could find in a quick search of my filing cabinet was a photocopy of two pages of Miletich's piece. I'll keep looking, and if I come across the citation, I'll pass it on. -- David Parker David B. Parker dparker@ksumail.kennesaw.edu Assistant Professor of History Kennesaw State University phone: (770) 423-6713 1000 Chastain Rd. or 423-6294 Kennesaw, Ga. 30144-5591 fax: (770) 423-6432 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:45:13 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SAGAN/OZ ARTICLE: David P. wrote: >I know I've >got it written down somewhere, but all I could find in a quick search of my >filing cabinet was a photocopy of two pages of Miletich's piece. I'll keep >looking, and if I come across the citation, I'll pass it on. Thanks! OZZY SUBJECTS: I think David H.'s subject line saying "Discussion of WOZ" for the BCF discussion of _Wizard_ is a good idea and hope others will adopt it. (And why don't we all say _Wizard_ to mean _The (Wonderful) Wizard of Oz_, since it's too easy to mistake "WWoOz" as meaning _Wicked Witch of Oz_...) BEAR'S "GROWLS": >Eric - It is wonderful to hear you have such a busy, involved and varied life. >However..... the thing that in the past made the Digest too long was the >needless copying of people's complete posts before providing an answer. Most >of us manage without doing that currently. In any event, IMHO, the Digest is >not too long. It would not be very practical to ask Dave to start removing >duplicate responses or in any other way acting as some kind of censor... Thank you...You took the "growls" right out of my mouth! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Hi everyone! I'm sorry to be sending today's Digest the "old way" again, but Delphi is still giving me problems...(Maybe I should have stuck to Delphi's old by-the-hour charging scheme...) -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:09:28 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: oz digest Aaron S. Adelman: If you're interested in information about the early books influenced by "Wizard of Oz," look up Barbara Koelle's article in the"Bugle" some years back on the topic. She includes some comments on Eva Katherine Gibson's "Zauberlinda," and I think also Grace Duffie Boylan's "Yama Yama Land." I have a vague recollection that what you call "Pinkies and the Winkies" is from 1913 (date of 19113 looks like a typo, and I think there's a typo in the title, too) and is also mentioned in her article. I'll try to remember to look up title and date of the article for you. David Hulan: You're right that lions appear in heraldry of both Scotland and England. In editorial- cartoon-imagery, the lion has long been a symbol of Britain (as in "twisting the lion's tail"). Dmitri Gontscharow's interpretation of the 1939 Cowardly Lion as a symbol of France is probably impossible. Interpreting the Cowardly Lion as a symbol of Britain would probably be possible, but even that, of course, would be immensely unlikely. It's easy to read allegories into stories, and usually a mistake. (Authors who really want to write allegories usually try to make the fact that the story is allegorical fairly obvious.) Eric Gjovaag: I think you misinterpreted in your "lose the attitude" comment to people who don't think the OzD is too long. They were saying that too long is better than too short, and can be handled by skimming or skipping as needed. You added an explanation of why you didn't think that was enough of a solution, and the added explanation is appropriate -- but the "lose the attitude" attitude is unnecessary, and even rude. It's fine if you complain that the length of the OzD is too long, but you need to cool it on such phrases as "lose the attitude," "need to take a dose of their own medicine," and "bend somebody's nose out of joint." Try "I disagree, because -- ." Craig Noble: Subject to more expert comment (as it might be Herm Bieber), I'd think $40 is a bargain for a nice copy of Denslow's "The Pearl and the Pumpkin." Nice artwork, and a fairly interesting story. $150 is probably ridiculous for "Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies" -- the artist is not someone especially noted, and the text of the story is in "Animal Fairy Tales," which I think is still available from the Oz Club (with artwork by Dick Martin). Gordon Birrell: I like your comments on the "puzzled to know which of her two friends was right" scene, and agree with you that it shows Dorothy as sensible rather than selfish. Robin Olderman: Liked your story about Dorothy Maryott. As Tyler Jones pointed out, she has been refusing permission for RPT's still-copyright-characters to be used, because that is how RPT wanted it. Many authors feel that way about their characters, and considering how much of their hearts they put into their characters, and how easy it is for a pastiche to go wrong, it's easy enough to see why. And, after all, it's easy enough to rewrite a story to get rid of copyright violations. For instance, if Scott doesn't find that either Zeb or Button Bright makes a reasonable substitute -- he could invent an original boy character who visited Oz at some time the Royal Historians didn't happen to record or mention. And that way he'd be set up to write a prequel about the boy's first visit, if he felt like it, later on. Apologies, by the way, if the odd lines breaks that result from sending my OzD stuff as an "enclosure" rather than composing on line, make my segments hard for people to read. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:28:05 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: For the Digest--Digest Length Sender: BARLOW NATE I haven't tried reading the entire Digest for months, since I can only read mail from work and I rarely have more than a few minutes there to read personal mail. I just skim it really quickly and read the posts that interest me. Something that was done on the first digest I ever received [The National Midnight Star, the Rush (the band) fans mailing list] was that the Subject: line of each post was printed at the top of the digest, so you knew where to go (approximately) to find the posts you were interested in. I'm not sure how easy that would be for Dave (how automatic is the Digest generation now?); to be effective, it would also require the rest of us to put a descriptive Subject: line. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 Re Dorothy's age (Part II): Oksy, I can buy eight for WIZARD, although I think nine likelier yet. Re WIZARD (I'm saying this now while I'm thinking about it; those of you with better memories than mine can hold my thoughts until later if you want; I can't):: David Hulan: You say regarding the Tin Woodman: "While there is no definite chronology, the implication is that it wasn't long after his mother's death that he fell in love with the Munchkin girl, that it wasn't long after that that the Wicked Witch enchanted his axe, and that it wasn' long after that that he was caught in the rain and rusted. In any case, it seems inconsistent with the theory that aging and natural death stopped in Oz several hundred years before the time of Dorothy." I do not have a copy of WIZARD in front of me (shame on me, I know), but it seems to me logically that the Tin Woodman's perception of time did not necessarily correspond to how it actually passed. After all, if one does the same thing for hours at a time without stopping (regardless of what it is), time seems to flow differently. Your scathing review of `Irrelevant Episodes' is, I feel, unwarranted, as they add texture to the Oz series (when not overdone); however, I agree that WoOZ contains far fewer than later books. Perhaps that is what makes it one of the best of the whole series. I must agree with your comments concerning "fair fights" and "passive resistance" under the circumstances. Personal request: I don't believe anybody responded to a question I asked at some point recently (sorry if someone did and I missed it), concerning "Oz books on the Internet." If there is a way to access such books, I'd appreciate it much if someone would let me know how, as the Berry College library carries few of the series (certainly none beyond Baum). Chris D.: I respect you and what you've done for promoting Oz here in the USA, but I still disagree with you about Dorothy. Even in WIZARD she did not come across to me in the way you describe. And no, I did not see the movie first. Note some of the later responses in yesterday's DIGEST. Sorry to end on quite the note I did (a B-flat, actually), Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:45:32 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 David: It seems odd that both of Nick Chopper's parents died, but Nick himself did not, even when he was cut to pieces. If death ended between the death of Nick's parents and the enchantment of his axe, it might explain it, but I don't know for sure. I agree that it was intelligent for the lion to kill the spider while it slept. The lion generally makes fairly intelligent choices, which he considers to be cowardly. Rich: The Munchkins are described as midgets in _Wizard_, and Denslow also draws the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman as about the same height as Dorothy. In _Dorothy and the Wizard_, the Munchkin that Zeb fights is short. After this book, however, I do not recall any mention of the Munchkins being any shorter than any other people. The Ozurians, for instance, are described as tall. A recent Oz Gazette suggests that Baum underestimated the size of the Munchkins. Another possibility is that the Wicked Witches somehow shrank many of the people of Oz (not just the Munchkins, as Locasta and the people of the Emerald City are also described as diminutive). Any other thoughts on the heights of Ozites? I am pretty sure that it was Jack Snow's own choice not to use Thompson characters in his works. Snow only considered Baum's books to be genuine Oz, and he had not read many of the Thompson books. Neill did use Thompson's characters, but there is a good chance that he got her permission to do so. They did know each other, after all. Also, I believe that the copyrights on the books were held by the publishers back when Neill was writing Oz books. I understand that Thompson's characters cannot be used for profit without some of the money going to the copyright holder. Why is it, however, that the charaters cannot be used in books published by non-profit organizations? I was the one who suggested that Dorothy was four years old in _Wizard_, but I agree that this was actually quite unlikely. I used this age to allow a wide space of time in between this book and _Ozma_, which was written several years later. I don't know if _Wizard_ sold more copies than any other children's book, but it was considerably older than some of the books that you mentioned, and had more time in which to be sold. _Huckleberry Finn_ was older than _Wizard_, but I wouldn't really consider _Huckleberry Finn_ to be a children's book. _Dot and Tot_ is available from Books of Wonder, so it wouldn't be all that hard for someone to find a copy if we were to discuss this book. Personally, I do not own a copy, and have not read it. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I found out folks don't really care much for the truth." -The Truth Teller ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:10:33 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 Earl: Gag! Glad you're back anyway. Pearl and Pumpkin: $40 sounds o.k. Copyright: The discussions are starting to sound silly to me. Yeah, I know you'll be aggravated that I said that, but I find it hard to believe that some folks are equating their desire to use copyrighted characters to a valid reason to do so. "I should get to do it 'cause I want to" is what it sounds like. RPT used Baum's characters with permission.Neill and McGraw used previous characters with the same type of permission. Snow avoided post-Baum characters by choice, but note that he does include them in _Who's Who_ where he couldn't reasonably exercise his preference. These people were acting as official "Royal Historians of Oz," writing official Oz books, not pastiches. Does that make a difference. Yes. "Aunt Ruthie" was a practical businesswoman when it came to her writings. Oh, I give up. You're going to think what you want to think. I wish I were strong enough to just let it go by without responding to it. Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:58:01 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 David: Last time I proposed a newsgroup, all the responses were basically resounding "NO"s. Never mind that most of those responding didn't even know what a newsgroup WAS... But it burned me enough that I've kept my mouth shut about it. When -- if -- I propose it again, I hope people will have the courtesy to ask "What's a newsgroup?" instead of rejecting it outright out of ignorance. Jane: I tried licking-and-sticking my "Our Landlady" bookplate. All I got was a soggy bookplate and a wet spot on the title page. (Fortunately, after a bit of drying, a touch of glue did the trick.) Everybody: It seems that once again my subtle, polite approach has failed to get my point across. Therefore, I will try the unsubtle, clubbing over the head approach. In my post about the length of the "Digest" I SAID I DID NOT WANT DAVE TO DO ANY MORE WORK, OR TO CENSOR ANY- THING, NOR DID I WANT TO IMPOSE ANY SORT OF STRICT, IMFLEXIBLE CONSTRAINTS!!! All I ask is that individual posters excercise a little SELF CONSTRAINT!!! NOT SELF CENSORING, JUST A LITTLE SELF CONSTRAINT!!! --Eric "NOW PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME!" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:58:40 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Long digests: The total digest in January was 84% larger than in December, mostly due to the Poll results being displayed. I do not see it growing that much again, though. David: Ah ha, that was it. I'll check my HACC and move _Glass Cat_ if necessary. For those of you who don;t know, I adjusted the dates of the first nine of the FF to account for the non-aging (or slight aging) of the children who made repeat visits to Oz, counting _Sky Island_ and _Sea Fairies_. They will go in to the HACC as soon as I get a round tuit. Fashion note: In 1980, a fifth-grade student named Geordie Strain wore a baseball cap backwards. This was extremely advanced fashion, though, and it makes sense that we were in California when we did it. This happened in Menlo Park, close to where Bear lives. It was during a play and he was portraying the misbehaving child. He did this to be even MORE rebellious. Perhaps he started a trend. By 1983, it had spread from Northern California to Southern California where Barry and Becky lived. Nathan: Great Hippikaloric! I've really opened the Pandora's box on this one, since there have been so many transformations in the Oz series. To put a sort of "salary cap" on this, perhaps we can assume that it takes a few years for the new persona to "grow" based on the transformation. Sub-kingdoms of Pumperdink: ********** SPOILER FOR _PURPLE PRINCE_ ********** In _Purple Prince_, after Faleero took over the kingdom, Kabumpo and Randy sneaked (or is that snuck?) out of Pumperdink, and RPT mentioned them passing through several of the small villages that make up the kingdom of Pumperdink. While RPT did not actually mention anything, it is reasonable to assume that each village had some sort of mayoral figure who ran the day-to-day affairs of the village while Pompus oversaw the whole. Zurline: It seems that John is correct in pointing out Zurline's extreme deviation from character in _Forgotten Forest_. Maybe this explanation can be resolved some day in another Oz book... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:15:48 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 Scott: My wife says anyone (me included) who collects anything is a little kooky. I think what she really means is that it's kooky to be obsessive-compulsive about our collections (which, alas, I sometimes tend to be). That's all right, though, because in all my life I've never met anyone who's not a little kooky. I'm thankful for that b/c otherwise the world would be a boring place. :) -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:25:27 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 Re: Craig's "I'm glad I keep my thermostat set low in winter - that last Digest was hot as the Deadly Desert!" LOL! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:08:21 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz I was going to write something Ozzy again, but have forgotten what it was. While reading the last Digest, AOL signed me off. Ever since they went to a one-price per month for unlimited use they've started doing that. Sometimes they give me a little window saying something like "You have been online for X minutes. You will be signed off in 10 minutes if you do not respond." Other times, I just get a nasty little window that says I have been signed off due to inactivity (usually while involved in reading somebody's web page). Maybe I should switch back to the hourly rate? This is so aggravating! And it took me at least twenty tries to get back on (I have only one access #, and it is ofttimes busy). Jeremy: Did I actually say that about Dorothy? I may have. Probably in a bad mood that day. And I confess that my recent statement on the Digest was actually a comparison of her and Fairuza, and I think F is more amiable than D. But I will say that I like her better in later books than in Wizard. I think that was her worst Ozzy time. She matured by many years by the next time she went to Oz. I like her much better then. But I still like Fairuza better... Of all the girls who have really gone to Oz, I think Betsy is my favorite. Of the boys, probably Robin. But, as Melody pointed out to me once, the angle of that piece of merry-go-round pole was dangerous! What if they had to make a sudden stop? He'd have been impaled on it! Whoever: There was a discussion at one time about Dorothy & the Wizard's time frame. I had placed it at 1908 (pub year), but Hugh Pendexter III's Oz & the Three Witches says that it was "The Great California Earthquake." Is this a Pendexter-ism, or did Baum actually say that? If it was any particular earthquake, I see nothing in D&W that says so. Pendexter had a few other heretical aspects in this book, but overall it is a LOT more upbeat than D&W (which I think may be Baum's most depressing Oz book, unless Glinda already claimed that title). I have been to the post office today, so if anyone has been anxiously waiting for something to arrive, it might actually do so soon. I am going to have to send out a bunch more later. If you are one of those people who are still waiting on As the Clock Strikes Oz, I am, too. It may arrive tomorrow, though. 'Twas UPSed from Neb. on Friday. If you are waiting on Fairy Circle or Green Goblins, go read the BCF and don't hold your breath. I have a feeling that the press is having a very busy month and they may take a tad longer than usual. If ever these three come back, I think next up will be Magic Ruby (at last!). I am having a good year so far. Has to be you folks that are making it happen. If so, thanks! It still seems, though, that Tin Castle is by far the most popular. Is this because it deals with a familiar character and his home, or is it that the author has a lot of friends? On that last subject, I think Tin Castle is a book that Ghandi would have liked. It has no villain, no violence, and no evil. I think I'll stop now before Eric G. accuses the Digest of being too long again. Besides, aol is anxious to cut me off any second now and I don't want to have to start over... ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:47:27 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: pastiches To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Here are some additional details on the pastiches I reported on Friday: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR OZ PASTICHES------------------ DER WIZARD IN OZZENLAND by Dave Morah. Curtis Books,1962. 94 pages. A sample of the text: "Ein fraulein genamen Dorothy ben catchen ein passen whirlenwind und landen in Oxxenland mit der noggen geswimmen." Dorotby finds "ein Tinnish Woodenchopper" and "ein Scarencrow upstucken on ein sitckenpole." They meet "ein Cowardisch Lion. Himmel! Das Lion ben starven und dorothy is proven ein blessen." The Moral: "Finden ein Wizard nicht ben simplisch." "The Flying Thief of Oz" by John L. Breen. ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY MAGAZINE: April 1976, pp.76-89. ZAUBERLINDA, THE WISE WITCH, by Eva Katherine Gibson. Pictures by Mabel Tibbitts. Chicago: Robert Smith, 1901. This book looks like a WWOO rip-off. There are monochrome chapter title pages and monochrome illustrations that overlap the test. It deals with a little girl named Annie who lives on a farm in the Dakotas. "Around the farm, on all sides, wide rolling prairies stretched away, without houses, trees or hills. . . ." Her only playmates are her doll and her cat, Silvertip. She rescues a Prairie Dog, who turns out to be the sone of the Gnome King. She wanders into and around the other world lands with her cat, until (the final chapter title) "The Lost Child is Carried Home." Phyllis Ann Karr once wrote an essay showing that Ms Gibson's text might not really be a WWOO clone, although books format is. YAMA YAMA LAND, by Grace Duffie Boylan. Chicago: Reilly & Britton, 1909. This book is Copyright M. Witmark & Sons, who published the music for the 1902 play THE WIZARD OF OZ. I believe the book is based on a stage musical (the reverse of WOO). It has colored plates and monochrome page illustrations, like WWOO. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:34:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Characterization of Dorothy 1) Chris et. al., Dorothy in _Wizard_ never struck me as particularly selfish; practical, yes, but selflessness in the face of starvation is a fool's virtue. Even Dorothy's constant worrying about getting home doesn't strike me as a fault; if memory serves me correctly (I haven't run across the relevant quote yet in my agonizingly slow rereading yet), she was worried about the impact of her disappearance on Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, financially as well as emotionally. If Dorothy had been truly selfish, she would have taken advantage of her accidental killing of Gingemma and, duplicating what Oscar Diggs did, become Queen (or perhaps Witch) of the East. 2) On Zurline being out of character in _Forgotten Forest_, what if she wasn't? The Nome King in _The Life and Adventures of Sata Claus_ is also a different personality from the one in the Oz books, and the _Santa_ Nome King has children as well--and no one has seen Roquat-Ruggedo's kids, if they do exist. If the Shannower Zurline can be called historically inaccurate for being _Santa_-inaccurate, then logic would would dictate that several FF books be deemed historically inaccurate as well. As this would not be a good move for Tyler to make in the HACC, let me propose instead that _Santa_ be filed in the HI/RCC. Making use of my informant theory, I'm sure that a decent story can be squeezed out of this... Prof. Wogglebug: Mr. Claus, you claim that all the information you gave the Royal Historian L. Frank Baum was accurate, is that correct? Santa Claus: It is. Wogglebug: If so, how do you explain all the discrepancies that were brought before this tribunal? Santa: A young Kenneth Gage Baum altered the manuscripts. Wogglebug: I doubt that, considering this book. (Presents the Judge with a copy of _The Curious Cruise of Captain Santa_.) Santa: Uh-oh. (Escapes from the courtroom with the help of armed ryls and knooks.) 3) David, I was under the impression that Oz didn't become deathless until a few years after Ozma came to power. As late as _Little Wizard Stories of Oz_, the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger predict (wrongfully) that they will die relatively soon. 4) Nathan, David, I thought that the Tubbies were nonhistoricals, beings who popped into existence on the whim of the Magic Machine. As evidence of this, consider this: if the Tubbies had been historical, how did they come to be so absurdly laundry-centered? 5) Rich, I always assumed that only the three little men who greeted Dorothy were superlatively short. Come to think of it, Gingemma probably was as well, considering that Dorothy wore her Shoes. The other Munchkins I always assumed were more normal sized, at best being a little shorter than people in the rest of Oz. I don't recall any reference to Munchkins in general being smaller than other Ozites. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 12, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:19:42 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Robin wrote: (1) Someone mentioned to me that you are an amateur book dealer. If so, got any surplus books for us? :-) (2) we're quite short of auction material this year and WE NEED DONATIONS AND CONSIGNMENTS (3) if you mean do you contact me if you want to sell something to IWOC or put it on consignment, yes, that's fine. Joel replies: (1) "amateur" is an understatement, as the few books I sell/trade are usually priced at exactly what I paid for them. Someday I'll learn... I also sell a few for friends who have upgraded. However, I have come across a good deal of duplicates in the past two years and have done nothing about it until now. I also have some other children's & illustrated books. I just finished a sale/trade list, and would be happy to email it to anyone interested (2+3) I would be happy to consign items from my list, and will email a copy to you. I particularly enjoy donating items for the children's auction and watching the heated bidding. Some of the items that are not sold from the list I will bring to the Winkies to donate. Craig wrote: Some books I've seen at local stores: Denslow's "The Pearl and the Pumpkin" - Any good? Worth $40 in first edition? Good condition except for totally faded spine. "Jaglon and the Tiger Fairies" - Very good to fine condition, dust jacket has a couple of one-inch chips, otherwise good. $150 is still beyond my budget, unless someone tells me this is just an incredible find. Craig: I really like Pearl and the Pumpkin =A9 if it is a solid copy $40 is very reasonable. If you don't buy it, perhaps you could share the name of the store with everyone so someone else can. Jaglon is overpriced at $150. Joel Harris ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:42:46 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 2/8 Digest, David Hulan suggests that Jane's problem with dropped-out words or lines in submissions to the Digest may be just an AOL problem. I use Juno for e-mail and have experienced the problem twice. On the Windham Classics _The Wizard of Oz_ game: I have two copies of the game for Apple II+, IIe and IIc and would be happy to give them to those who still run any of those machines. E-mail me offline at earlabbe@juno.com, if you are interested. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:23:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy postscript Aaron S. Adelman: I checked, and Barbara Koelle's article about the early books influenced by "Wizard of Oz" was "After The Wizard," "Bugle" Spring 1989. The "Pinky" she discusses is not, after all, "Pinkies and the Winkies" from 1913 Eldridge, but "Pinky and the Plumed Knight" by Frederick Chapin, 1909 Saalfield. Also of interest (although Steve Teller has already supplied the information that would apply to your questions) are Steve Teller's two articles on Oz pastiches, "The Other Oz: Apocrypha Beyond the Forty Books," in the same issue and "A Checklist of Published Oz Apocrypha," Autumn 1990. All good articles. Steve commented on Gibson's use of Gnomes in "Zauberlinda." She seems to have been the first of that group of Chicago-area fairy tale writers to use Gnomes; when I was working on my article on the history of Gnomes (for the "Gnome Matters" Dunkiton pamphlet I did) I was surprised to find that there wasn't much in the way of gnomes in stories before Gibson, although there were a bunch of gnomes and Gnome Kings in various 19th century musical plays (for instance, in Wallace's operetta "Lurline"). And there were other, smaller uses of Gnomes in various ways, as in Pope's poem, "The Rape of the Lock," or George Sand's "Le Gnome de Huitres" (not actually a gnome, but a small man). Rich Morrissey: Agreement in thinking Dorothy in "Wizard" admirable. // "Dot and Tot in Merryland" is easy enough to track down in the Books of Wonder reprint, but that version lacks Denslow's artwork (because of the expense of the color separations for something that wouldn't sell as well as "The Wizard," I assume). I was sad to read in Saturday's NY "Times": "Malvern, Pa., Feb 7 (AP) - Daniel Pratt Mannix an animal collector and writer, died on Jan. 19 at his home in Malvern. He was 85." The obituary talks about his books and his interest in animals and carnivals, and concludes, "He is survived by a son, Daniel P. Mannix 5th; a daughter, Julie M. Von Zernick, three grandchildren and two great-grandchildren." His Oz interests included the 1902 stageplay, Oz characters from Philadelphia, RPT and her work, and he published fine articles on Oz topics in the "Bugle" and elsewhere. Ruth Berman ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:15:56 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 References: <01IF9EKW1DG29D94BL@delphi.com> Rich Morressey wrote > Thompson herself cut her Ozzy teeth by > using characters created by L. Frank Baum, and (despite a few criticisms= here > and there) for the most part did anything but "change and corrupt them." > Besides, other writers have used Thompson characters in the past (ranging > from John R. Neill in his three FF books to the McGraw's featuring Kabumpo= in > an important role in FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN); was it some recent event that > caused Maryott to change her mind? Or was it, perhaps, a feeling going= back > to 1946, in which case Jack Snow's sometimes-criticized refusal to use any > Thompson characters may not have been by his own choice? FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN was published with Maryott's knowledge and consent (and royalties). As long as the books were being published by Reilly & Lee, they had the right to determine what appeared in the books. > DOT AND TOT IN MERRYLAND..., in my far-from-exclusive opinion, it made THE SEA FAIRIES read like THE LOST > PRINCESS OF OZ by comparison. > Rich Morrissey > DOT AND TOT (which is available in a re-illustrated edition for BoW) was written for a younger audience than WIZARD. It is more comparable to the Laura Bancroft books. I remember not liking SEA FAIRIES much in my childhood, but liking it better later on. I would enjoy discussion of the Baum Non-Oz fantasies, but I realize they are harder to acquire than the Oz books. Steve T. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:19:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-10-97 You can give some of the prizae money to DCM if I win to pay off anything necessary. I'm quite worried that any alteration as drastic as replacing Peter would bastards and all around deprove my novel. Also, it's not a typical Oz book. Although there are several fantastic setpieces, it's more a story about characters than about inventions. Yes, I am the Scott who offered the filmography in the trading post, but I am trying to keep it as anonymous as possible. I saw _Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyaler Ulkesinde_ last night (not Ulresinde, as the Bugle claims) and it was really interesting. The cinematography was excellent and the visuals are good, except for the character costumes, which are bad kiddie play material. It is, ironically, one of the closest adaptations of the Baum original, although he is uncredited. (But then, some of the credits are a dark blue blur.) Although about eight minutes are missing after Aysecik awakes (the tornado/credits sequence is fully animated, though very= limited) and one only gets a fleeting glimpse of the Witch of the North, whose kiss is important. She also has seven dwarfs who show up at various times to come to her aid, and they dress like MGM Munchkin soldiers, only in red and white instead of green and yellow. The naturalistic settings mixed with odd production design are beautiful to look at and similar to the OFMC films, and capture the naturalistic style of Baum's writing, for all its whimsy. The Wicked Witch of the West is hunchbacked and a mix of traditional with Denslow (she does carry a broom). American Audiences would hate the film because we hear but do not see the bees in that scene. The witch's make-up dissolves when she's hit with water, something we had wanted to do in our eighth grade play (in which I played the Guardian of the Gates, as well as a Munchkin and Winkie), but the director, Linda Smith, was afraid it would damage the curtains or the wood floor of the stage. It is the only film that I know of which features the China Country, and there are cavepeople running around with hammers to represent the hammerheads. It was interesting to see an attempt at Baum's original two journey EC center attempted on film, but it cut enough that it didn't quite work out that way. It's still an interesting film. The Wizard looks across between Mickey's master in _Fantasia_ (1940) and Peter Nook in _The Life & Adventures of Santa Claus_ (1985). The film was directed by Tunc Basaran from a script by Komdi Degirmencioglu, whose daughter, Zeynep Degirmencioglu, plays Aysecik. According to Marc Lewis, her married name is Korkut. She is one of the cutest Dorothys ever. The producer was Ozdemir Birsef. Scott (of the Trading Post filmography) Anyone know what Oz Observer the offer for the video of Ken Kesy's _Twister: A Ritual Reality_ appeared in? ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:35:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 Hello, all! First things first. Earlier today, I finally managed to access Bill Wright's web page, and was very impressed! (Since I can't e-mail through Netscape, I'm really saying this for Bill's sake, as well as for any others who have not yet investigated the page. Here, in his web page, I finally found all the Oz books, rather well identified, and with complete text on many! So here they were!) Thanks, Bill. Re the Lion: Granted, as Ruth Berman mentions, lions are common symbols of heraldry (and therefore as symbols of European aristocracy). But remembering the Lion's original character (as he has become less and less cowardly as the series has progressed), is it not possible that WIZARD was a commentary on England and the "Old World"--saying that Europe was stagnant or something to that effect? So perhaps the story was an allegory after all in some small sense. Eric: Okay, I give in. What's a newsgroup? Aaron: As to Dorothy's wearing Gingemma'a (a.k.a. the WWE's shoes): actually, shoe size and height are not terribly related, as you can see in my size 15-shoe sister (okay, I exaggerate a little. But seriously, shoe size amd height are not necessarily correlated). --Jeremy Steadman ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:52:55 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 I can't believe how angry I am right now! Ruth Berman, of all people, a person whose work I've known and have respected for along time, is now throwing all my words back to me. Yeah, I was a bit rude, and I admitted as such. Wouldn't be the first time one Digester was rude to another one (Hi, Richard!). But I don't get it. Every time I express my opinions, if it doesn't get misinterpreted I get told off, but if I DARE to tell you off I'm STILL wrong??? Dave, unsubscibe me NOW! It's not worth the time, effort, or emotional wrenching anymore. --Eric "And please, don't anybody bother e-mailing me about this" Gjovaag ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:38:34 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Twodays Oz Growls JSTEADMAN - If you look at the pictures in our Book of the Month, you will= have a hard time imagining Dorothy is 10. Melody - >films that show young men etc. How did that paragraph start? = Maybe you could resend the whole paragraph. Ruth - ""enclosure" rather than composing on line" - I wondered how you were doing this. Couldn't you solve the problem by shortening your right margin? Tyler - When I was playing the ancient equivalent of Little League baseball (late 1940's), I used to play catcher, among other things. When you put on= the mask you have to turn your cap backwards. I used to wear it around= backwards just for fun at other times. I'm sure kids have been wearing their caps backward since there have been caps. Regards, Bear (:<) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:56:09 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 Eric: I'd love to see an Oz newsgroup. Chris: Having any book take place in its publication year is probably not a good= idea. The book has to be revealed to the author and then written before it can be published. Besides, if _Dorothy and the Wizard_ occurred in 1908, then Dorothy's first trip to Oz would have occurred after _Wizard_ was written. Also, I believe that the name of the great Indian pacifist is spelled= "Gandhi," not "Ghandi," as you spelled it. Aaron: Near the end of the book, Dorothy informs Glinda that Aunt Em and Uncle= Henry will probably "put on mourning," which they would not be able to afford. = BTW, in _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Em and Henry really do "put on mourning." MOPPeT on the Nome King in _Santa_ is that he is the father of Roquat. = Roquat, then, would be one of the children mentioned in _Santa_. There was never really any reference to all of the Munchkins being short. Unfortunately, the MGM movie made the Munchkins short, and, since then, the word "Munchkin" has often been used as the equivalent of "little person." = This annoys me, and it probably would annoy the Munchkins if they knew of it. Cheeriobed: What's all this about my people being midgets? Realbad: I'm a Munchkin, and I'm over six feet tall. Vaga: So what? I'm a Munchkin, too, and I'm eight feet tall. As for the Silver Shoes, it might have been that the WWE was diminutive (or that she just had small feet), or it may have been that the Shoes would automatically fit anyone's feet. That's enough for today. It's late, and I'm getting tired. High Qui-Questioner: GETTING tired? Me: All right. I've been tired all day. Scarecrow: Too bad you're not stuffed with straw like me. I never get= tired! Me: Yes, I know. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy (Yes, it's an old quote, but I'm running out of good quotes. Maybe people could send me their favorite quotes.) ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:48:56 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Belgrave Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 Jeremy: Check out www.ozcot.com for the first two books online. I don't know of any others. Chris D.: I could never think of Dorothy as "a little brat". I think all children have thier moments, just as most adults do, but Dorothy thinks of her friends and familys feelings often and I personally don't think she behaves as a brat. Nathan: I feel the children Baum was writing for would relate to the characters better if they were the same, or close to the same, size as Dorothy. If you want to really hear, see, or talk to a child, try getting down to thier level. You will have thier undivided attention. There was less of a fear factor with closer to equal heights. I'd like to know if anyone has a listing of the screenplays having anything to do with Oz. I just had the opportunity to view "Whimsical World of Oz", through a gracious effort of a fellow Ozite, and it was wonderful!! It had clips of a few plays and I'd like to know how many plays that were written on the Oz theme and what the titles were if anyone would already have them listed, I'm sure others would like to know more about them too. It's getting harder not to just jump right in and start on our journey through the books but I'll wait till next week to start with my ideas ans questions. Till then...... Barbara -don't forget your valentine- Belgrave ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:56:34 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-11-97 Re: Digest length - I was under the impression that the whole idea of the Digest was to stimulate Ozzy discussion in as many subscribers as possible . . . not just the eight or ten "regulars" who post on a near daily basis.= It's been encouraging, recently, to see comments by former "lurkers" and new members. Eric's comment about employing "self-restraint" is well taken, but, based on his past history, he should, perhaps, heed his own advice? Dick ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:19:49 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 Ruth and Joel: I'm still on the fence about _The Pearl and the Pumpkin_. A second look revealed the book is in worse shape than I remembered. The front cover is pretty beat up and corners knocked so bad that cardboard is exposed. Front hinge is cracked and appears to be repaired with glue. Still, a beautifully illustrated book. .. !? Nathan: Yes, _Dot and Tot_ is available from BoW with new illustrations by Donald Abbott. I don't remember who said it was practically unreadable, but that was certainly my experience. I couldn't get past the first few chapters. I assume this is because the book was written for a younger audience than most of LFB's books. (3-4?) It seems similar to _Little Wizard Stories of Oz_, which I also found painful to read. -- Craig ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:11:00 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dorothy and her age: On the HACC, I have _Wizard_ taking place in 1899 and _Emerald City_ taking place in 1905. IMHO, I have squeezed them as close together as I possibly can. Currently, I am assuming that Dorothy was six at the time of= her first trip to Oz and that her visits slowed her aging down by one year.= It is possible to assume that she was seven and that her visits slowed her= aging down by TWO years, but others (such as David Hulan) have remarked that this would have slwoed down her aging by a great deal and that people would have noticed. YOu will notice that I am assuming Dorothy to be physically eleven by the time she moves to Oz. THis is due to the fact that Baum wrote that Dorothy= was one year older than Trot and that Trot said "me too" when Prince Philador said he has stayed at the age of 10 for "ever so long". All this means, though, is that Trot has also stopped her aging. What if Trot was actually 11? Then Dorothy could be 12 (13 chronologically) and hence she could be seven at the time of _Wizard_. Someone once remarked that a girl growing up on a farm in the late 19th century would be able to take care of herself a little better than someone her own age in this time. David: COmpuServe may be moving ahead with the times, but I notice that Bear's address has not changed. Hmmm.... David again: THe conventional wisdom is that all death and aging stopped cold when Lurline did her thing so long ago. I do not buy this, though, as there is plenty of evidence that aging and death happened afterwards. My MOPPeT is that things happened in a way described by Hearn and in _Oz and the Three Witches_. That is, that the enchantment was worked in order to create the perfect land upon the ascension of Ozma. THe fact that Ozma was kidnapped and transformed thre the plan a little off kilter. I also like Aaron's idea of magical "hoptspots". That way, certain parts of= the country would become enchanted faster than others and even certain parts= of the enchantment would come to fuition before others. Using this, we can= easily explain why some people died and some did not. Also, certain people= may have been more or less susceptible to the enchantment that others, at least before Ozma. Chris: Ozma may have the power to alter appearance and age in modern times, but I= doubt that she could have done so in Baum's early books. Jeremy: I believe that some of the FF may be accessed from Bill Wright's home page,= the Piglet Press. IIRC, the URL is http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/, or something pretty close. Nathan: IIRC, it was only in the first book that so many people were described as small. Either the WWE shrank some of her subjects or perhaps Baum wrote that the people were the same size as Dorothy to appeal to children. More subkingdoms: In the time of the WWW, Gloma stated that "we in the South were free". She= does not say if the southern Winkie country at that time was a collection of free kingdoms or a federation. Chris: Speaking of this, did my hints ring a bell with you? Chris: I hate to burst your bubble, but switching pricing plans on AOL won't help= one bit. What has happened with their monthly flat-rate is that people have= been logging in and simply staying on-line forever. To combat this, they have been timing people out much more strictly. THey are doing this with EVERYBODY, not just the flat-raters. Chris again: March Laumer put _DOT&WIZ_ in 1908, and he tied in some stuff with the great Siberian meteorite in that same year. Others have suggested 1906, with= the obvious tie-in to the Great San Fransisco Earthquake. On the HACC, this= story is set in 1904, due in part to the Great Squeeze I put on the early Baum books. IMHO, 1906 is just too late for this book to occur, unless we assume that Dorothy is much older than we already do. Aaron: Putting _Santa_ in the HI/RCC may be a good idea. As yet, none of Baum's non-Oz stories are in the HACC, although I would like them to be. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:10:58 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz I am putting this in a separate post, since it is a little silly. As I see it, there is only one way to really organize the digest in such a= way that people can skip the parts they are not interested in and save a lot of time, and here it is. 1. Dave (or someone else) will establish a list of Ozzy categories of discussion, and assign each one a unique number. 2. People sending posts to te digest will put the relevant number as the first line in each paragraph. This requires that each paragraph cover only= one topic. 3. Dave can write a utility that will parse each paragraph and then sort them all by category number and finally patch the whole thing into one digest sorted by topic. While this is technically possible, I doubt that it is practical. It requires that everybody use the system, that everybody uses it correctly, and that people do not combine topics in one paragraph. Not very likely. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 02-10 & 11-97 I couldn't get the 2/10 Digest to download the day it came, but the next day it downloaded fine. Don't ask me why. Anyhow, this post is for things not related to WIZARD. 2/10: Jeremy: The Baum Oz books, and most of his other major fantasy books, are available for downloading from Sunny Koh's Web site:= http://www.home.aone.net.au/sk/oz/ Nathan: Yes, Monday was the traditional washday for a long time. It still was when I was a kid, which was a couple of decades after GRAMPA. When I was working I did our laundry on Saturday, usually - it pretty much had to be on the weekend. Now that I'm retired I've settled on Thursday as the best day for our purposes, though sometimes I vary it if there's a reason. Melody: Oh, I agree with you that the "heroes" of ORLANDO FURIOSO aren't what I consider heroic at all. But Ariosto clearly did, rapes and all. If you read about them in THE CASTLE OF IRON, you'll see that de Camp and Pratt didn't think much of them either - Roland and company are characterized as idiotic thugs, even though they're on the "right" side of the war. Missing first line in your second paragraph. Guess it's not an AOL problem after all. >One fellow I met said he came out of the military with violent >feelings, and it took a long time for him to get his conscience and respect >for life back. :-( I'm sure this is true for some people. OTOH, it wasn't for me, nor for most of the people I served with. It was World War I, more than anything else, that put paid to any popular belief that war is Glorious. Baum was a bit ahead of his time in that respect. Rich: True that Gureeda wore pants - in fact, Thompson says that all the Umbrella Islanders wore pants, although Neill draws some of the men in short skirts for some reason. But as you point out, she didn't live in Oz. I don't know how "well-known" you'd consider them, but Albert Campion is called "Bertie" by a few of his closer friends and is the protagonist of a large number of mysteries by Margery Allingham, and there's another mystery series starring Edward VII when he was Prince of Wales - he was always known as "Bertie", and in fact those mysteries all have "Bertie" in the titles. (One is even "Bertie and the Tin Man", though it's not an Oz reference.) Certainly in the '50s girls wore shorts or jeans most of the time for= outdoor activities. Shorts were common even in the '40s, though jeans were less so. I think there's considerably more reason to discuss SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND than MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO or JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB. The only character from MMMO that turns up in an Oz book is the Wise Donkey, and he has a few lines in one chapter of PATCHWORK GIRL. (The Bumpy Man is a character from Mo, but he isn't in the book about Mo.) And the characters from JOHN DOUGH appear only as guests at the birthday party in ROAD, and as= I recall have no lines at all. SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND, on the other hand, include major background information on three important Oz characters -= Trot, Cap'n Bill, and Button-Bright - that doesn't appear in any Oz book (like= Trot and Button-Bright's real names, and Cap'n Bill's last mane), and in addition show character aspects (particularly of Button-Bright) that can affect interpretations in the Oz books. (I agree that SEA FAIRIES is one of Baum's weakest books; of the fantasies I'd rate only DOT AND TOT, MASTER KEY, and ROAD as definitely weaker, with SANTA CLAUS and DOTWIZ about on a par.) But it's up to Dave to decide that, I think. 2/11: Nate: The trouble with a descriptive "subject" line is that for some of us, at least, there isn't anything much more specific than "the last Digest(s) read". I suppose I could break my posts up into several shorter ones, each with a more specific subject. Would people prefer that? Nathan: I agree with you that HUCKLEBERRY FINN, though often marketed to children, isn't really a children's book. Even TOM SAWYER, which is more of a children's book than its sequel, is marginal. You haven't missed much by not having read DOT AND TOT. That one's for Baum completists only. I like the Twinkle and Chubbins stories better. Tyler: As far as Barry's reversed baseball cap is concerned, maybe he was catcher on his Little League team; they've always worn their caps reversed in the field, though not when batting or on base. Chris D.: Going back to the hourly rate isn't going to improve your access to AOL - just make it cost more if you spend much time on it. (Now, if a -lot- of people went back to hourly, it might improve everyone's access...) Glad to hear that this has been a good year for BEOO (at least, I assume that's what you meant). I've received TIME TRAVELING and EMERALD RING the last two days, and will review them shortly. David Hulan ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 10:16:38 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "BORDERLAND OF OZ" BOOKS: Anyone want to state an opinion about our including _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ in our BCF? Personally, I have no problem with it, since they includes four characters that we *think* of as Oz characters: Trot, Cap'n Bill, Button Bright, and Polychrome. IN OZ, JELLICLE CATS AND DOGS WILL *NOT* COME TO DUST!: Is it possible that the no-death-from-severe-injury part of Lurline's enchantment kicked in (at least in Nick's region of Oz) before the no-death-from-natural-causes part (hence the passing of his parents)? Another interesting question: After the Enchantment Initialization Sequence was finally complete, and immortality in Oz was universal, did this render the extant wicked witches (i.e. Blinkie, Singra, etc.) unmeltable ( In which case we'd then KNOW that *MOMBI LIVES*!!! :) )? SANTA, THE HACC, AND "ZURLINE LOVES A MYSTERY"???: Tyler wrote: >Putting _Santa_ in the HI/RCC may be a good idea. As yet, none of Baum's >non-Oz stories are in the HACC, although I would like them to be. I, too, would like to see the non-Oz Baum books on the HACC, although I suppose this is easier said than done because each of these books (_Zixi_, etc.) are isolated, not part of a series, and do not feature visitors from the outside, and so there are no "frames of reference" to determine when they happened (although I guess they would be assumed to occur in the year of publication by default). BTW, I remember someone mentioning that we can't have any Oz books that take place *after* they were written -- Is this official HACC theory? If so, then I suggest everyone take a close look at where the HACC has _Glinda_ currently placed (1920!)... I can imagine how many Baum fans would react to _Santa_ being placed in the "heretical" bin...It seems to me that a reconciliation between it and _Forgotten Forest_ is a better and plausible course. I gather that there is a book published or to-be-published by Buckethead in which it revealed that Ruggedo overthrew his brother for control of Nomeland...Perhaps the Nome King in _Santa_ is this brother... As for Zurline, its seems her draconic behavior in _Forgotten_ can be explained as well ( Watch this space :) )...Maybe Shanower's Zurline is no more the real Zurline than Kate Columbo is *really* Mrs. Columbo! Tonight on the NBC Mystery Movie: "Columbo and the Case of the Missing Wood-Nymph Queen" :) :) :) -- Dave ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Wizard of Oz Discussion Chris D.: >I was shocked and horrified to learn that no >one else has read WWoO [ That's _Wonderful Wizard_ -- not _Wicked Witch_ -- >_of Oz_ -- Dave :) ] and remembered Dorothy to any degree. I don't think the question is whether we _remembered_ Dorothy so much as the impression particular statements by and about Dorothy made on us vs. yourself. I'll admit, though, that it's relatively difficult to go back to WIZARD and read Dorothy's character without its being influenced by what I've learned about her in the dozen or so later books where she has a major role. However, there is _never_ a point in the book where Dorothy does or says anything that I think deserves a spanking. If you do, then I hope you don't have much to do with kindergarteners - or for that matter, kids up through fourth grade or so. >In fact, the one and ONLY time when she seems to think of anyone besides herself is when >her personal dog is in danger from the Lion. What about when the Scarecrow is stranded on the pole in the river, and she appeals to the stork to rescue him? What about when she organizes the Winkies to find the Tin Woodman and Scarecrow after she liquidates the WWW? What about when she doesn't chase the china princess after she's asked to stay away? But yes, I'll agree that Fairuza Balk's character in RtO was considerably more mature than Dorothy in WIZARD. This is reasonable; presumably she's based on Dorothy's character in OZMA, which was certainly more mature than it was in WIZARD. (Although for whatever reason, her diction was a lot worse.) (And I'll also agree that with the exception of OZMA, I like the early Oz books less than most of Baum's later ones.) Dave: We just have to make sure that what we put in the subject line for discussion includes "Oz", right? (That is, "Discussion of WIZARD" wouldn't work with your automated setup.) Jeremy: The question of whether the time between Nick Chopper's mother's death and Dorothy's arrival in Oz was 3 years or 5 years or even 20 years is certainly open to question. That it would be as much as 700 years (which is one theory that's fairly popular, based on information in YELLOW KNIGHT) seems highly unlikely. >Your scathing review of `Irrelevant Episodes' is, I feel, >unwarranted, as they add texture to the Oz series (when not >overdone); Huh? All I said about IEs was " This book seems to have fewer Irrelevant Episodes than most of the series, with the major exception being the Dainty China Country. Mostly this is because things that could be IEs (the various obstacles in getting to the EC, primarily) are used to characterize the travelers - particularly to show that the Scarecrow really does have brains, and the lion courage." This is a "scathing review"? I've nothing against IEs in moderation; there's really only one left in the published version of GLASS CAT, but there were three more that had to be cut out to get it down to publishable length. EUREKA has several, and so does PROF. WOGGLE-BUG. I'll admit that books like DOTWIZ, ROAD, and EC, which are dominated by IEs, don't hold up as well, but a few are no problem. I was only observing, not objecting. Nathan: As I've said before, MOPPeT is that the enchantment on the Tin Woodman's axe was able to make it cut him, but not to kill him or make him bleed badly. Otherwise, as you say, he could not have survived being cut up unless the enchantment of deathlessness had already taken effect in Oz. We know for a fact that it hadn't with animals, and have little reason to believe that it had with humans. Aaron: I agree with you that deathlessness only became common in Oz after Ozma's accession, though some individuals and groups might have achieved it through other means than Lurline's enchantment. However, this view is not by any means universal among Oz scholars. (I've never been able to persuade Robin Hess, for one.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:08:16 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Nathan DeHoff: You ask why non-profit organizations don't get to ignore copyrights. Profit or non-profit doesn't really have anything to do with it, although non-profit status could be be a factor that would influence the copyright holder's decision in deciding on an individual request. Copyright holders are not required to give to just any charity that asks for a hand-out, and so are not required to let non-profits use their material for free. But the question here is artistic, not financial. RPT didn't think that other authors would do well by her characters, and Dorothy Maryott has been carrying out her wishes. There are two choices for the people who think they really truly could write good sequels to RPT's books. (1) Wait a few years until the copyright expires, and although that means missing the one particular market of the Oz Club's contest, there will still be places like Books of Wonder and Buckethead, not to mention self-publishing, and all it takes is a smidge of patience. (2) Write some really good children's books that make some large reputable publisher just oodles of money and win rave reviews from leading critics, and then send the lrp an Oz book equally good and ask the lrp to go negotiate with Dorothy Maryott for permission, and very likely the lrp could convince her this would be a good time to make an exception. Getting rave reviews without big sales might be good enough to convince Dorothy Maryott, but it would probably take both to convince the lrp it was worth trying. (1) would take less time and patience, though, as it doesn't require writing establishing oneself as a major children's book author first. Dave Hardenbrook: Actually, as a once-in-a-while thing, it's fun to see how many people are on the OzD. list. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:34:56 -0500 From: Bob Weisend Subject: Wizard of Oz movie clips Would you happen to know where I can find movie clips (.avi/.mov, etc) from the Wizard of Oz? I tried net searches but to no avail. Thanks -Bob Weisend ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:27:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 I saw _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_ (1994) yesterday. If anyone has read Tales of the Magic Land 1, is it the same in the book that the Lion comes to the cornfield well before the discovery of the Iron Woodman, and that Gingemma is melted before they even get to see Goodwin? Scott Also, whoever it was that said they had seen the Shirley T. _Land_, what does Norman Leavitt's Repairman and Lou Merrill's Court Doctor have to do with the plot? (I found the cast list in TV Guide.) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Yesterday I announced that I did not yet have any copies of As The Clock Strikes Oz, and that I had gone ahead and made a premature trip to the post office so you guys wouldn't have to wait any more... As you may have expected, that did it. They arrived last night. On the issue of Dorothy: Come on, people! I never meant to insult Dorothy in any way. Are you honestly arguing that she seems more mature in Wonderful Wizard than Fairuza's portrayal? I made a simple statement of fact, and it has been blown way out of proportion. And agreed, when Dorothy returns in later books, she is a LOT more mature than that first time. I am led to wonder now, how many years actually passed. Baum was very bad about identifying the year events took place (hence my question about THE earthquake). We know that W.Wizard had to take place before it was written (unless Baum was actually Nostradamus in disguise), so I figure 1899 is safe. The next date we have for certain is not until Queer Visitors (3rd BOOK), which is 1904. She may well have aged a full 4+ years since Wizard! And how much later than 1904 was Ozma? Now, back to my question of yesterday: in order to figure out the passage of these years, was it THE earthquake or not? Zeb acts as if such earthquakes as this are common, everyday things. He doesn't seem to think it's anything out of the ordinary. However, I think it was the train conductor who said it was the worst quake he'd ever known (how often he conducts the train in this area is unknown, though). Rinny's from that area, and has only known two earthquakes (one of which interrupted a major baseball game between San Francisco & Oakland), so maybe Zeb is just a little TOO calm... As to length, I have Oz books varying from very very thin to ridivulously fat and everywhere between. But I think 50-60,000 is a good length to shoot for. Our average of late has been a lot more, but in my early days I used to opt for a lot less. The reason: It seems I have two types of people who buy OZ books from me. Some want lots and lots and lots of books, and don't really care how thick they are as long as they keep appearing steadily. These, I call Collectors. The other kind of client I have tends to want books that he can READ and actually savor. These, I call Readers. I can't cater to both types of buyers. If I do large volumes of the sort that I PERSONALLY prefer, the Collectors are put out. If I put out a lot of thin little pamphlets to please them, the Readers complain. Hence, I am no longer trying to please all the people all the time. The books by Rinny & me are likely to be very large stories for people who want to read. If I get a good shorter book submitted, that's cool, too. But for the MOST part, I cater to Readers and BoW caters to Collectors. Repeat: I said the MOST PART. There is some crossover. I think of Queen Ann as a Reader book, and I have offered my share of Collector books as well. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:27:14 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 Tyler and Bear, I heard a line the other day that might apply: "There are only three kinds of people that wear their caps backwards: baseball catchers, fourteen year old boys, and idiots." Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:02:16 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 Steve: Did either the McGraws or Maryott receive royalties for _Forbidden Fountain_? After all, this book was published by a non-profit organization (IWOC). Jeremy: A newsgroup is basically just something to which people post messages. I read a few newsgroups, and I'd love to see an Oz one. On my post yesterday: Oops! It's not Vaga who is eight feet tall. It's his henchman Skally. Sorry about that, guys. Skally: Just don't get it wrong again, or I'll pick you up and shake you until you wish people could still die in Oz. (I don't think I'll bother pointing out to him that I don't live in Oz.) Tyler: I liked your theories on the enchantment. I consider most of Baum's non-Oz fantasies to be historically accurate. They rarely contradict the Oz books. I do remember that _Magical Monarch of Mo_ stated that there was no night in Mo, but, in _Scarecrow_, night clearly falls during Trot and Cap'n Bill's visit to Mo. There is probably a way to reconcile these differences, however. Also, note that Baum makes it clear that the Mo stories are "not true," while the Oz books are generally presented as true. I'd rather not change the organization of the Digest. It would make responding much less fun, and much more complicated, while making more work for Dave. Dave: I might want to discuss _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_, even though I don't have copies of them myself. Even if nobody dies in Oz, I think that witches could still be melted. Mombi might still live, but in a scattered collection of molecules, not her true form. The enchantment just ended death, not destruction. I would assume that most of the Baum non-Oz fantasies occurred about when they were written, since, when the characters appear in _Road_, they are about the same ages they were in their own books. _Enchanted Island of Yew_ must take place at least one hundred years before it was written, since it ends with the "one hundred years later" chapter. It is possible that some of the Oz books take place after they were written. The authors may have communicated with Oz by some kind of psychic powers, which could have allowed them to see into the future. Additional Thoughts: I'd like to create a collection of favorite Oz quotes, which I might put on my web page. If anybody has any favorite quotes, or copies of old Digests containing MY quotes (I've had to erase most of them), please send them to me (not the old Digests, just the quotes). Also, I've put my own VirOzes on my web page, as well as those written by John White (who put them into Public Domain). If anyone else gives me permission to use their VirOzes, I'll put them there, too. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I can't think of any good quotes." -Me ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:51:42 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sort-of Ozzy trivia: Those of you who watch "Star Trek" may have noticed that the number 47 crops up quite a bit (sector 47, 47% power, 47 survivors, etc.) Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #47: Never trust the guy whose suit is better than your own. Dorothy: Or gingham dress! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:10:14 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: and more Oz Did I already post today? I think so. But I've gotten another digest since then, too. Maybe I am spending too much time Online. I was playing around with Piglet Press Encyclopedia. For some reason, I was unable to access characters past the Green Dragon of Atlantis. I was actually trying to get to Squealina Swyne. Oh, well. The second digest I read today was full of those alien codes. But still readable. Too bad about Eric. I may try to contact him anyway. I hope I wasn't the last straw. I think I made another offhand quote about something... I will try to contact him. Dave: Tyler and I have not always been in complete agreement on the HACC years. My version has Glinda the year it was WRITTEN rather than the year published. Rinny and I are now re-reading the whole series (very slowly, but surely), making out tons of little index cards on every single minute detail about every person, place, thing, and critter in all of them, and the result is becoming a massive undertaking. Anyone who gets out to thrift stores and sees any 3 x 5 cards on sale for a few cents, grab 'em for me! I'm already at the point where I'm cutting out my own, and they usually have junk on the back. Stuff like "Please pay the minimum payment before such-and-such a date"... I also have need of little itty-bitty file boxes for these cards. I buy them at thrift stores. If it's over a buck, it's too much. But I'll pay for them and the postage if you can grab a handful of them and ship them all at one time. It is my usual practice to write books as the events happen, not a year earlier. Not always, but usually, I write them as a newspaper reporter might. Each day, a new breaking story is told as it happens. Of course, unlike a newspaper, you don't get to read the chapter the day it was written. If it's one that I personally wrote, you may have to wait for a few years. I tend to do other peoples' books ahead of my own. Not that there are a lot of those any more... Some exceptions have happened, of course. Rinny, Gil Joel and I teamed up on a series of books that take place prior to Wizard (hard to work with so many unfamiliar characters this way, and no great enchantment, people can die, etc...). Some of our stories also took place back in the twenties, some in the forties... But USUALLY they are all written as they transpire. I assume that Baum had much the same system, but it was actually Thompson that I got the idea from. Yes, it has been a good year so far for BEoO. I can't remember any previous time that I have had 3 books at press at once! This means I've had a lot more orders coming in for the older stuff (still mostly Tin Castle) and, as a result, more $ to sink into other, newer stuff. If it keeps up this way, I may be in trouble. I may suddenly have no more backlog, so I'll become desperate for more stuff to print. But don't worry, I'll not start accepting just anything. WAS would still be a reject. Might become more willing to write shorter books again, though, in spite of my earlier posting of today... Now I have officially made this digest too long. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:38:11 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 Dan Mannix: Dan was also an award-winning naturalist, a professional swallower of swords, lighted neon tubing, and fire (he travelled with a carnie and felt he should earn his way, so he learned a few, um, skills to pay for the time he spent with them researching a book). He was also a gentle giant (over 6' 6, IIRC). If any of you liked "The Fox and the Hound, " then you're a bit familiar with Dan's work. Disney based the film on Dan's book. There really was a Tod and a Copper...on Dan's farm. Disney also used Dan's book, _Drifter_ for a film. He'd been feeling ill for quite some time. Barb Koelle says his funeral left people feeling warm, not depressed. I'm glad. He was a dear man. Filmography: Try Eyles' _The World of Oz_. It's still on remainder tables in some places. Munchkin height: Doesn't Baum say something about their being about Dorothy's height, or the height of a child? Huck Finn: Definitely a multilevel novel. To paraphrase Hemingway, all American novels flow from _Huckleberry Finn_. Definitely not just a juvie. --Robin O. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:13:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Koupal, Nancy" Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi, all. I have just done a quick catch up of about two weeks of back Digests--lots of good reading. Steve Teller: Many thanks for the discussion of Yama Yama Land and Zauberlinda. I hope you will eventually expand your discussion of the latter into a paper. Have you found out much about Gibson herself? Do you know how she came to set the story in South Dakota and the Black Hills? Eric G.: I had to laugh about your experience with the book plates. They were a surprise to me, too, but I see the logic of them--thanks to everyone's explanations and to Craig's asking about them in the first place. David Parker: Thanks for the Miletich information. I look forward to hearing more about it. I also enjoyed your article on Baum and the Populists and will be writing to you soon. Cordially, ntk ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:31:51 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dorothy: Considering that Dorothy was violently ripped away from her home, she acted rather well. Santa: It would be better I guess to resolve the issue of Zurline rather than dump _Santa Claus_ into the HI/RCC. After all, Santa does arrive in EC in _Road_, and he seems to be the same Santa from that story. FOr the most part, we can use date of publication for Baum's non-Oz books. Others, like _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ will need to be adjusted due to the big squeeze in the early Baum books. This should not be too hard. DAve: Yes, the HACC's official theory is that a book cannot take place after it was written, and _Glinda_ currently violates this rule. Chris D. was the originator of this rule. Book-of-the-month-club The subject line of this paragraph sounds like it paves the way for... Ozma: Hello, sir. My name is Ozma and since you're on our preferred customer list, I'm authorized to offer you... :-) Anyway, I would vote "YES" on including _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ in our list of books to be discussed, since they intimately involve several characters that we consider "Ozzy". As for the others, I am neutral. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 Chris D.: I've had the same problem getting kicked off AOL.. usually because I have to download the Digest into a word processor to read it. If it weren't so hard to log on these days, I'd simply log-off and log back on when I'm ready to post my responses. Instead I try to stay online while I read the Digest. (I know, I know, it's people like me who cause the busy signals, but the solution is for AOL to increase their capacity. After all, the menu has changed to all you can eat.) Here's what I do to stay online: I go to keyword "billing" and click on one of the topics. Then I switch back to my word processor. Every few minutes I switch back to AOL and choose a new billing topic. That way the system is fooled into seeing activity. Dave: As long as you asked, my vote is an emphatic yes for reading _Sky Island_ and _The Sea Fairies_ along with the FF. I think David's reasoning on this matter is absolutely right. Anyone: Have you heard the audiotape(s) of Oz stories narrated by Ray Bolger? I saw them today at Borders. You get abridged versions of _Wizard_, _Land_, "Queen Zixi_ and _Little Wizard Stories_. Any good? What I'd really like to find is unabridged versions. Book of the Moment: I may be able to start on time after all. I finished _Hidden Valley_ last night and have started _Merry Go Round_. That's all for tonight. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Since this keeps being an issue, say I write a book and want to use "Kabumpo." How much does that cost me for royalties to DCM who is protecting RPT's wonderful characters from molestation by us lesser lights? Is it a flat fee, percentage, or what? Does anyone know? It may be upsetting to some to see Eric de-subscribing. You have to understand that Eric is extremely sensitive on the receiving end and rather insensitive on the transmitting end. He seems to be in a constant search for something at which to take offence. He is, however, extremely knowledgeable about the subject of Oz. We will just have to hope that after sulking awhile he returns, willing to participate in the give and take that makes the Digest interesting. In a way we are like a family. It is unavoidable that people are going to do or say things that hurt or irritate others. However, almost all of us understand this and are able to work through or around it. David/Tyler - At one time Compuserve said they were going to let us have names instead of "convict numbers." Maybe that has come to pass. Tyler??? Gili must be in finals or something????? HISTORICAL NOTE: In the 40's jeans were made of softer material and were called "peddle pushers" IIRC. Ladies??? David - Count me among those opposed to "contribution dismemberment." :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:42:25 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 & 2-12-97 Re: Chris' comment "I was going to write something Ozzy again, but have forgotten what it was. While reading the last Digest, AOL signed me off." That's nothing. When I had AOL all I kept getting was GENERAL PROTECTION FAULT plastered on my screen, and the computer locked up. After I erased AOL from the hard drive the problem went away. Re: Whether to cover "Trot" books in BCF discussion: It's fine with me. I'm easy. BCF discussion: Hopefully it's not too early, but I think it's interesting to note that _Wizard_ is one of Baum's few children's books that has a message or moral (even though he states in the introduction that it does not). Re: Dan Mannix I was saddened too, to hear of the death of Daniel Mannix. If there is anyone out there who hasn't read his American Heritage (12-64) article, "Father of the Wizard of Oz" or his excellent series on the 1902 _Wizard_ stage play which appeared in the Bugle in the late 60's (and, in a way, continued on for years and years), you'd be well served to find copies. Among his many, many Bugle articles, were several touching tributes to Ruth Plumly Thompson, who I understand he lived near and knew well. And I'm sure everyone knows this, but he was also author of _The Fox and the Hound_, the book on which the Disney movie was based. In addition, I remember buying books from him through the Trading Post almost 25 years ago... Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:10:33 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission My personal preference is to include _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ in the Digest discussion list and to have them appear with the other books in order, by date of publication. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:06:12 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-05-97 On a few odd points. A) "Wierd Al" Yankovik (sp?) is the P.D.Q. Bach of rock-and-roll. B) The author who "killed off" Harold Shea was L. Ron Hubbard, who later gave up writing (acknowledged) fiction, and, by way of his heterodox psychological theory of "dianetics" eventually created the full-blown cult of Scientology, which, as nearly as I can understand it, amounts to the Gnosticism of Valentinian et al. with the serial numbers filed off. C) My own take on the plot mangling of "Return to Oz" has always been that it was a well-intentioned attempt to somehow get past "Land of Oz" without bringing up the dangerous subjects of feminism and sex changes, while still getting Oz into the proper status quo for doing more or less true-to-Baum sequels. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:58:47 -0500 (EST) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 re: Other Baum books I, too, would enjoy discussing non-Oz Baum books, especially "The Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island", now that I read the Digest regularly. I have, in my possession, "The Sea Fairies", "Sky Island", "Queen Zixi of Ix", "The Magical Monarch of Mo", "Aunt Jane's Nieces in Millville", "Aunt Jane's Nieces On the Ranch", "Aunt Jane's Nieces in Society", "American Fairy Tales", and "Animal Fairy Tales". Also, does anyone know anything about the "Showboat Wizard of Oz Theater"? A friend bought it for me. It's an envelope with all the 'parts' pictured on it. Inside, I have all three Act 2 cardboard "backgrounds" (front, center, back) and 2 of the Act 1 backgrounds (front, center). I still need the Act 1 back background, the characters, and any instructions or script. Sarah ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:42:38 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 The Dread Hexadecimal Curse is back! At least for yesterday's Digest. Steve: Baum's non-Oz fantasies aren't all that difficult to get - easier than some of the FF, certainly. I know this is true of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND, which can be had at any Borders - or if you're boycotting Borders, ordered from BoW directly (although you then have to pay a fairly high S&H on top of the cost of the books). This is also true of YEW and DOT AND TOT. I know Dover has published MO, ZIXI, and MASTER KEY, and I think they're still in print. I'm not sure about current availability of JOHN DOUGH or SANTA CLAUS. Anyhow, I don't think we should take up any of the non-Oz books except the two Trot books, at least until we've discussed all of the FF. Scott H.: What language is _Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyaler Ulkesinde_? Turkish, maybe? I ask because I can usually recognize most languages by their look, but that one is totally unfamiliar. Not, I'm virtually certain, Indo-European. Jeremy: I doubt seriously that Baum intended the Cowardly Lion to symbolize England - or, in fact, anything other than an amusing twist on stereotypes. There's a loose correlation between shoe size and height, but it's pretty loose. (You don't find 7-foot basketball players wearing size 5, and you don't find 5-foot ladies wearing size 16, but you can find 6-footers with size 7 shoes and 5-5 people with size 10.) Eric: I can't believe how angry you were, either, but _c'est la vie_. You'll be missed. Bear: I'm sure kids have been wearing baseball caps backward since there've been caps, too, but it only became a fad in the late '80s or early '90s. Nathan: I agree with you that the Gnome King of SANTA CLAUS is not Roquat. Maybe his father, maybe a brother, maybe someone else. For one thing, Roquat is the Nome King, and the one in SC is the Gnome King. Maybe the Gnomes and Nomes are two different tribes of immortals. Craig: DOT AND TOT is definitely more similar in tone to LITTLE WIZARD STORIES than to Baum's other Oz books, but imho is even worse. Tyler: I don't think it's that hard to squeeze the time between WIZARD and EMERALD CITY to less than six years. My own timeline is WIZARD, summer of 1899; LAND, sometime in 1900; OZMA, autumn of 1901; DOTWIZ, spring of 1902; ROAD, summer of 1902; EMERALD CITY, sometime, probably early autumn, in 1903. I know of nothing in the canon that would make these dates implausible (though they might create some difficulty with some of the non-FF books), and there are several things in their favor. This allows Dorothy to be seven in WIZARD without any age-compression effect at all. It's certainly possible that Trot's "me too" in GIANT HORSE simply meant she'd stopped her aging and not that she'd stopped it at 10, as Philador had. But since Betsy is a year older than Dorothy, if Trot is 11, Dorothy would be 12 and Betsy 13. She doesn't look it in the illustrations, nor act it in any of the books where she appears, so that seems implausible. Based on their actions, it's likelier that Trot (who's often referred to as "Tiny Trot") is younger than 10 than older. >IIRC, it was only in the first book that so many people were described as small. There was the Munchkin that Zeb wrestled and boxed with in DOTWIZ. He's described as hardly coming to Zeb's shoulder. Of course, we don't know how tall Zeb is, or even how old; he seems to be quite strong and capable, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's 15 or 16 and as tall as a normal grown man. I agree that your idea about how to make it easier to skim the Digest is about the only one that would work. And that it would be silly. Me: That was a typo, there, "Cap'n Bill's last mane". I meant "Cap'n Bill's _lost_ mane," referring to his baldness, of course. :-) Dave: I've already voted in favor of including the Trot books in our discussion, either right after EC or right before SCARECROW. Immortality in Oz has never been universal; it's repeatedly stated that it is possible (though generally difficult) to destroy an Ozite. We know, for instance, that Mooj destroyed Ree Alla Bad's father after Ozma's accession. (Glinda must have missed seeing that one in the GBR, I guess.) Some of the Baum non-Oz books can be dated fairly closely, though not all of them. All we know about DOT AND TOT is that it happened before ROAD (and after there was rail service in the Hudson Valley), and SANTA CLAUS covers such a large time span that dating it is sort of meaningless, though most of it must have happened in medieval times. We know, though, that ZIXI and JOHN DOUGH couldn't have happened long before ROAD; there's no indication that aging is retarded in Hiland and Loland, and it definitely isn't in Noland, so the fact that Chick and King Bud are both still children in ROAD pretty well sets their dates no more than 3-4 years before ROAD. MMMO is clearly set before EC (at least, those parts of it that include the Wise Donkey), but since the people of Mo are immortal there's no _terminus a quo_. SKY ISLAND seems pretty easy to date, based on Button-Bright's personality in it and ROAD - I would assume around four years between those two books, give or take a year. SEA FAIRIES is probably not set long before SKY ISLAND, since Trot doesn't seem to have aged much between the two books, though she has a little - probably a year, possibly two. (And SCARECROW isn't more than a year after SKY ISLAND, which requires compressing all the books up through it into a much shorter span than the difference in publication dates.) YEW is a special case, with no ties to either Oz or our world, and therefore shouldn't be in the HACC or HI/RCC either one. I think it's reasonable for HACC theory to assume that no Oz book takes place after it's written. (This of course means that Lurline's Machine isn't going to get on the HACC, but I doubt that will bother the Adelmans.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:40:45 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-97 > > I saw _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_ (1994) yesterday. If anyone has > read Tales of the Magic Land 1, is it the same in the book that the Lion > comes to the cornfield well before the discovery of the Iron Woodman, and > that Gingemma is melted before they even get to see Goodwin? > In both cases Volkov's book follows the order of Baum's book. Dorothy meets the Lion after the Scarecrow and the Iron Woodman. They go to the great Goodwin before they "visit" Bastinda. The 1994 film is charming but it doesn't follow the book. In the book the Winged Monkeys are not enchanted people. BTW: Gingemma and Bastinda are played by the same person in that film. > > From: OzBucket@aol.com > On the issue of Dorothy: Come on, people! I never meant to insult Dorothy in > any way. Are you honestly arguing that she seems more mature in Wonderful > Wizard than Fairuza's portrayal? No one has argued that. It seems I have two types of people who buy OZ > books from me. Some want lots and lots and lots of books, and don't really > care how thick they are as long as they keep appearing steadily. These, I > call Collectors. The other kind of client I have tends to want books that he > can READ and actually savor. These, I call Readers. There is some crossover. I think of > Queen Ann as a Reader book, and I have offered my share of Collector books as well. So is GLASS CAT, I maintain. Nathan De Hoff wrote: > Steve: > Did either the McGraws or Maryott receive royalties for _Forbidden Fountain_? > After all, this book was published by a non-profit organization (IWOC). > They both would have been paid; I am not privy to the contracts. > > I would assume that most of the Baum non-Oz fantasies occurred about when they > were written, since, when the characters appear in _Road_, they are about the > same ages they were in their own books. _Enchanted Island of Yew_ must take > place at least one hundred years before it was written, since it ends with the > "one hundred years later" chapter. > There is a problem with ZIXI since the ending deals with events after the end of the story. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: and more Oz > > From: "Koupal, Nancy" > > Steve Teller: Many thanks for the discussion of Yama Yama Land and > Zauberlinda. I hope you will eventually expand your discussion of the > latter into a paper. Have you found out much about Gibson herself? Do you > know how she came to set the story in South Dakota and the Black Hills? > Actually I know nothing about Eva Katherine Gibson. I look forward to seeing you again in Aberdeen in August. > As long as you asked, my vote is an emphatic yes for reading _Sky Island_ and > _The Sea Fairies_ along with the FF. I think David's reasoning on this > matter is absolutely right. > I will add my vote for including these two books. > > Have you heard the audiotape(s) of Oz stories narrated by Ray Bolger? I saw > them today at Borders. You get abridged versions of _Wizard_, _Land_, "Queen > Zixi_ and _Little Wizard Stories_. Any good? They are good, but highly abridged. ZIXI, for example only includes the first part of the book, and does not include the Rolly Rogues. The "Little Wizard Stories" are actually several episodes from the "Queen Visiters from the Land of Oz" tales. > -- Craig > > ====================================================================== > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:26:40 -0500 (EST) > From: Richard Bauman > > Since this keeps being an issue, say I write a book and want to use "Kabumpo." > How much does that cost me for royalties to DCM who is protecting RPT's > wonderful characters from molestation by us lesser lights? Is it a flat fee, > percentage, or what? Does anyone know? > I believe that you must first get permission and then arrange the royalty payment, usually a flat fee. BTW: The Baum Trust also gets a cut out of IWOC publications, even of non-Baum items. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:04:50 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 David: Any hint about what the IEs in _Glass Cat_ were? Chris: I consider myself more of a reader than a collector. I have a fairly large collection of Oz books, but I get them for the stories. On when _Glinda_ was written: IIRC, it was soon after _Magic_ was written. Baum was in failing health at the time, and wanted to have enough books written to last a few more years. Tyler: What's so special about the number 47? I remember that it was the 47th person through the gate of Nole who would become King of Noland. Does this have anything to do with why you mentioned the number? Just today, I started on a story that mentions Zurline's impostor. I'm not sure how far I'll get on it, since I often start stories and do not get too far along on them. On the HACC: I recently read _Wooglet in Oz_. On the HACC, it is stated that this book took place in 1918. The book, however, contained two characters (Yamamoto and Yancy) who fought in World War II. Craig: I have the Ray Bolger recordings that you mentioned. I received them when I won the quiz at the Munchkin Convention. They are pretty good. An interesting point is that Ray does not use the same voice he did in the MGM movie when he reads the Scarecrow's parts, but his Cowardly Lion sounds quite similar to Bert Lahr. The stories are quite abridged. Professor Wogglebug does not even appear in Ray's reading of _Land_, and his reading of _Zixi_ ends before the invasion of the Roly-Rogues. Bear: Kabumpo appeared in _Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz_. I do not know if the author of this work had to pay DCM for this. On Copyrights: In Fred Otto's _Lost Emeralds_, Opodock, who is definitely a copyrighted character, had a part. Was DCM paid for this use? Scott: Actually, all of Baum's fantasies contain scattered morality. It is rare that a story will have a single, clear moral, however. Robin: Baum does state that the Munchkins who first approached Dorothy (as well as the GWN, IIRC) were about the same height as Dorothy. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html "It is not a weird name! No weirder than Prent, anyway. Your name sounds like it was made up by some loony college student." -Turvar, a Pumperdinkian spy in my "The Uplift of Iblis," which is not finished ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:50:53 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 Jeremy: At one time I hoped for an Oz newsgroup. I used to lurk on the rec.arts.children's.books newsgroup and was amazed at the lack of Oz talk. I even tried posting a few Oz messages, which generated some but not much discussion. Fortunately, one of the people who took notice was Gordon Birrell. He sent me e-mail with instructions for subscribing to the Ozzy Digest, and the rest is history. In my experience, the Digest is way better than any newsgroup. I feel a sense of community here. I would never want to discourage an Oz newsgroup, but I no longer feel a need for one. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:57:08 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Yeah, I did post twice yesterday. As for the question of BCF including Sky Island and Sea Fairies, it's okay with me. I have them both. I'd rather not get into stuff like Dot & Tot (I do have a copy, but it is an old, un-politically correctified one that falls apart easy). Aunt Jane's has only a passing reference to Glinda, so I say skip those, too. Nothing that is completely separate but equal to Oz. I think YES on Third Book or Little Wizard Stories (we gotta re-read them anyway), but anything that is not actually Oz-related would be almost like reading Rachel Cosgrove (Payes) The Dark Towers of Trelochen. Still, I might be ready for that when we get through all of the Oz books (but I'd rather get through the entire HACC before we start doing these Gothic romance books. Please!). Bill is trying to help me launch my own web page, though I begin to wonder if this Mac IIci can actually make it happen. It may have to be a choice between that or continuing to type whole books into it (though I do have an older comp uter that still works for typing books...). I'll stop here. I don't want to make it something I have to download in the morning. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:36:37 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 David H: I'm sure the kindergarteners Chris D. taught (up to this year?) will vouch for his personal character. (I think he quit the job when he married this past year or so.) Re Dorothy's age (the character's, I mean): I've just thought of an incredible new idea--one that I do not have the time to verify, stuck at college, separated from my Oz books at home. The idea is this: what if Dorothy aged "properly" between her first and second visits, then after meeting Ozma on her second, her age slowed from that point on (culminating, of course, in her arrival in Oz in EMERALD CITY) ? That way, we can both satisfy those who believe her to be more mature in the subsequent books and those who believe aging to be slowed for her--a Great Compromise of sorts. And it sounds reasonable too, to me at least. Time for the experts to name all the reasons why this idea is impossible . . . Re virOzes: Anyone can have mine, as far as I'm concerned (interpret that how you want to). Seriously, I put all of mine in Public Domain except the one that Tyler or Nathan or somebody had already cited. (I think it was the Fountain of Oblivion Virus, but I could be wrong; I've forgotten now.) May the Digest Never End, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:03:59 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 Bear: Pedal pushers were slacks that stopped about mid-calf. They got their name because there wasn't a cuff or material flapping around the ankle that could get caught in the pedals or spokes of a bike. They fit rather snugly about the leg. They were made of many fabrics other than denim. They lasted well into the '50s and I remember them well. Sarah: Your Showboat Wizard is a nifty collectible. Check Bill and Jay's book about Oz collectibles. Or I guess you could e-mail Bill Stillman. His address is in the _Bugle_. He may be able to help you find the part you're missing. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:14:00 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: The kid...., and death in Oz. Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: Chris D. opines: > Frankly, while reading WW this last time, I found > myself wanting to take that little snot over my knee and beat her to a bloody > pulp. (by the way, I am starting up a babysitting service...). Sounds good! Sign me up! Where can I send my kid? Speaking of which, he is becoming more redeemed in my (bespectacled since age 4) eyes, at least in regards to Oz. Two things have happened. The first, his entry to a RCoO contest (how someone can get to Oz), a cute little story, with a rambling non-sequitarious (is that a word?) prologue, which I hope the judges will not hold against him. He's only 4.5. Second, his attention has finally been riveted by an Oz book outside of _WIZARD_. We're reading LP. The first 8 chapters we read in one shot, on a Sunday, the rest of the book we've been reading one chapter at a time, in the morning if we have time, and at night. We have finished through chapter 13, and he has not lost interest yet! YAY!!! (The fact that this book seems to be a little more dialog- than description-oriented may be helping in this regard.) I know this is not the BCF (is that the right TLA?), but I have a coupla questions/comments ....First, in this, the Del Rey edition, there is some obviously missing line(s) in Chapter nine. Can someone supply the missing text (indicated by the asterisk in the following): "And that reminds me that I ought to entertain you, as strangers and my guests, by taking you for a ride around our splendid city of Thi." * Coco-Lorum. "Every time I give an order it is in music [etc.] On re: the discussion of death in Oz, when? We come to the following quote in LP: The ferryman tells Cayke that he "left [a fish] lying on the bank to gasp for lack of water _until it died_ [emphasis added]", and that the Tin Woodman, Emperor of the Windkies took away his ability to understand the animals of Oz (how TW accomplished this is not noted. Glinda?). So, it appears that animals could still die (at least by suffocation) even AFTER the Woodman ascended the throne. More of my insufferable gems of wisdom as I rememember to catch up on more digests. (I read them all before replying to old ones, to make sure my points are not duplicated, and I am far behind in replying to e-mail.) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:13:28 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-08-97 Bear: Here is a (I hope) uncut rerun of last post. >To be fair, I dislike seeing men brutalized, also. I *really* dislike war films that show young men being systematically stripped of their humanity and turned into killing machines by brutal training instructors. Poor L. Frank Baum went through that, and it almost killed him. As it was, he came out of military school with more weakened and damaged heart than he went in with. One fellow I met said he came out of the military with violent feelings, and it took a long time for him to get his conscience and respect for life back. :-( < David Hulan: You say being in the army did not bother you as it did the fellow above. How much armed combat did you see? My father & uncle did not see any, and they seem to have come out of it as well as you did. I said the above to Bear because I didn't want to give the impression that I only dislike seeing women brutalized. However, your reply makes me feel like protecting guys from engaging in war is a bit like "protecting" women from shopping malls.... :-) :-) However, I don't like seeing guys brutalizing and being brutalized even if some claim they don't mind it. Both sexes have better things to do--like read Oz books, draw, write, knit, crochet, build furniture, carve, make soap, make toys, sew, write Oz books, stain glass, etc. etc., etc. :-) . Chris: Dorothy compares rather well with my daughter of similar age--who can get "the gimmee's" really bad! (Down girl! Down! Down!) Dorothy seems so non-greedy, Baum states in "Emerald City" that she never brought home any jewels (or apparently anything else) from Oz with her. Either that, or any fairyland stuff she picked up did not survive the trip to Kansas. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:13:46 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-12-97 David Hulan: If you read about them in THE CASTLE OF IRON, you'll see that de Camp and Pratt didn't think much of them either - Roland and company are characterized as idiotic thugs, even though they're on the "right" side of the war.< Hopefully he still thinks of such "heroes" as idiotic thugs. If he still disapproves of such "heroes," his awful quote should have been phrased accordingly. Either that, or his editor should not have messed with it. (There was a Digester who said the Bugle editors changed a paragraph of their article to say the opposite of what they meant.) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:12:20 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Chris: I don't think that anyone ever said that the Dorothy in _Wizard_ showed a great deal of maturity, especially more so than Fairuza. THe consensus seems to be that Dorothy acted reasonably well considering her age and situation, and certainly was not bratty. Chris again: Glad to hear that _Clock_ is here. How much does it cost? ALso, besides _Tin Castle_, what is the 3rd book that you have available and how much does it cost? As soon as you tell me, I'll send off a check. On the HACC, _Ozma_ is currently listed at 1903. The problem is that Dorothy just does not age all that much between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_, and her cumulative visits to Oz cannot account for all that much non-aging. The first several FF need to be smashed rather close together to make sense. One can assume that her first journey was a profound experience that matured her beyond her years. Nathan: I believe Baum himself (or one of his characters) said that while people could no longer die in Oz, they can still be destroyed. Chris and Dave: As has been noted, the chronological placement of_Glinda_ was a technical error that has not been fixed yet. Chris, you and I are in agreement that books cannot take place after they were written. At the time I created the HACC, I did not know that _Glinda_ had been writen in 1919. As soon as I can (maybe during this three-day weekend) I wil fix it, and add in the new stuff to the review page. Bear: My change-of-name on CompuServe simply happened one day. I did not ask for it, and I was not informed. For certain reasons, I dare not pry too much. Note that the old serial number still works, however. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - I'll bite said the Bear - What's a "lrp?" Bob - Enjoyed your quote. I'll remember that when I wear my politically incorrect Stanford cap (It has the Stanford Indian on it). Nathan >A newsgroup is basically just something to which people post messages. Ahem - That sort of sounds like our Digest. So why do we need a "newsgroup?" And also, if we reduce you to a "scattered collection of molecules" I'll bet you feel pretty dead as well as destroyed. Oh, your quotes are on the way. Another vote for including "Sea Fairies" and "Sky Island." Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:40:29 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-13-97 Ruth: It's too late to use either of your alternatives to justify an entry in the Centennial Contest that uses copyrighted RPT characters (as you more or less say). Much better not to use them. I'm afraid that Scott Hutchins is going to have a problem for the contest - though if he can wait until 2003 or 2004 or so, he might have a chance of getting his book published, if it's as good as he thinks it is. Scott H.: Volkov didn't introduce the Lion before the Iron Woodman. And Gingemma isn't melted at all; a house falls on her. It's Bastinda who's melted. Chris D.: You didn't mean to insult Dorothy in any way? I hope, then, that you never decide to insult me in any way; calling someone "a selfish little brat," or saying "I think re-reading pretty much any page will have you wanting to give this brat a spanking," is much more of an insult than I'd find acceptable. It's not your simple statement of fact that Fairuza's portrayal in RtO is more mature than Dorothy's in WIZARD - which I agree with - that ruffled a lot of feathers. I don't personally think that QUEER VISITORS should be included in the HACC (and the reasons have been expounded often enough by enough people that I don't want to repeat them here). So the 1904 date for that book doesn't apply. Zeb didn't think that earthquakes as big as the one that plunged him down to the Mangaboo kingdom were routine. But he said he'd slept through the earlier quakes that had delayed Dorothy's train. Being married to a lady who slept through just about every sleeping-time quake in Southern California from her birth in 1953 until we left last year (including a bunch that bounced me out of bed), I can imagine that he'd only be impressed by something major. (Robin Hess sets WIZARD in 1893 because the only quake he can find that fits the description of the one in DOTWIZ took place in 1897 or so. I think that's too early for WIZARD, and that DOTWIZ probably doesn't reflect a real quake that happened in our California, but one that happened after there was a twist in the space-time continuum that shifted Dorothy and companions (and the Wizard) into the Oz universe - because earthquakes in our universe don't open deep, wide cracks in the ground.) Maybe it's the books that haven't come to me yet. So far, the BEOO books I've gotten, with the exception of CORY and DISENCHANTED PRINCESS, haven't been any longer than the ECP books. I'm still waiting for about ten more that I've ordered. But QUEEN ANN is considerably shorter than GLASS CAT or GIANT GARDEN, to mention a couple of ECP books. If you're coming to Ozmopolitan next year I have a couple of very nice little 3x5 card containers that I'd be happy to give you. (If all goes really well financially with us, I might make Winkies as well.) I do all my database stuff on my computer these days. It seems unlikely that you're going to run out of backlog to publish. Not with all the pending books that I've heard about. But if you do, I may well have a candidate or so... (If you haven't gotten too annoyed at me for my reviews of books you've published already.) Incidentally, that reminds me that I should say that my fairly recent comment that TOTO IN OZ was one of only a couple of Oz books that I'd been unable to finish was strongly influenced by its minuscule type. It might be a two- or even three-star book if it had been published in 10-11-12 point type, but if it isn't 8-point it's in a font where a larger size looks like 8-point. And the story wasn't so fascinating that I could struggle through tiny type. It was also the first non-FF Oz book I ever tried to read. One of these days I really need to give it another try. Nathan: It's interesting to consider what it means to "live", when one is a mass of disassociated molecules like a melted Mombi, or Mooj as a drop of water in the Nonestic. I'll admit that I have a hard time deciding which molecule gets the ego... (And then do the id and superego go with different molecules? Fascinating...) I only have a few favorite Oz quotes, and most of them are topical and fairly meaningless if you don't know the context. For instance, my wife's and my wedding rings (which, because they turned out to irritate our fingers, we don't wear) are inscribed with "Forever and even longer", written in the Cirth runes from Tolkien. (And we used the line in our ceremony, too.) And I frequently say, "How nice. They will suffice. You are the king." Usually under my breath. What's the URL for your web page? If you've mentioned it before, I missed it. Robin: I remember a novel by Mannix set in ancient Rome that a friend of mine gave me and that I thought was excellent. It was close to 30 years ago, though, and I don't remember much more than that. Craig: I won the Bolger tapes of those Oz books as my prize for Best Fiction at Winkies a couple of years ago. I listened to them on my way home from Asilomar and my reaction was that the first three, while seriously abridged, were good abridgements of the books in question, and Bolger himself read them charmingly. The "Little Wizard Stories" are really from "Queer Visitors", and are pretty bad, as were the originals (imho). On the whole, unless they're expensive, I'd recommend the set. (Up to about $15 for any Oz fan; up to $25 for a Collector.) As for unabridged versions, Piglet Press has an unabridged version of WIZARD (which, based on their EMERALD CITY, is excellent). I don't think such a thing exists for the others. Bear: It's not a matter of money for Dorothy C. Maryott, it's the treatment of her aunt's characters by others. There's no specific fee that would compensate. Which is, imho, as it should be. Not but what I'd love to be able to use some of RPT 's characters in some of my books and stories, and I probably won't live long enough to use all of them (well, I hope I'll -live- long enough, but will I still be writing in 2009, when I'm 75?). But I'm not sure that I'd really like people using Barry and Becky Klein without my approval for the next 50 years, either. Those are "pedal pushers", not "peddle pushers". I remember my mother wearing them. And they were more like what a slightly later generation called "clamdiggers" than jeans. (Ladies change the names of their attire much faster than men. I found this out in particular with my first wife...) John K.: I mentioned some time ago that the one who "killed off" Harold Shea was Hubbard, though I left out his later self-aggrandizement. (I could tell a lot more stories about Hubbard, even before he came up with "Dianetics". He was really quite a good SF/fantasy writer, but was a serious money-grubber as well.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:07:20 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Ozzy Digest Nathan DeHoff writes: > MOPPeT on the Nome King in _Santa_ is that he is the father of Roquat. Roquat, > then, would be one of the children mentioned in _Santa_. That sounds good to me. The father was a great friend of the immortals, so one of them may have given him the Magic Belt. Then Roquat stole the belt and turned his father, siblings, and anyone else who objected into ornaments. Roquat ended up with a *lot* of ornaments. I suspect that only the true immortals have the power to make an artifact as powerful as the Belt. The Nomes are not true immortals, as they can be sliced up, etc. Tyler Jones writes: > It is possible to assume that she was seven and that her visits slowed her > aging down by TWO years, but others (such as David Hulan) have remarked > that this would have slwoed down her aging by a great deal and that > people would have noticed. Well, suppose Dorothy didn't age at all after her first visit in WIZARD? Would there be any inconsistency between this and any of the books? People would notice, of course, but they may have refrained from telling Dorothy that she was a little runt. People in Oz might not notice, since they had stopped aging too. Baum himself would have noticed, but there is no reason why he would explicitly mention this in his book. Actually, he *did* say things like Dorothy "seemed just the same sweet little girl she had been when first she came to this delightful fairyland". That might be interpreted as meaning Dorothy hadn't aged since WIZARD. > I also like Aaron's idea of magical "hoptspots". ... Also, certain people > may have been more or less susceptible to the enchantment that others, > at least before Ozma. The enchantment may have been like a computer program -- taking a long time to get all the parts running, and then another long time to get the bugs out. Also, being a fairy enchantment it may have helped good people before it did anything for bad people. I recall Baum saying somewhere that even though good people never died, bad people could still be put to death. > Ozma may have the power to alter appearance and age in modern times, but I > doubt that she could have done so in Baum's early books. Baum said people didn't age at all, but Thompson said people could age if they wanted to. I think it would be very un-ozzy if this were irreversible, so maybe people can also become younger if they want. Dorothy may stick with 11, but Ozma may shift between 9 and 15 for variety. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > As for Zurline, its seems her draconic behavior in _Forgotten_ can be > explained as well ( Watch this space :) )...Maybe Shanower's Zurline > is no more the real Zurline than Kate Columbo is *really* Mrs. Columbo! One problem with the impostor-Zurline theory is that Shanower has Zurline revoking Nelanthe's immortality. In Baum's universe not even the real Zurline can do that. Only the Supreme Master has the power to grant/revoke true immortality status. Also, no impostor could deceive the Great Ak, who drops in to visit Zurline every couple of decades. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 15, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:30:43 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: You suggest that perhaps a lion could be a symbol of European aristocracy. Could be, maybe, but there's no reason to think that the Cowardly Lion is. Allegorical interpretations don't make any sense unless there is some reason to think an allegory was actually intended. By contrast, I looked up the article David Parker mentioned, Lynette Carpenter's "There's No Place Like Home: The Wizard of Oz and American Isolationism" ("Film & History" 15, 1985), and it's a sensible -- and convincing, I think -- discussion of the movie as being influenced by 30's isolationism. But influence is not the same as allegory, and trying to hunt down individual equivalences (such as red slippers = Communism, or Lion=France, or Lion=European-aristocracy) is pointless unless there is some convincing reason to think that an allegory was actually intended. David Hulan: Liked your discussion of Dorothy in "Wizard" as an admirable (and non-bratty) individual. Nathan DeHoff: You ask if the McGraws and Maryott received royalties on "Forbidden Fountain," published as it was by the non-profit IWOCC. Yes. Non-profit status doesn't (necessarily) mean penniless. Paying royalties is an expense, like buying paper and ink. A non-profit that can't cover its expenses goes out of business in the same way as a for-profit business. (Actually, non- profits may make profits, and very large profits. The difference is that the people running it don't get to take the profits home and spend them at will, but have to plow them back into whatever worthy activity got the outfit its non-profit status in the first place.) Scott Hutchins: You ask if you could get permission to use RPT's characters by paying for the right (and Bear asks how much would such permission cost). You can't buy something that the owner is not willing to sell. The owner is not willing to sell. (Bear: what such fees cost in cases where the owner is willing to sell varies a great deal, depending on the type of publication, the perceived value of the material, etc. The questions of how much the fees are, whether they are paid in a lump sum or as royalties, etc., are negotiated while permission is being sought.) Craig Noble: I haven't heard the audiotapes of Oz stories narrated by Ray Bolger, but did hear the record of his reading of "Queen Zixi," and didn't care for it -- thought the voices were too much exaggerated. Bear: you asked about jeans and peddle pushers. "Jeans" refers to the material (a durable twilled cotton). "Peddle pushers" refers to the length of the legs (short enough not to catch in the chain when biking). No necessary connection between the terms. // Suggestion to get rid of odd line breaks by adjusting the margins -- I tried that, and Dave said his machine wouldn't read the result. Peter Hanff suggested a setting I'll try next week, if Dave reports being able to read the trial message I sent him. I forget who asked about a list of Oz films, but the main list is "Oz Film Revisited," by Marc Lewis et al., "Bugle," Winter 1993 (updating of Lewis' "Oz on Film" Winter 1983; that issue also had an article on "Oz in Science Fiction Films" by Alan C. Elms). ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:32:33 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 David: I received _Santa Claus_ as a present when I was fairly young, so I do not know if it is available now. I didn't really want to read it at first, but, after I had read some of the Oz books, I gave _Santa_ a chance, and enjoyed it. I obtained Dover versions of _Zixi_ and _Mo_ at a bookstore, and the Dover _John Dough_ (which is probably out of print) at a Munchkin Convention Silent Auction. I found _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ at a library, and do not own copies of them. Steve: You're right about the ending of _Zixi_. _John Dough_ had a similar ending, mentioning Chick growing up. Melody: Dorothy might not have been able to bring any Ozian treasure with her to Kansas. At the end of _Gnome King_, Ozma was only able to send two of Polacky's bags of treasure to Philadelphia. Bear: We really don't need a newsgroup. One advantage to having a newsgroup would be that posts could be made at any time. A disadvantage is that it sometimes takes posts a good deal of time to reach other people. John: MOPPeT on Zurline revoking Nelanthe's immortality in _Forgotten Forest_ is that she didn't. After all, Nelanthe didn't ever die, so we do not know that she really did become a mortal. I hadn't thought about Ak, but you mentioned that he only visits every few decades. He might well have been busy in some other part of the world when Zurline's impostor was living in Burzee. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html "Oh, all right, but don't be gormish. You know how I detest gormishness." -Wag (BTW, does anyone know what "gormish" means?) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:41:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Re Nomes and Gnomes: If we were to assume they are the same species (which I am not suggesting, but if we were), we could say the name became mangled in the translation. (Of course, in that case we'd have to allege that Ozzish is not English, and that may be something we don't want to get into at this point.) Craig: True; the DIGEST is a newsgroup of its own merits. David Hulan: There is nothing as far as I can remember that clearly proves no time change can occur when travelling to Oz--that is, I think it possible that whenever one goes through the wormhole or whatever that gets one to Oz, one travels in time also. Therefore, I think it hard to date outside events by Oz time for sure. (Maybe it's just me, but that seems logical.) Concerning book lengths: wait until you get A TIME FOR OZ, or whatever we're calling it now! (That's assuming you get it, of course--it's the sequel to my EMERALD RING OF OZ, which also was longer than the average BEOO book, according to Chris.) Re Harold Shea: Sorry, but I can't resist--are "Dianetics" anything like "diaretics"? John White: You mention the idea that the enchantment is like a giant computer program--taking a long time to get all the parts running. Sounds sorta like bureaucracy too. That's it for today (sorry if I ran overtime here again). --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:49:03 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Mike - The printer's devil fell down on your edition. You are missing: On p. 134 of Chapter Nine .....City of Thi." He touched a button and a band began to play; at least, they heard the music of a band, but couldn't tell where it came from. "That tune is the order to my charioteer to bring around my dragon-chariot," said the High Coco-Lorum. "Every time I give........ Melody - Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure most would subscribe to these feelings. However, not to quibble, it is not clear to me how military school could "weaken" or "damage" one's heart. Are you sure Baum was not born with the condition or acquired it as a result of a disease? This points out to me that I need to read a Baum biography. Isn't there one in the works? I don't think I want to step between David and Melody but: >Both sexes have better things to do--like read Oz books, draw, write, knit, crochet, build furniture, carve, make soap, make toys, sew, write Oz books, stain glass, etc. etc., etc. :-) . I would think the reason some people, like David, went into the service was so that we would all be free to do those things you mention above. A primary reason to go to a "military school" is to prepare for a career in the military. The military is where you learn to kill people and break things. That function is pretty unpalatable in these days of "relative" peace. However, as history continues to show, as soon as we forget that the military is important we suffer for it. Some of us on the Digest were around when Pearl Harbor gave us a wake-up call to that effect. Maybe you noticed that Jimmy Carter put us in a real hole for awhile.... As to Clinton.... Anyway, pardon the non-Oz digression. Melody - I think you have it, Dorothy's silver slippers sure didn't survive the trip to Kansas. Arghhh - I peddled the wrong pedal. David - I have to admit I always sort of admired L. Ron. His early fiction was great but he concluded writing SF was not a way to earn much of a living. Can you relate to that? The way to do that was to start a religion.... so he did and the rest is history. I even knew some people who spent time holding tin cans and trying to get "clear" by removing their "engrams." I'm sure he was one of Werner's inspiration for EST. Sigh. Another digression. Bellicosely, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:22:06 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Nome King: It seems quite likely now that the Gnome/Nome King mentioned in _Santa Claus is either Roquat's father or possibly a true Gnome, quite different from a Nome. David: Indeed, if only the FF are considered, the first six could be squeezed quite tight, but that runs into problems with some of the non-FF. Nathan: That incident is really the only special thing about the number 47 in the Oz and Oz-related books. However, it has become a rather special number, and I theorized that this is the source of the use of 47, which crops up quite a lot in the world. Wooglet: I shall have to re-read that. THe WWII guys completely skipped my notice. Chris: How much for _As the Clock Strikes Oz_ and _Fairy Circle_? Jeremy: Your theory is not "impossible" as such. The key to those early dates is to deduce how old Dorothy is at the time of _Wizard_ and at the time of _Emerald City_, when she presumably stopped aging. If you factor in the possibility of age-slowing, then you have some play, but not much. Clearly, she aged at most only a few years between these two, but she definitely did not stay the same age either. Currently, I have a six-year gap and one year's worth of age-slowing, and it really does not seem like much more time than that passed, even considering the non-FF stuff. Michael: Baum never let on how the Tin Woodman took away the farmer's ability to walk with the animals, talk with the animals (uh, never mind), but it must have been Glinda. David: You will note that _Queer Visitors_, _The Wogglebug Book_, and _Third Book in Oz_ do not appear in the HACC. This has been a bone of contention between Chris and myself, but I feel, as you do, that they simply cannot be reconciled with even the Baum 14, despite that fact that they were written by Baum himself. I also like your theory that the "earthquake" was more of an interdimensional thing than any earthquake in our recorded history. In this way, we are not bound by that magical date of 1906. John: Dorothy must have aged at least a little after _Wizard_, since she was in our world for long periods of time, certainly time enough for the semi-Oz enchantment to stop having any effect. Her aging would probably have slowed some, though, which is why I have the one-year thing, and possibly two. If two years of age-slowing seems reasonable, then some of the pressure could be relieved in the timeline of the first six of the FF. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:50:26 -0500 (EST) From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 2-14-97 Chris/OzBucket; Come on, "fess up". Weren't those"Dorothy is a brat" comments, and saying your two year old niece is more mature, etc. just your way to "yank our collective chains" and stir up a little controversy?? (A two year old not going through the "terrible" stage is truly a remarkable child!!) Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:58:14 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Mike: "And that reminds me that I ought to entertain you, as strangers and my guests, by taking you for a ride around our splendid city of Thi." * HE TOUCHED A BUTTON AND A BAND BEGAN TO PLAY; AT LEAST, THEY HEARD THE MUSIC OF A BAND, BUT COULDN'T TELL WHERE IT CAME FROM. "THAT TUNE IS THE ORDER TO MY CHARIOTEER TO BRING AROUND MY DRAGON-CHARIOT," SAID THE HIGH Coco-Lorum. "Every time I give an order it is in music [etc.] The stuff in caps is (obviously) what's missing. Maybe you could try _Patchwork Girl_ next, since he now knows Scraps...or _Scarecrow_, since he now knows Button-Bright. And both books are solidly written. -------- I think it'd be neat if we covered _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_. -------- Gnome King: I've been lurking on the thread of who was the Nome King in which book. Onyx Madden's next book has quite a bit to say about that. Yes, I'm in hopes there'll be a next book. Jim Nitch had, essentially, finished it before his death. -------- If any of you are planning on attending this year's Winkie Conference AND if you can sing or do some kind of a talent show act, PLEASE let me know. Yep. I think we're gonna do an in-house talent show. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:22:53 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Magical Monarch of Mo: Does anyone know anything about a 1947 Bobbs-Merrill edition of this book? It's illustrated by Evelyn Copelman. I have the Dover edition, which is illustrated by Frank Ver Beck. Is Copelman an entirely new illustrator for this edition? Or does this have something to do with MMM being a new version of _A New Wonderland_? -- Craig Daum, L. Frank, "The Magical Monarch of Mo ", 1947, ill. by Evelyn Copelman, dust jacket ( frayed along edge ), Bobb-Merrill Co., $ 30.00. Richard ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Ozzy Digest: YEW, etc. DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > YEW is a special case, with no ties to either Oz or our world, and therefore > shouldn't be in the HACC or HI/RCC either one. YEW does have links with SANTA CLAUS. At one point the fairy refers to Santa Claus becoming an immortal. That means the events in YEW must have occurred after Santa became immortal. Other tie-ins are when the fairy receives aid from some knooks and ryls, who are also mentioned in SANTA CLAUS. The fairy herself, however, seems to be a completely different sort from the ones in SANTA CLAUS. I think these tie-ins are enough to place YEW in the Baum Universe. "Stephen J. Teller" writes: > There is a problem with ZIXI since the ending deals with events after > the end of the story. There is a similar problem with DOUGH. At the very end there is a comment about chick growing up, yet chick appears as a child in ROAD. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ======================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:04:19 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Steve: Good point, that ZIXI concludes with events that happen well after the end of the main story. Yet it appears that the main story of ZIXI can't take place long before ROAD, since Button-Bright thinks of King Bud as a suitable playmate for himself, and Button-Bright can't be much older than four in that book. Either Baum was prognosticating at the end of ZIXI, or the whole early Oz canon has to be shoved back in time several more years. Nathan: The IE that got left in GLASS CAT was the encounter in Cowville. (Cowville, incidentally, was put in as a dig at my friend Bruce Coville, who named the title character of his book MY TEACHER GLOWS IN THE DARK "Hoo-Lan".) Cut out were the details of Barry and Becky's encounter with the Winkie family while they waited for Cap'n Bill's boat to catch them, and what happened to Button-Bright when he wandered off from the camp and the Hungry Tiger had to find him, at about the point where Barry and Becky joined the others. I don't want to give details on the latter, since as a matter of parsimony I may have a use for that incident in some future book. Chris D.: I say NO on Third Book, which is inconsistent with the FF, though I'm neutral on including the Little Wizard Stories. They're pretty slight, so I can't see much serious discussion of them, but at least they're consistent with the FF. Jeremy: I figured Chris was only being rhetorical in his urge to spank Dorothy, but if he meant it... The theory of Dorothy's aging slowing radically after OZMA becomes a problem if you try to stretch the interval from OZMA to EC out very long, because if you say the events of EC happened near its publication date she should have been going through puberty during that time, and Uncle Henry and Aunt Em would have noticed she wasn't. If you compress the time from OZMA to EC, then you don't really need to invoke slowed aging in our world. Shaggy: Others will probably provide this as well, but your book lost a significant chunk of text. It goes: He touched a button and a band began to play; at least, they heard the music of a band, but couldn't tell where it came from. "That tune is the order to my charioteer to bring around my dragon-chariot," said the High Coco-Lorum. Melody: I didn't see any armed combat. But your comment appeared to be focused on training, not on wartime experience. If you were saying that fighting in a war creates psychological problems, then I can't speak for myself, though I've known a great many people who did see armed combat and didn't seem the worse for it. But military service in itself doesn't have that much of a dehumanizing effect on people, in my experience. And certainly being brutalized is no fun, and I'd much rather not have gone through it, given a choice. On the other hand, living under a Nazi or Communist dictatorship isn't any fun, either, and there were times when those would have been the alternatives, as opposed to all the fun things you mention, unless some reasonable number of people were willing to be trained to fight. Bear: Ruth may answer you herself, but she doesn't always respond to Digests, so I'll say that "lrp" is shorthand for "large reputable publisher", which was a term she'd used a bit earlier in her post. John W.: We know that Jenny Jump was de-aged at one point in WONDER CITY, but that's the only evidence we have that the aging process in Oz can be reversed. And if it were easy, one would expect that the Wizard, for instance, would de-age himself some. Ozma, I'm sure, can make herself any age she wishes by now, although I think that's something that she didn't learn until after LOST PRINCESS. (As has been remarked frequently in the Digest, Ozma shows no signs of having any more magic power than Dorothy does until TIN WOODMAN.) If faced with a contradiction between a Shanower graphic novel of Oz and a Baum non-Oz book that he ties directly into the Oz series, I think I have to give the nod to Baum for authenticity. I agree with you that Zurline doesn't have the power to revoke immortality, nor would an imposter, so I think we can safely say that Nelanthe's immortality wasn't actually revoked; that part was just empty words. As for the exile, it does seem inconsistent with what we know of Zurline's character from SC, but maybe she'd had a bad day or something and was unusually irritable. (Do Wood Nymphs get PMS?) Possibly she regretted it later but by then had committed herself. David Hulan =========================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:36:26 -0500 (EST) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz post I e-mailed Barbara a list of all the Oz-theme plays in the IWOC home page/reference timeline. If any of you want it, too, let me know. It is a couple pages long, so would be inappropriate to post in the Digest. I've recently asked someone to undertake proofreeding the timeline for typo-type errors. If he agrees, it should help force me to stop procrastinating and update it. So, if any of you (film details, Scott H? or more pastiches/translations anyone?) know anything to add or fix that I might not be aware of, please e-mail me at Ozisus@aol.com and I'll add it to the list of new material. Since I last updated it, Our Landlady, the Brandywine Denslow publication, and Cox's revised/expanded MGM Munchkin book have been published. Those sources, along with Digest commentary, have provided quite a bit of good material. I've also written Roger Baum and contacted one of Harry Neal Baum's local grandsons to complete some missing geneology info. Jane =========================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: oz Wooglet had a large degree of Time travel in it. Note that I myself appear in it, and I sure wasn't around back when its main action took place. At least, I don't THINK I'm that old... No, we clearly had gone back in time. I was there and can vouch for it. Opodock, a Copyrighted Thompson character? OFFICIALLY FOR THE RECORD: No way! He was an original Fred Otto character who had a common name. I have known many guys named Opodock. I used to hang around with an Opodock in Junior High, and he was NOT a Copyrighted Thompson character. UNOFFICIALLY OFF THE RECORD: Oops... I hadn't remembered the character from Thompson at all, and he must have snuck past me... Shaggy Man: Gee, I had forgotten that I made that statement. I intended it to be funny (but sure, send your kid on over!) And just what is wrong with being 4.5? My niece is now a little bit more than 3, but has never even SEEN an Oz book. Well, she's seen them when she was here, but never actually picked one up. She's more of a Pooh and Barney person, I think. Has your child finished the "cute little story?" I'd like to see it. Maybe you can post it on the Digest so we can all enjoy it? David: Ummm. When I mentioned length, I was talking about CURRENT books, not stuff I wrote ten or eleven years ago. In those days, I was catering more to the Collectors than the Readers. Now I feel that the Collectors have BoW and YBR, etc etc, so quantity isn't so much of an issue and I can put more effort into making books the way I want them to be. FWIW, Queen Ann was a lot longer than any of BoW's other offerings when it was submitted to me. I guess they had to shorten it so that Collectors could afford it as well as Readers. I still maintain that it was a lot better in its original form. And I never meant to imply that anyone could be an absolute Collector or Reader. I think everyone is somewhere in the middle. I myself am more of a Reader. Of course I would take a good but very plain-looking book to a very handsome and elaborately-produced chunk of drivel. If I have a choice between a good but plain-looking book (aka Framed Fairy-which had no illustrations and a very plain typeface) and one that is beautiful to look at but hideous to read (aka Green Dolphin), I will always go for the better story. Of course, if two stories are EQUALLY good but one is unillustrated and the other has nice pictures, and both are the same price, I will naturally go for the prettier one. Of course, I'd rather go for BOTH if at all possible. So I do have some Collector tendencies. I'll stop now, before aol shuts me off. ========================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 11:17:26 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Hippikaloric! Three days to catch up! I'd better be selective... OZZY SUBJECT LINES: David H: wrote: >We just have to make sure that what we put in the subject line for discussion >includes "Oz", right? (That is, "Discussion of WIZARD" wouldn't work with >your automated setup.) Yes. (For all you newcomers, the letters "Oz" should be in your subject lines, just to make your Digest editor's life a litter easier...) CHRIS' REMARKS ON DOROTHY: FWIW, I think when Dorothy said "I don't care about *you* -- I just care that I get what *I* want" (or words to that effect), she was just expressing raw frustration at her situation, being so far from home (and the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman's petty bickering wasn't helping matters any). BCF'S: Do I take it then, that there's a unanimous "Yes" for our doing _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_, a resounding "No" for _Visitors/Wogglebug_, and _Queen Zixi_ and _Little Wizard Stories_ are still up for grabs? :) MELODY, BEAR, DAVID H, AND MILITARY TRAINING: Bear "growled": >Melody - Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure most would subscribe to these >feelings. However, not to quibble, it is not clear to me how military school >could "weaken" or "damage" one's heart. I think Melody means "heart" in the Tin Woodman's sense...And I can definitely see how a strict military environment could be psychologically devastating to someone as sweet and gentle as I gather Baum was... >I would think the reason some people, like David, went into the service was so >that we would all be free to do those things you mention above. A primary >reason to go to a "military school" is to prepare for a career in the military. >The military is where you learn to kill people and break things. That function >is pretty unpalatable in these days of "relative" peace. However, as history >continues to show, as soon as we forget that the military is important we >suffer for it. I fully appreciate the necessity of a military to defend ourselves, but I still think that, a dire emergency like Pearl Harbor not withstanding, no one should be forced to take up arms against thier will...(To paraphrase Grampa in _You Can't Take It With You_: "There will always people who *like* to be in the military, you can't stop them.") Ultimate nightmare scenario that let us all hope never gets written: "The Tin Woodman Gets Drafted"! :O :O :O SANTA'S GNOME KING: My MOPPET is that "Nomes" are undergroud-dwelling creatures, currently ruled by Kaliko, and that a "Gnome" is how comedians describe Ross Perot... :) Seriously, I think that, in Baumgea at least, "Nomes" and "Gnomes" are two entirely different races, and indeed that it was Thompson, not Baum, who got her spelling wrong... "BORDER'S" IN OC!!!: Ha Ha Ha! Ho Ho Ho! And a couple of Tra La Las! "Border's Books" has opened a store in my home turf of Orange County, CA and they have *tons* of Oz books! Well, okay -- just a shelf and a half, but that's much more than most places have, and they have Books of Wonder/ECP books!!! I bought _Merry-Go-Round_ and _Queen Ann_ (ironic I know, given that Eric just unsubscribed from the Digest)! They also have a lot of CD's and videos -- I got the great Elaine Paige's recording of _Anything Goes_, which I thought wasn't to be had in the States ( sorry for that slight non-Ozzy note :) )! "THE TRUTH ABOUT 47": Ever since reading the article with the above title in the now-defunct magazine "Science '", I too have suffered from "47 fever"...In terms of the planet Nonestica, it seems an appropriate complement, with 42 ("The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything") dominant in Carrollgea, while 47 ("The Agent of Infinite Change") rules in Baumgea! -- Dave P.S. If there are any Ross Perot supporters on the Digest, I apologize for the above non-Ozzy political joke I made ( You're a bad influence on me, Bear! :) :) ). ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 16, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:19:24 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Jeremy: It's certainly possible to postulate that Oz time and our-Earth time aren't the same. But in that case the HACC becomes meaningless, and might as well be dropped. I've read and enjoyed EMERALD RING, and will certainly get A TIME FOR OZ, or whatever its title ends up being, when it becomes available. EMERALD RING didn't seem that long to me, though - about the same length as the published version of QUEEN ANN. I could be wrong, though; I'm only going by how long it took me to read it. Bear: It's certainly possible that something at the military school could have damaged Baum's heart - especially if he already had a heart problem (e.g., scarred valves from rheumatic fever). The hard physical exertion that's normally part of military training can certainly cause further damage to a heart muscle that's already weakened, though in general it's good for a normal healthy heart. >Maybe you noticed that Jimmy Carter put us in a real hole for awhile.... I try not to argue politics here, but you started it, repeating a standard Republican lie. The big cutbacks in the military after Vietnam were during the Nixon-Ford years; Carter almost immediately started a new buildup, but the Reagan Big Lie has been repeated so often that a lot of people believe it, so I feel the need to correct it any time it appears in my sight. Glinda specifically said that if Dorothy wished herself back to Kansas with the Magic Belt, it would disappear. There's a good deal of evidence that most objects from Oz won't get back to our world. (Though when Dorothy proposed taking Ozma to Kansas and taking a lot of jewels along with them in EC, nobody said anything about its being impossible. And we know that one of the circlets of Halidom got to Oregon somehow, and the Love Magnet got to our world. I'd say the question is one that might repay a research project; has anyone done it yet? (Analyzing which objects have been movable from Baumgea to our world, and which haven't.)) Tyler: Since I don't think I've read any non-FF book that takes place within the span of the first six books and that seems to fit the HACC (except the Random Housies, which I don't see as presenting a problem), I can't evaluate the difficulty of squeezing the timeline further. Craig: I know that THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO was illustrated by Ver Beck in the original edition, and I think they were the same illlustrations that were in A NEW WONDERLAND. The Copleman-illustrated version has to be a redo, like the Copleman-illustrated version of WIZARD from the '40s. John W.: I'm not sure that a tie-in to SANTA CLAUS is enough to tie YEW into the Oz universe, since Santa is also part of our universe, and may cross freely into yet other universes as well. Ryls are also found in our universe (see "The Yellow Ryl," a story in BAUM'S AMERICAN FAIRY TALES), and knooks may well be also - though there's no proof of that - so they may also be in still other universes. It is a point to consider, though. Chris D.: I always thought that Opodock was a sadly wasted character in OJO; he's clearly a major magical force in Oz, and he whoofs in and out in just over a page. It seems possible to me that DCM might not have too much heartburn at someone else using a character who was that minor. (I wonder, for that matter, what she thought of my using Delva and the Delves in a story that was in OZIANA a couple of years ago. I can plead innocence there, though; I wasn't aware that sending it to the Story Circle - which would be legal as private circulation - was considered submitting it to OZIANA, and the first I knew it was going to be published was when a correspondent told me she'd read it in OZIANA and liked it. So the responsibility for publication is on Robin, not me, and I assume she either cleared it with DCM or figured it didn't matter for such minor characters. Robin?) I don't know how long QUEEN ANN was in its original version, although I'd understood from Eric that they hadn't had to shorten it much for its BoW publication. Even as published, it's longer than most BoW books, no question about that, but it's shorter than GLASS CAT or GIANT GARDEN. (Most BoW books are in the 18-20,000 word range. I estimated QUEEN ANN at around 28,000; GLASS CAT is about 35,000, and GIANT GARDEN must be around 40,000, which is longer than several of the FF.) I don't think, though, it's fair to divide the market into Collectors and Readers. I think most Oz fans would prefer to buy FF-length books; I doubt you'd find any significant number who'd say that they'd rather have two 20,000 word books rather than one 40,000 word book. But you'll find quite a lot who'd rather have a 20,000 word book than no book at all. Dave: >(For all you newcomers, the letters "Oz" should be in your subject >lines, just to make your Digest editor's life a litter easier...) And when did you get off the boat from Japan? :-) Actually, Dorothy never -said- "I don't care about *you* -- I just care that I get what *I* want"; Baum reported her as -thinking- something that could be interpreted along those lines, though I think it's a stretch. Melody can tell us herself what she meant by military school damaging Baum's heart, but certainly he had a bad heart most of his life, and it eventually killed him. So the literal physical meaning could be valid, as I said to Bear. Nobody can be forced to take up arms against their will. There's always the option of going to prison, even when there's a draft. And there hasn't been one of those in this country since 1973, IIRC - some such year. Almost a quarter century. And aside from the 1941-1973 period, the only other time there's been one in the US was during the Civil War, and that one wasn't very effective. Generally the only time that a draft has been in force has been when the need for troops outpaced the level of qualified volunteers. There's been a Borders in OC for a couple of years now; there's one down near the El Toro Y. (In Mission Viejo, I think.) I take that there's now one more convenient to Huntington Beach? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:27:51 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Ruth: Ray Bolger's voices were quite exaggerated in his readings, especially those that he used for the female characters. Of course, it would have been quite difficult for Ray to produce voices that actually sounded feminine. Bear: We are never really sure if the Silver Shoes disappeared when Dorothy was crossing the boundary from Nonestica to the Great Outside World (as Glinda suggests in _Ozma_), or if they just fell off (as was suggested in _Wizard_). Tyler: I agree that _Queer Visitors_ and _The Woggle-Bug Book_ should not be included in the HACC. There is an excellent chance that Baum did not intend these works to be part of the Oz series. Craig: Evelyn Copelman illustrated editions of _Wizard_ and _Mo_ at some point in time (the fifties, I believe). I do not have any Copelman-illustrated books, but I understand that her illustrations were quite different from those by Denslow and VerBeck. John: I think that we can safely place the Enchanted Island of Yew in Baumgea (and the location given on the Haff and Martin map, east of Hiland-Loland, seems to be as good a place for it as any), but we do not know when the story of _Yew_ takes place in relation to the Oz series. David: I believe that my brother read some books by Bruce Coville. It's true that Jenny Jump is the only one who was de-aged within the FF. Maybe Jenny's being a fairy helped the Wizard to de-age her, or Psychopompus might have aided the Wizard. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I hate everybody and everybody hates me." -Ruggedo (Also, I think the Boolooroo uses a similar line.) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:20:09 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Copelman Mo: Nice book. Yes, Copelman (who also illustrated WoZ) did completely new illos for it. MINOR SPOILER FOR _GIANT HORSE_ Time between U.S. and Oz: Benny says: "It was night and now it is day. I was there and now I am here, " after he arrives in Oz. No indicators in preceding text that much time (seems like a matter of minutes) passes in transit. "...the stone man...crashed through this crust [of earth] as if it had been paper and plunged into a damp darkness. "What now?" groaned the statue dismally....'Am I a bird? Why, Oh why did I ever leave my pedestal?' But wishing made no difference at all and down he dropped to the very bottom of no where. Then all at once he crashed through a crust of blue sky...." This may not be the only textual evidence that time may be different "here" and "there," but it's the only one I've ever noticed. Ross Perot: Never forget that "Ross" is a four-letter word. Military/Dehumanizing: Here they come! My $ .002 worth (plink, plink). All I can think of when I read the posts and riposts a is how my daughter learned how to swear like a sailor in the Navy. She *is* in the Navy, and there definitely is a good reason why we have that "swear like a sailor" phrase in our slanguage. You should hear the people around her when she calls me from the barracks! Expletives, cursing, and "words"--oh my! But seriously, folks, my impression about Baum and the military school is that the physical discipline was too much for him. --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:58:03 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - Thanks for the clarification on use of characters. Interesting. Nathan - Well, you can't beat our Digest then, thanks to Dave, we have next day response! Dave - Glad to have been of assistance. :) :) I finished our taxes and broke 30 minutes today so the whole world looks bright and cheery! Influentially, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:10:47 -0600 (CST) From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Oz stuff (sort of) Dave-- Wow! You know Bruce Coville? I have read most of his books (his writing style and creative ideas are similar to my own) and have recently sent a query for a manuscript of mine to Minstrel books (his usual publisher, right?) Any chance he is as big of an Oz fan as you, so he might try to use his experience in getting an Oz book published "mainstream?" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:43:54 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ruth: What you say about non-profit organization is true to a large extent, but just in case anybody gets any funny ideas, please remember that the IWOOC is on the few non-profits that does NOT rake in huge piles of cash. Jeremy: Your comments to David sound a lot like Narnia. That is, time in one Universe flows differently than in another, and the ratio changes. However, in the case of Narnia, the time difference was commented on extensively, while in Oz there is not even a whisper of it. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:49:50 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Please bear with me, folks. I have another question: Where can I find reliable information about book repairs? Who to go to? How much does it cost? When is it worth it?, etc.. The book in question is a first edition of _Father Goose: His Book_, a birthday present from my father. It's a beautiful book, but the hinges are shot and about 2/3 of the binding on the spine is gone. Thanks in advance for your advice, Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:25:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Nomes and Gnomes in Oz Empire 1) This discussion of nomes and gnomes is getting really spooky; I have always assumed 'nome' was a Baumian respelling of 'gnome', especially since Thompson took the liberty of restoring the original spelling. Considering that both nomes and gnomes are underground dwellers who make metals (among other things), there doesn't seem in any version of Oz to be a major difference between the two, if any difference. The only possible claim that nomes are not gnomes is that nomes can be harmed by eggs (albeit what the damage is is not clear; Roquat survived being hit in the faces with _two_ eggs in _Ozma_). In Lurline's Machine, however, the working model is that all fairies and other amortals (sylphs, salamanders, undines, wedelons, erbs, daemons, jann, etc.)--as opposed to the true immortal Supreme Master (God)--, while they will not normally die, can be destroyed in unusual circumstances. Thus in the Adelmanian version of Oz, at least, there is no reason to draw a distinction between gnomes and nomes. A more probable, if unlikely, idea: Locasta is really Gayelette, which, as far as I can tell, works if we discount Abbot's _The Magic Chest of Oz_, Roger S. Baum's _Dorothy of Oz_ (which really deserves to be ignored), and Laumer's _The Frogman of Oz_ (which is heretical in the first place). 2) Can anyone please provide biographical information on Geoff Ryman (author of _Was_)? I am now 2/3 through his book, and I am having fantasies about him feeling extreme pain (via things like angry bears, watching _Barney and Friends_, falling into hydrochloric acid, direct stimulation of the pain centers of his brain, and making him listen to "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" starting from infinity). The best thing I can think of is putting him into a parody of the Oz heresies called _The Broad Side of a Barn in Oz_ which Barry and I talk about writing from time to time after we finish Lurline's Machine (obviously not as a hero--Sharts and Blogo of Farmer's _A Barnstormer in Oz_ got the job of protagonist and sidekick), and to do it right, he definitely needs to be in character. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:35:42 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Dave, Dave & Bear: This is from memory, folks, so if anyone wants to correct or fill in details they're welcome--while in military school, the young L. Frank Baum was yelled at by an instructor. This upset him so badly he suffered a heart attack. Baum probably had a weak heart when he went in--and a heart attack would weaken it further. Baum had to (or got to :-) ) leave military school because of this. Yes, Dave Hardenbrook, your conjecture that the kindly, gentle dreamer Baum found the harshness of military school painful is correct. It likely broke his figurative heart--but it broke his real heart, too. Thus, the Tin Woodman's preoccupation with his heart seems to reflect his creator's preoccupation with his. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 02:22:44 -0500 (EST) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Craig: Evelyn Copelman re-illustrated (in my opinion ruined) the art on the Wizard and Magical Monarch. These books are not particularly valuable, although PBA considered the Copelman Magical Monarch fine in DJ to be worth 50/80 (it sold for $25). If you like the book, get it. If you're looking for a good buy, hold out for an earlier copy (ask Herm). Robin: I will be at the Winkie Conference again - this time hopefully with my family in tow - and I promise not to sing. Everyone: I am looking for a color plate for Babes in Birdland as my copy is missing one plate. Can anyone help? Joel ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 06:59:44 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Oz Nathan DeHoff writes: > MOPPeT on Zurline revoking Nelanthe's immortality in _Forgotten Forest_ is > that she didn't. Well, OK. The Impostor-Zurline might very well have claimed powers that she didn't have. The other nymphs would have noticed the change in Zurline, so the impostor may have gotten paranoid and decided to "demonstrate" her power. So she pretended to revoke Nelanthe's immortality, then banished her so that nobody would notice that Nelanthe was, in fact, still immortal. Later, Nelanthe fell 50 feet onto her head, and the impostor had to "restore" her immortality before anyone realized that she wasn't physically injured. Tyler Jones writes: > Dorothy must have aged at least a little after _Wizard_, since she was in > our world for long periods of time, certainly time enough for the semi-Oz > enchantment to stop having any effect. For all we know her metabolism was altered so that her growth was halted PERMANENTLY. Of course, she clearly is younger than 11 in WIZARD and OZMA, so some aging occurred between then and E. CITY. But suppose that in WIZARD Dorothy is 7, and her growth is halted. Then the events in OZMA occur 6 years later, and Dorothy is still physically 7. By that time everyone (in the US) is frantic that this 13 year old girl still looks like she is 7, and Dorothy is feeling the pressure to grow older. So in OZMA she returns to Oz wanting to grow older, and her growth restarts. Then in E. CITY (4 years later) Ozma asks Dorothy to halt her growth again. My main point is that saying "people would have noticed" is no argument since we have absolutely no evidence that people didn't notice. From: DavidXOE@aol.com > We know that Jenny Jump was de-aged at one point in WONDER CITY, but that's > the only evidence we have that the aging process in Oz can be reversed. And > if it were easy, one would expect that the Wizard, for instance, would de-age > himself some. Why would the Wizard want to de-age? He already feels young on the inside, and he probably prefers to look "distinguished" on the outside. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Ultimate nightmare scenario that let us all hope never gets written: > "The Tin Woodman Gets Drafted"! :O :O :O commander of an army in OZMA.) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:11:36 -0500 (EST) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 MOPPeTs and poppets: Button Bright's age and apparent intelligence boost between Road and Sky Island: What if we are reasoning from a misconception, having misjudged his age in Road? He is described (IIRC) as looking about 3 or 4. How did Dot and Shaggy (and Baum, for that matter) come to that conclusion? Probably because most people guess small children's ages by their size. What if he was big for his age? Say he was a bit short of his third birthday when he wandered off and was swept up in the magic distortion field that caught Dorothy and put her on the road to OZ? If we think of him as a toddler rather than as a preschooler his ignorance becomes a bit more understandable (large children are often perceived as stupid by people who are expecting them to respond at levels appropriate to an older child). He is an unnaturally placid and self-contained toddler, to be sure, but those are traits which stay with him. It is only his apparent intelligence which changes. And that might become more understandable if we admit that Dot and Shaggy may have been mistaken in the first place. Not having read Sky Island, I do not know what age Button Bright is described as being there. Actually, Button Bright is about the only link which we have between Dorothy and Trot and the passage of time in the outside world. If he did not exist, there would be nothing to say just when the three American girls immigrated to Oz. Betsy might have come to Oz a decade after Dorothy, Trot may have lagged by a generation or so, but Button bright ties the package into a max of some 6-8 years (accepting that he may have been something less than 3 years old in Road, and as much as 8 or 9 in Scarecrow). Since I rather like the idea that there may have been more time passing in Oz between the arrivals of Dorothy, Betsy and Trot, the problem represented by Button Bright is an unwelcome one. But one can't always have what one wants, so adjust. On time in and out of Oz: I agree with David that the time period between Ozma and Road must have been no more than a year and a half, and possibly less. The circumstances surrounding the kickoffs for Ozma and DotWiz are certainly tied to each other, and for Ozma to bring Dorothy back to Oz for her party within a few months after DotWiz is the sort of thing that for a ruler who is, herself, a child with access to magical powers, is no more than understandable. I also think that, unless there is something in the text of Emerald City to say otherwise, that book took place less than a year after Road, since Ozma would have otherwise brought Dorothy back to Oz to attend her next birthday party as well. The gap between Wiz and Ozma, covering the Scarecrow's reign as well as Jinjur's uprising and the restoration of the monarchy, might very well have been longer than a single year. Two to two and a half seems much more likely. Except for the problem of Button Bright, however, there isn't much of anything to say that Dorothy may not have been safely away in Oz well before the start of the 20th century. Neil could only be illustrating the books in present day America, and Thompson was certainly most likely to be writing her stories in the present day as well, but Baum may have known about Dorothy's adventures for decades before ever putting pen to paper regarding them. On Auntie Em and Uncle Henry: I also agree that David may very well be right about Uncle Henry and Aunt Em being Dorothy's great-uncle and aunt. A hard life on the Kansas prairie may have a bad effect on one's looks, but it does not make you unfit for future employment. In Emerald City, when the farm is all but lost. Their regretful plans to send Dorothy to work in a factory rather than stating that they would ALL have to go to work in a factory, would tend to indicate that they knew that the factory would not have hired them. Now, unbridled capitalism, being what it is, might very well (and, in fact, did) produce factories which hired children, to whom they could pay a pittance, turning them off once(if) they grew old enough to demand more wages, but all factories were not so, and Uncle H's implied conviction that he and Em would not be able to find work in the city could have only been due to a knowledge that there was some obvious condition that would preclude their employment, such as old age or ill health. Now, he, himself may well have never completely recovered from the breakdown in his health a couple of years earlier, but I don't recall that there was ever anything said about Em also being frail. If Dorothy was 11 when the farm was lost, and Em and Henry were too old to be hired in a factory, there must be a generation missing or unaccounted for somewhere. On dwarfish Munchkins: Gingema was a dwarf herself. Dwarfism is not uncommon in Oz, as can be seen by the number of other child-sized characters encountered throughout the FF. She did not want normal-sized people around her, towering over her. So she cast an overlay spell that prevented anyone living within a day's travel or so from her personal stomping ground from growing any taller than herself. Aft er a generation she effectively had produced a district populated by dwarfed Munchkins. Once she was destroyed, the spell ended. Since there had been no actual genetic changes made, any child thereafter who chose to grow up grew to normal height. There was another one, but I can't think of it right now. Pedel-pushers were a length, not a fabric, although they were generally made of comparitively lightweight materials. They were also based on casual slacks, rather than on jeans, the cut is different. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:14:59 -0600 (CST) From: Tim Allison Subject: Oz books I walked into the local science fiction bookstore, and saw shelves of late Oz books, and thought how thrilling I would have found that as a child. Even though they were in print-hardbound only-you had to special order everything but the Baum books. I noticed the post about the Borders carrying them-remember when we thought the chains were going to make everything but current best sellers obselete? The Borders and Giant Crowns and Barnes and Nobles are so big they have to carry obscure stuff to fill their shelves. Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 15:01:48 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things If Ozma could form an army (and draft the Tin Man into it -- given his revulsion for even stepping on a bug I can't believe he volunteered) for the purpose of liberating the Royal Family of Ev, why did she have such a problem with forming an army to protect her *OWN* country in _Emerald City_??? Jellia: That was all in her early, immature days of ruling... :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:58:31 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Dave: _Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyalar Ulkesinde_ (I spelled it wrong before, as a leftover of Matc Lewis's misspelling in the Bugle. It's in Turkish. It was post -dubbed, so the lip sync is far from perfect, but if you pay attention, you can tell that the actors are actually saying what it sounds like they are. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:02:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Steven: Isn't Worra a character from the Volkov novels, though, even if the monkeys are not enchanted people, I'm sure I heard that name before. At any rate it is well defined as an experimental production. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:05:12 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Steve T.: Didn't Kabumpo go public domain this year? Ralph Griffith and Stuart Kerr mentioned Kabumpo locations in the lastest issue of _Oz_, which ought to confirm that Kabumpo can be used without royalty. Anyway, I'm going by what Tyler Jones told me. So it would be Lion next year, Grampa in '99, and Lost King in 200, right? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Tyler: In EC, Baum says (I'm virtually quoting, but I don't have my copy here) that no one in Oz ever died unless he met with an accident that kept him from living. That's in ch 2 or 3, when Baum talks about Emerald City social structure. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:17:04 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Since theree is no possiblity of using Peter, I'll just include that he will have to be changed to an original characters, since surely there would be time for additional editing and revision after the winner was selected. I don't have a problem with putting in a new character known to the Ozites. But it would be weird, considering I have another original character already known to the Ozites. It really doesnn't have to be Peter, but I don't want to root through it right now when I haven't decided exactily how to change it. I know it can be done. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:18:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 In Alex Cox's film, _Repo Man_, there is a parody of dianetics called "diuretics." ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:20:08 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 Marie Candler Richardson said that VCRs are mentioned in Queen Ann, making 1947 a pretty early estimate. My novel should be no trouble. I give the exact dates it occurs. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:26:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-15-97 In my novel I assume that the Gnome King in _Claus_ was a typo, but that nomes are different creatures, oh, well. I don't even think I actually said anything about the Nome King in Sana in this one, something for the sequels. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:50:24 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97 well i finally finished watching baums silent oz movies and i must say i think they hold up well though the soudntrack is annoying at times i think they were pretty well done for their day and even some of the special effects were pretty cool question is how do we fit these into oz history or do we even try hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:31:32 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Nathan and Bear: The Silver Shoes pop up now and again in some non-FF titles. The only way to explain this is to postulate that there may be more than one pair. Once, they even surfaced as the Ruby Slippers. Jenny Jump: SHe was de-aged after the Thompsonian era of the FF, when the Ozites had so much magical power available to them that nothing would have been impossible. Aaron: I have always assumed that *Nomes* were the fairy version of *Gnomes*, although if both species live in the same Fairyland, this may not be the case. I believe that Baum clearly intended his Nomes to be different from Gnomes, as "Nome" means "Someone who knows", although as you pointed out, they share quite a number of similarities. Maybe Gnomes live in Baumgea, but are not fairy creatures. Locasta = Gaylette: Hmmm, probably not, though they may be related, discounting March Laumer, of course, said relationships I will not go into at this time. John: There may be something in what you say. The early part of the Baum line on the HACC really needs to be "un-squeezed" by a year or two, as well as making Dorothy about 7, which I feel is an appropriate age for her. The only obstacle was the fact that people would have noticed that she was not growing up, and as you say that may not really be a problem after all. The Wizard: Fantasy is full of people like the Wizard who could probably de-age themselves, but prefer the look of an older man, giving them a level of authority and respect that they would not automatically receive if they appeared to be young, such as Good Magician Humfery and Belgarath the Sorcerer. Jodel: Button-Bright appears to be about the same age as Trot in _Sky Island_. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97 Cc: Eric Gjovaag Hi! Back after a crazy week which included auditions and casting for a play I will be directing this semester, parting from my mother on her way back to Israel twice (between our two farewells she was hospitalized in New-York for a couple of days with a kidney stone, but is now as good as new and back in Israel) and a nasty cold that sapped a great deal of my energy. But here I am. My two cents: if military service was automatically dehumanizing, that would be very bad news for a country like mine where military service is compulsory for all eighteen year olds. I did my own 2 plus years of service, and I have my own criticism based on experience not stereotypes: I saw plenty of negative things, and plenty of people whose physical health suffered due to their service, and many people who were emotionally scarred by things that happened to them or things they found themselves doing, and some men whose chauvinism was reinforced by serving in an army in which women are not allowed in "combat" positions (including flight training of any kind), and many people who learned some colorful language there. But nonetheless in general I would NOT consider it a dehumanizing experience. For some people that I know, I would actually say the opposite. On a different key: while I was in New York visiting my mother after her bout in hospital, I went to see a play in the Brooklyn Academy of Music's newly rennovated Majestic theatre. This theatre opened in 1904 with a production of Baum's "The Wizard of Oz". It was rennovated in a very interesting way: the floor was carpeted and seats were renewed, electricity and pluming installed etc, but the wall were left virtually untouched: crumbling plaster on which the traces of fancy murals can still be made out, ornate pillars supporting bare beams and more crumbling plaster... The past grandeur of the theatre is visible through the ruins. And yet with the new flooring, lights etc, the theatre is fully operational: it is a little like modern walkways installed in historical ruins of the pyramids or something like that, making them more accesible to tourists without obscuring or interfering with the historical artifacts... very interesting. A little spooky. I could shut my eyes and imagine "The Wizard of Oz" produced there nearly a century ago. Worth a visit, especially if you are also going to see the excellent play I saw, "The Stewart of Christendom". Gili ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gili Bar-Hillel abhillel@fas.harvard.edu gili@scso.com http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== "He thought he saw an Elephant |\ _,,,---,,_ That practised on a fife: /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ He looked again, and found it was |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' A letter from his wife. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) 'At length I realise,' he said, (cat by Felix Lee) 'The bitterness of Life!'" - Lewis Carrol, "Sylvie and Bruno" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:19:16 -0500 (EST) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: THE WIZARD OF OZ and other Digest comments Hi! A few comments before I get to the WIZARD overview... Ruth Berman wrote: <> I was fortunate enough to read the original edition at the Harvard library about ten years ago, and I'm really not anxious to do so again. Besides, I'm not really that big a fan of Abbott's art, but I do think Denslow did an excellent job on the original edition <> I'm still confused. You indicated Maryott *was* willing to sell the rights to the IWOOC and/or the McGraws, but wouldn't be willing to sell them to, say, Scott or Bear. What's the distinction? Was it that the McGraws were "official" Oz writers (having written an FF book) and hence deserved more courtesy? Or, as I speculated in the past, did Maryott change her policy after reading some other writer (*not* the McGraws, you made clear) handling her characters in a way she disliked? If the former, does that mean she might allow Rachel Cosgrove Payes to do a story using the Red Jinn? And if the latter, would she reconsider if given veto power over any and all uses of RPT characters...being allowed to read any manuscript before publication and suggest changes or deletions if she feels Peter or Speedy or Sir Hokus aren't treated right? (I personally thought Neill's treatment of some of the characters was a greater injustice to them than anything I could imagine Scott or Bear doing.) Tyler Jones wrote: <> You're probably right (given that Aunt Em and Uncle Henry certainly don't remember being visited by the Oz people while in Kansas, and that Dorothy still thinks the Scarecrow is King when she returns in OZMA). On the other hand, I think the LITTLE WIZARD stories aren't hard to fit in; nothing in them contradicts Baum's other work. <> At least, not unless you suggest that the MGM movie had such a time discrepancy, with Dorothy and Toto in Oz "for days and days," while on Earth the house was restored (it wasn't in the book) before Aunt Em and Uncle Henry even knew it was gone. (And, as been pointed out, there's even physical evidence...Dorothy's hair has grown several inches in that time.) John N. White wrote: < writes: Ultimate nightmare scenario that let us all hope never gets written: "The Tin Woodman Gets Drafted"! :O :O :O commander of an army in OZMA.)>> Yes, but, as I'm sure he'd announce after the events of his own Oz book, he no longer needs to assume the role now that Ozma already *has* a Tin Soldier under her command. David Hulan wrote: <> Perhaps not that much farther, if any, than you've already pushed ROAD and EMERALD CITY to account for Dorothy's age (and I concur). The events of ZIXI took place (if I recall right) over a couple of years, and Fluff was older than Bud...she could well have been 12 or 13 by the end of the book. So she wouldn't have to wait that much longer to be married (many girls were married at 16 in fairy tales, and in real life, in the sort of society seen in this book). And who's to say Bud was anything like Button-Bright's age? I've seen young children attach themselves to teenagers or adults and think of them as wonderful playmates, and we're never told what *Bud* thought about the whole thing. (Indeed, it's hinted at one point that ZIXI took place much longer ago, since Zixi's age was given as 683 in her book, but the Wizard said she was "thousands of years old." Then again, as Martin Gardner speculated, probably the Wizard was exaggerating or mistaken. Clearly Bud and Fluff did age normally, because a major element of ZIXI was that they had no power to keep Zixi from aging as well.) A fleeting thought...could ZIXI have been inspired in part by Oscar Wilde's "The Picture of Dorian Gray?" If we're going to include SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND on the list...and I'll happily yield to the majority on that...why not include the book that many, myself included, consider one of Baum's best? Chick the Cherub is harder to reconcile, especially with the illustration but even with the description. I suppose s/he could have grown from the androgynous child s/he was in JOHN DOUGH to an equally androgynous teenager (I've seen several: slender boys and flat-chested girls) or adult, but it isn't very likely...so maybe the simplest thing is to say that Baum *was* prognosticating, or speaking from the time of actual writing (some years after you have ROAD taking place, especially in the case of JOHN DOUGH). I remember you've said you think of Chick as definitely a boy, but I'm not so sure...I think s/he at least *might* be a girl, in which case s/he would be a second instance (along with Gureeda) of a girl in the FF wearing pants in Oz. <> Well, Mark Twain himself said as much, though in a statement whose sarcasm is often missed ("I wrote the books exclusively for adults...the idea of either TOM SAWYER or HUCKLEBERRY FINN falling into the hands of a child fills me with horror," or some such). My copy of WIZARD is the Schocken edition edited by Hearn, which also includes a number of critical essays on it and the later Oz books...and, after rereading it for the discussion, I reread some of the articles. Some of them shed an interesting light on the children's books of the day (including recommendations of writers like Dickens, who almost certainly wasn't writing for children even to the limited extent Twain sometimes was). I'll certainly grant that the other books I mentioned, like THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD, weren't around as long as WIZARD and may not have sold as many total copies (though, since they were much smaller and cheaper, I suspect they *sold* more copies in their day and since than a big, relatively expensive book like WIZARD). But what about two other books even older than WIZARD that I inexplicably forgot last time, TREASURE ISLAND and LITTLE WOMEN? I wouldn't be surprised if either or both has outsold WIZARD, and both were children's books written by Americans. (Come to think of it, hasn't it also been claimed that the original Mother Goose came from Boston?) <> Impossible, if one credits the statement Nick makes in WIZARD to the effect that his father had once visited the Emerald City. Since the EC had only been built in the last 20 or so years by the Wizard, that indicates that it hadn't been too many years since he died. <> Actually, DOTWIZ , even more than WIZARD, was a book in which Baum remembered the Munchkins, and only the Munchkins (only *some* Munchkins, at that...even the movie had the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman as normal-sized men) as being midgets. But, even in WIZARD, I never got the impression that people in other parts of Oz were supposed to be unusually short. Some people in the Emerald City were so described, but some weren't (I'm pretty sure the Soldier with the Green Whiskers was consistently described as a tall man), so I'd say the Guardian of the Gates just *happened* to be a short man... just as the Wizard (who wasn't native to Oz) was. <> For the most part, it seems to be magical objects (the Silver Shoes, and the Magic Belt) or exotic animals (as the King of the Winged Monkeys explains to Dorothy) that can't get back to our world. (To be sure, the Gump brings Professor Wogglebug and the Sawhorse, not to mention the magically-alive Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Jack Pumpkinhead, to America in "Queer Visitors from the Marvelous Land of Oz," but that's generally considered noncanonical.) Jewels, on the other hand, do exist in the real world, so there's no reason Dorothy (and Peter) couldn't bring them back. And even the Halidom circlet may have lost its magic in America, though the magic coin in JACK PUMPKINHEAD specifically didn't. (It's not entirely certain the Love Magnet worked here, either.) Steven Teller wrote: <> I don't think that necessarily has any relevance to its quality. I enjoy rereading the work of a number of authors who seemed to be writing for a younger audience than Baum was in WIZARD, like A.A. Milne and Dr. Seuss, a lot more than I enjoyed reading DOT AND TOT. A good children's book, no matter what age of child the book was written for (and Baum said in one of his introductions that he had no particular age in mind...one reason he was usually so vague about Dorothy's age seemed to be that he felt that made it easier for children of any age to identify with her) can appeal to children or adults of any age. The Oz books definitely qualify, as do (at least in my case) most of Milne and Seuss...I'm not so sure about DOT AND TOT. Robin Olderman wrote: <> He sounds like a wonderful man, and I'm going to seek out some of his books. I've seen (and liked) Disney's movie of "The Fox and the Hound," but which movie was based on "The Drifter?" The only Disney film I can think of that might have been based on a book of that title was "Down and Out in Beverly Hills..." a far cry from "The Fox and the Hound," to be sure. But then again, Disney often adapted radically different books by the same author...who would think that "Emil and the Detectives" and "The Parent Trap" were both from books by the same author (Erich Kastner)? Or, even more surprisingly, "Bambi" and "The Shaggy Dog" (both from books by Felix Salten)? Chris Delabone wrote: <> I read only the first book (at the invaluable and sorely-missed Harvard library...I wonder if Gili could check some books out?) and wasn't interested enough to bother with the rest. (If Baum wasn't at his best writing for younger readers in DOT AND TOT, he didn't excel at writing for older ones than WIZARD's audience, either. Yes, I know he wrote the AJN series largely for girls, but I've seen the same claim made for the Oz books.) When and where was Glinda mentioned? I'd think she'd have been a fictional character, since she wouldn't exactly fit into the AJN milieu... And now...THE (WONDERFUL) WIZARD OF OZ! It's always hard to reread an acknowledged classic, especially one with as many sequels as THE WIZARD OF OZ had. Yet in a way it had more in common with Baum's non-Oz fantasies than it did with the later Oz books...just as in QUEEN ZIXI or THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO or THE MASTER KEY, Baum was telling a complete story about original and new characters that (by all accounts) he never intended to use again. As far as I know, this was the only time he, due to incredible demand, changed his mind and did decide to return to his characters. Unless I miss my guess, even in THE SEA FAIRIES (Baum's only other children's fantasy that became a series) Baum meant to continue Trot's adventures by the time he finished the book...although, of course, by that time he was writing more series than just Oz for other markets. The Oz of this book, before Ozma's accession, is definitely a different place than it later became...indeed, as I think David has noted that the Oz we know had more in common with the original Mo (a/k/a Phunnyland) than with the Oz of WIZARD. It's literally full of monstrous animals, most of them as (apparently) mute as Toto...the Kalidahs, the wildcat, the Wicked Witch's wolves, crows and bees, the giant spider, even the Winged Monkeys and (very briefly) the Cowardly Lion before they become Dorothy'd friends. Clearly whatever immortality affects Oz people didn't then (and may never have) applied to animals, since many of them die (underscoring the fact that the Cowardly Lion isn't a genuine coward; since he several times places his life in danger to protect his friends). The only ones who talk, besides the ultimately-friendly Lion and Monkeys, are the Queen of the Field Mice, the leader of the Witch's wolves, and the old crow who befriends the Scarecrow...who, I trust, was *not* one of those he later killed. Indeed, s/he definitely wasn't if we're to believe Volkov, who brought him (or, to Volkov, her) back in later books. Volkov called her Kaggi-Karr; I wonder if Oz fandom as a whole could adopt that name for her (him) as it did those of Gingemma and Bastinida? It's also interesting, given Baum's general lack of romantic subplots (with most of those there were, like those in TIK-TOK and SCARECROW, taken from Oz plots Baum originally developed for other media), to find no less than two in his first Oz book. The story of Gayelette and Quelala is a mere interlude, with neither character actually appearing in the book nor interacting with its major characters. (Is it just me, or does the relationship parallel many unorthodox pairings through history of powerful women and younger but handsome men? I can't even help but be reminded of Madonna and Carlos Leon...) But the doomed romance of Nick Chopper and Nimmee Aimee (if I can be forgiven for using the names not given in this book but in later ones) was rather surprising, involving a major character in the novel who fails to do anything for her until Baum returned to the plot (again, by reader demand) in TIN WOODMAN. (Actually, from the standpoint of this book alone, there was no reason to assume he *wouldn't* have sent for her once he became established as Emperor of the Winkies. By the time Baum returned to him in LAND, he may simply have forgotten he'd left his fiancee behind.) The librarian once quoted by Martin Gardner to the effect that the Oz books "had a cowardly approach to life" might have been thinking mostly of the Cowardly Lion, and his dispatching of the giant spider (even *after* he was given courage by the Wizard) in its sleep. But I have to concur with David Hulan that this was one case where discretion was the better part of valor, especially since none of the other jungle animals was brave enough even to investigate the monster. In retrospect, perhaps the fame of THE WIZARD OF OZ may have been owed as much to the Broadway musical (and, later, to the MGM movie) than to the book itself. But it's still a delightful and solid book, which reportedly kept the decidedly adult Samuel Goldwyn fascinated when one of his readers suggested it for a movie...and the rest was history! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:20:36 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97 David: Actually, there are several instances of copyrighted characters appearing in Oziana, IIRC. For instance, the most recent edition contained "Umbrella Island in Oz," which was about characters from _Speedy_, which will be, if I understand correctly, the last Thompson Oz book to enter public domain. Robin: Benny's transportation may well have been through time as well as space. Tyler: Well, I may have mentioned this before, but in _Pirates_, Ruggedo is described as having been wandering for about five years since _Gnome King_, while Peter is only two years older. This could be construed as proof that time flows differently in Nonestica and the Great Outside World, but I like to believe that Peter is actually thirteen or fourteen in _Pirates_, and that Thompson or her editors changed this for some reason. In fact, I think it was suggested on the Digest that this may have been so that young children could identify with Peter in _Pirates_. Aaron: What are "Wedelons," anyway? John: I liked your theory on short Munchkins. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I'm Metal Monarch, and I'm King of the Nomes, and I'll do as I please and what I please and when I please!" -Ruggedo ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Okay, _As The Clock Strikes Oz_ is $10.00. I have them here now. _The Fairy Circle in Oz_ is expected toward the end of the month and will be $12.00. _The Green Goblins of Oz_ is still in its early stages, but will eventually be $10.00. On the subject of L. Frank Baum's Oz books, I find it hard to completely throw away any of them. I agree that both _Third Book_ and the _Little Wizard Stories_ are lesser efforts, but they do not contradict the main Oz any more than any of his others, and far far less than, say, _Scalawagons_. The few contradictions in it are very minor, and are currently being made the main plotline of a companion piece (or two or three) by Bob Evans. I'll leave it to some other publisher to find an explanation for the problems in _Scalawagons_. (But yes, I am going to want a copy of that one, too!). David: Shhh. I know it's obvious. But you yourself responded to my earlier question of who was Boglodore. I do, after all, have a copy of both _Who's Who in Oz_ and the longer-titled item by Peter Clarke. I like to say things that will get people back into Oz chat. I was very unpleased with that long-running conversation on the star-spangled banner, for example. Asides are important to keep the digest working and to let us authors know what other interests our potential readers have, but I sometimes feel we stray a little too far from Oz. FWIW, my niece is actually a little over 3 now and deteriorating rapidly. Sadly, she was conceived while my sister was using Speed. Not the stuff that Highboy used, either. Though I thought Thompson's words a tad too close to home for comfort. If anyone out there thinks you want to try Speed that came from anyone other than a competent doctor or Herby, please drop on by. I'd like to introduce you to my sister and her child. If you still want to try Speed after that, I'll wash my hands of the whole thing. Someone mentioned... was it Vangelis? I can't spell. The group that did the soundtrack for _Chariots of Fire_, right? I am curious to know what kinmds of music intrigue any of us. I have noticed an Enya trend among many Oz fans. Dave and I seem to share a love for ABBA. I also like old junk like Blondie, Air Supply, I remember I liked the music, but I didn't care for the movie. I was a teenager at the time, and my youthful attitudes led me to think it was a nasty movie whose thesis statement was something like: All Jewish people are unscrupulous losers. If I have the chance to see it now that I'm older, I may see it differently. I'm not Jewish myself, but I do not like to have that kind of attitude thrust at me. I have known many, many Jewish people who were clearly NOT as that movie depicted them. Speaking of which, Gili, I found your page at last! It reminded me that you haven't posted or been in touch in ages. Are you still out there? I really miss the little kitty. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:19:07 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97 OZIANA: Yes, to some extent, we may use RPT's characters. We may not use Eloise's. I don't know about Rachel's...I haven't ever asked her, but I guess I should. Gee, David, I wish I'd known it was not your intention to be published. Fred is the one who suggested that I use the Story Circle as a source for possible OZIANA material.I thought he'd made it clear to the Circle. Obviously, he didn't. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:56:15 -0800 From: serenadb@sos.net (Serena DuBois) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-14-97 Availability of Santa Claus in Dover edition: Yes it's still out there and several others as well. I purchased it just before last Christmas. Our family has the complete FF in hard back plus every non OZ Baum book my mother (an inveterate collector who worked in a 2nd hand bookstore in Berkeley in the 40's) could get her hands on including Father Goose his book, American Fairy Tales, Yew, Sea Fairies (I always liked it!), Dot and this day whenever I can't find something assume it is piled up with all the other lost whatever-it-ises (!!) in Merryland), Santa Claus, Who's Who etc. BUT they all got boxed up and are in the back of my sister's storage since we sold the family house where they (the books) lived. I have been subsisting on my father's paperback reprints of the Baum/Thompson books and a few other non Oz books, and *they* ended abruptly before all were reprinted much to our disgust. Using that division mentioned recently of Collectors vs Readers, I and most of our family are Readers. All of our family books show it including the Oz books, being quite raggedy and well thumbed, and in some cases re-bound. I would gladly complete the set in paperback if only to stop the inevitable "Who gets the Oz book collection?" wrangle that is happening. My brother took another tack and has been purchasing the series in hardback reprints for his grandson whose mother wanted to borrow the family Oz jewels to read to him and set off a ruction (She lives in Connecticut and I wasn't about to trust them to the US snail!). I guess my questions rising out of this introductory ramble are "Has anyone republished or is anyone going to republish the latter RPT books and JRN and JS books in paper or HB? I prefer paper as it is cheaper, and since I am of limited resources, I want all I can get for my buck. Having a choice I would vote for DOVER paper because they are a first class outfit who makes books designed to last! I am also interested in the new books on Oz that you have been talking about. How does one get them? I was a member of the IWoZ in the 60's and early 70's and got several of their publications. Do I have to rejoin to purchase others spoken of here or are there other paths as well? Nothing against rejoining the IWoZ except lack of extra funds at present! This is a long enough intro message. My name is Serena DuBois. I was born in Berkeley California and grew up in Roseville, CA, went to college at UC at Davis then moved to SF where I lived for 25 years till 1992. I am now living in Rural Skagit County, Washington. My last reread of the Oz books was last summer and fall when I got my hands on those paperbacks of my father. I am looking forward to the discussion of the books in the weeks to come. It will no doubt prompt another reread (as far as I can go...). Serena ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:11:31 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-16-97 Nathan: Bruce Coville is a very popular author of children's books, so I'm not surprised that your brother would have read some of them. I've known him for over 20 years, since before he sold his first story, and he's used my name (with variations) in several of his books, though "Hoo-Lan" in MY TEACHER GLOWS IN THE DARK (and MY TEACHER FLUNKED THE PLANET) was the most important character he did it with. Danny: No, Bruce Coville isn't as big an Oz fan as I am. He liked Oz well enough as a kid, but has no interest in writing new Oz fiction himself. He was, incidentally, the one who encouraged me to send GLASS CAT (which I'd written as a serial for private circulation - he was one of the ones who got it) to BoW to see if they'd publish it. He also keeps at me to write some children's books set in a universe of my own creation rather than Oz - which, as soon as I finish my Centennial Contest entry, I intend to do. Tyler: I don't think IWOC is "one of the few non-profits that does NOT rake in huge piles of cash" - I don't think most non-profits rake in huge piles of cash. Some, to be sure (especially right-wing think tanks...), but not most. IWOC is much more typical of a non-profit than, say, the Red Cross or the Rockefeller Foundation. John W.: It seems unlikely that Dorothy's aging was halted when she went to Oz in WIZARD; the Wizard's aging wasn't halted while he was in Oz, so it seems pretty clear that as a minimum, the aging of mortals wasn't stopped against their wills before Ozma's accession. (Whether Ozites' aging stopped completely, happened only when they willed it, or stopped only when they willed it is one of those areas where the books seem ambiguous.) And while it's true that we don't -know- that Dorothy's lack of aging in Kansas wasn't noticed, Uncle Henry and Aunt Em do a fair amount of soul-searching about Dorothy in EC, and if she were seriously physically retarded you'd think that would have been on their minds. And that Baum would have mentioned it too. Joyce: Button-Bright is described in ROAD as seeming two or three years younger than Dorothy, which according to most chronologies would make him appear somewhere around 7-8. I think that already implies that he must have been bigger than normal for his age, because everything else about him - his conversation, his emotional reactions to things - indicates an age around 4. If he were barely 3 at the time of ROAD then I don't think he could have talked even as well as he did. A sentence like, "Papa always said I was bright as a button, so Mama calls me Button-Bright," is pretty sophisticated for three. Not impossible for a really bright kid, but unlikely. Certainly if he looked 7-8 when he was really 4, even, it would explain why Dorothy and Shaggy and others thought he was rather stupid. In SKY ISLAND he's described as being "not quite as big" as Trot; if we figure that SCARECROW took place a year after SKY ISLAND and Trot was ten then, we could assume Button-Bright was around 8 for SKY ISLAND (which is borne out by his behavior - he surely wasn't much younger than that) and 9 when he reached Oz. Good point about Ozma bringing Dorothy back for her next birthday party if there'd been a full year between ROAD and EC. Of course, we don't -know- that she didn't; it's never mentioned in the FF, but a large number of the non-FF books in the HACC do bring Dorothy back to Oz during that interval for one reason or another. (In fact, if you accept them all, Dorothy probably spent more time in Oz than in Kansas between those two books...) On a strictly FF basis, though, I think you're right that EC should take place before August of the year after ROAD. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:30:40 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 2/15 Digest, Jeremy Steadman asks <... are "Dianetics" anything like "diaretics"? Yes, both purge you of something. Diuretics purge your fluids; Dianetics purge your engrams and money. In the same issue Jeremy paraphrases John White, I am a computer programmer. I know programs. Some of my best friends are computer programs. A computer program is nothing like bureaucracy! :-) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:31:35 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Oz JOdel@aol.com writes: > Not having read Sky Island, I do not know what age Button > Bright is described as being there. ... > Since I rather like the idea that there may have been more time > passing in Oz between the arrivals of Dorothy, Betsy and Trot, the > problem represented by Button Bright is an unwelcome one. But one > can't always have what one wants, so adjust. One thing that happens in SKY ISLAND is that Trot and Button Bright visit the Blues, and we are told that anyone visiting the Blues will live 600 years. This brings up the possibility that Trot and Button Bright essentially stopped aging after that visit. Thus, many years could have passed between SKY ISLAND and SCARECROW. It would also solve the puzzle of why Trot and Button Bright were so willing to abandon their former lives and stay in Oz. By the time of SCARECROW they would be getting a lot of harassment for not growing up properly, and they would be chronologically old enough to make the decision to leave home for a better life. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > If Ozma could form an army (and draft the Tin Man into it -- given his > revulsion for even stepping on a bug I can't believe he volunteered) for > the purpose of liberating the Royal Family of Ev, why did she have such > a problem with forming an army to protect her *OWN* country in _Emerald > City_??? Ozma saw how effective an army of Ozites was in OZMA, so it is no wonder that she didn't want to bother forming one in E.CITY. Ozma was entirely too casual about the impending enslavement of herself and her people by the evil ones that were planning to destroy Oz. Contrast that with how she wept and scolded when imprisoned by a far less evil villain in LOST PRINCESS. I also find the story behind the Forbidden Fountain hard to believe, and the coincidence of it being near the end of the tunnel seems just a little too convenient. MOPPeT is that Glinda read of the invasion in her record book, and made plans with Ozma to halt the invasion. Glinda placed the Forbidden Fountain next to the end of the tunnel, and they planned to fill the tunnel with dust after the evil armies began their march. Ozma decided not to tell everyone about the plan (as blabbing critical military secrets to people who don't need to know them is generally not a good idea) so she gave a misleading account of the origin of the Forbidden Fountain (telling no lies, but leading Dorothy to believe the story that she reported to Baum). Ozma was greatly amused that the Scarecrow suggested to her the very thing that she had been planning, (but she still wanted to keep it a secret). On another note, AAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!! The villainous line-eater struck my last post! I have included the mutilated section below -- not because it is in any way important or interesting, but because I am curious to see if the line eater has a deterministic appetite. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Ultimate nightmare scenario that let us all hope never gets written: > "The Tin Woodman Gets Drafted"! :O :O :O Too late! Its already been written! (The Tin Woodman was drafted and made commander of an army in OZMA.) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 _Down and Out in Beverly Hills_ was a Paul Mazursky remake of Jean Renoir's _Boudou sauve des eaux/Boudu Saved from Drowning_. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:30:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 If the copyright is in the clubbs name, than what is the difference, indeed? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 David Hulan: Didn't Peter bring a bag of pearls with him at the end of _Pirates_? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 I don't think my novel is P.C. enough for Books of Wonder, with all their censorship of Baum. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 A year or two ago I saw the list of bestselling children's books, which had 100 or so titles, _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ not among them. However, Brian Jacques's _Redwall_ series and Lewis's _Narnia_ were included. As much as I enjoy the Narnia bgook, and their influence on my novel, particularly _The Silver Chair_ is significant, I fail to see why so many critics consider them better-written than the Oz books, with all their parenthetic by-the-way approach that fails to connect the reader to the story. He does this less as the series progresses, but I still have not read the last three (in the order they were written; that renumbering recently was pretty stupid.) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:33:33 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Scott: Actually, I think that _Royal Book_ either entered or will enter public domain this year. _Kabumpo_ will probably enter PD next year, and the process will continue up through _Speedy_. Tyler: I think that "Nome" with either spelling could mean "one who knows." It would come from the same root as words like "gnostic." I think that Button-Bright is described as being younger than Trot in _Scarecrow_. Rich: Maybe the Guardian of the Gates grew up in the part of the Munchkin Country where Dorothy's house landed. This would explain his shortness. As for the Soldier, we know his weight (125 pounds in _Wonder City_), and are never given an exact figure for his height, but I believe that he has been described as tall. Actually, the Tin Woodman might be even taller than the Soldier, since, in _Ozoplaning_, when the party of the Tin Man, the Soldier, and Jellia met the Stratovanians, these people were described as being "taller than even the Tin Woodman." (I don't remember the exact line.) Chris: I enjoy a variety of music, but my favorites are probably humorous music (like "Weird Al" Yankovic and Tom Lehrer), Simon and Garfunkel, and the Beatles. At least, those are the albums I have (only one Tom Lehrer so far, but I'm hoping to obtain the others). Serena: Both IWOC and Books of Wonder have published post-Baum Oz books. I believe that, through these two organizations, all of the Famous Forty except for _Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_ can be obtained. BoW also publishes original Oz books. Buckethead Enterprises, which is run by Digest member Chris Dulabone, also publishes new Oz books. John: I'm not sure if the 600 year lifespan pertains to all of those who have been to the Blue Country, or just those who are currently living in the Blue Country. In fact, I believe that one of the Blueskins (Ghip-Ghisizzle?) was afraid of the Fog Bank because anyone leaving the Blue Country would be able to die at any time. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu http://www.dragonfire.net/~VoVat/home.html Kinglet: "Now, by the toga of Samson-by the way, Nebbie, did Samson wear a toga?" Nebbie: "He wore several, your Majesty!" Kinglet: "Then, by the several togas of Samson, Bebe Celeste, how dare you come before me two ounces shy?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:10:50 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 re: Queen Ann. Videotape was invented in 1956, and did not go into general industrial use until 1960, with the Kennedy/Nixon debate and _The Shirley Temple Show_. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:43:07 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Scott H.: Ah, my linguistic intuition was correct, then! Not that I recognized anything as specifically Turkish, because I don't know any Turkish, but there are so few languages where I think I wouldn't recognize at least the language family that Turkish seemed likely. (One on-topic thing I do know about Turkish, from having known a few Turks - "Oz-" is a fairly common prefix in Turkish surnames. Three of the ones I've known were named Ozher, Ozhan, and Ozdes. I don't know the significance of the prefix, though. Anybody here know Turkish?) According to my understanding KABUMPO IN OZ doesn't go PD until next year, but I'll let someone like Peter Hanff answer that definitively. Kabumpo, the character, can be used because SILVER PRINCESS, where he appears, is PD. But associated characters who only appear in KABUMPO, LOST KING, or PURPLE PRINCE couldn't be, or references to events in those books. QUEEN ANN specifically says that it takes place 40 years after Ozma's coronation, which puts it sometime in the 1940s, depending on what date you choose for LAND. The reference to a VCR is in the narration, not the dialog, and we know that the book was -written- in the late '80s or early '90s. (Since Eric isn't around any more we can't ask the best source.) The quote is something like "If you or I had been there, we might have wondered if that was what the fast forward of a VCR was like," so that the VCR is clearly not intended to be something that the characters would have known about. anthony: the consensus has been that the films and plays are not to be considered to reflect ozian history Tyler: One friend of mine is working on a story (or has told me about a story she plans to work on, anyhow) in which Locasta, Glinda, and Gayelette are sisters. Knowing the various creaks that have developed in my physique over the years, I'd expect that the Wizard would have de-aged his body some if he could, though perhaps not his appearance - if he could do the one without the other. Gili: Welcome back! Sorry to hear about your mother's kidney stone; I just heard from my brother that he's been suffering with one for the past three weeks, so I have sympathy. Rich: The MGM movie isn't canonical. Besides, in the movie the house wasn't really moved, as I understand it - Dorothy was knocked out by a swinging shutter, and the rest was all a dream. ZIXI took place over a matter of months, but except for the epilogue I don't think it stretched over years, though I haven't checked. And while it's quite true that little kids will attach themselves to much older ones, there's a strong implication that Bud isn't anything like a teen-ager in ROAD. "...little King Bud was so frank and boyish..." sounds like someone no older than Dorothy to me. As for Zixi's age, I think we have to say that the Wizard was either exaggerating or was misinformed when he said she'd lived thousands of years. There clearly wasn't -that- much time between ZIXI and ROAD. Interesting speculation whether Baum was familiar with "The Picture of Dorian Gray". It's of course conceivable that Chick was a girl - Baum certainly intended to keep the character ambiguous - but Chick's personality seems to me to resemble Baum's boys, like Tip, Button-Bright, Ojo, and Woot, more than his girls. (Perhaps most of all he resembles Bud, or Rob in MASTER KEY.) Umm...TREASURE ISLAND wasn't by an American author, or at least Stevenson is generally thought of as a Scot, though he lived in America for a while. I don't think he ever took US citizenship, though. I'm not sure where he was living when he wrote TI; if nobody on the Digest knows offhand I can look it up. You're right; I'd forgotten the reference to Nick's father's visit to the EC. That pretty definitely puts his (presumably natural) death within a couple of decades of the time of WIZARD. I think it's pretty certain that the Love Magnet worked in the US - otherwise, how would the Shaggy Man have known what it did? And the story he tells about the girl in Butterfield, after he'd bathed in the Truth Pond, also indicates that it worked here. Nathan: Just about everything Peter does in PIRATES is consistent with his being a teen-ager, except for the reference to his being 11. Including (as I think has been mentioned before) his reference to being a Scout, which wouldn't have been open to anyone under 12 at that time. Chris D.: What kinds of music do I like? It's off the Oz topic again, but this time you brought it up... I like old (pre-1970 or so) musicals, especially Cole Porter, Rodgers & Hart, and Noel Coward; most jazz, especially with Brazilian elements; most classical, especially 18th century (and most especially Mozart) and late 19th-early 20th century; Gilbert & Sullivan; and very little rock and/or folk. (Although some of my favorites in the classical line are compositions by people like Holst, Vaughan Williams, and Butterworth based on folk themes.) Robin: Sorry if I gave the wrong impression - it's not that I had the least objection to being published in OZIANA; in fact, I was delighted. It's just that I hadn't submitted it with the idea that it might be published, so I paid no attention to things like the use of copyright characters, which I might have if I'd known what I was doing. (For that matter, I also might have revised and edited it a little more carefully before sending it in; after reading the published version I know there were things I could have improved if I'd had the chance.) But if Fred ever said anything about using Story Circle material in OZIANA, it didn't get to me. Of course, Fred and I haven't had the smoothest of relationships... Serena: Books of Wonder has the last four Thompsons, the two Snows, WONDER CITY, and MERRY-GO-ROUND all available in PB at $12.95 each, as well as the other two Neills in hardcover. (They also have SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND in PB, same price.) These are all probably to be found at Borders if you can conveniently get to a Borders (I know they have at least one store in Seattle, probably more; there might even be one in Bellingham, which looks as if it might be a little closer to you). If not, they can be ordered direct from BoW at 800-345-6665, but then you have to pay S&H (though that might be less expensive than driving into Seattle if you don't have occasion to go there for other reasons anyhow). The IWOC has some of these available as well, and also has SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, and HIDDEN VALLEY available in very nice hardcover editions, the first two with color plates. I'm not sure about the PB availability of any of those. And they have the Del Rey PB editions of the Thompsons through JACK PUMPKINHEAD. I don't know if you have to be a member of the IWOC to order from them or if they'll take a book order from anyone. John W.: Interesting speculation on Ozma's casual attitude toward being invaded in EC. Not sure I believe it - it doesn't seem consistent with Ozma's character to let her friends, especially Dorothy, suffer through a sleepless night when she could have said, "Don't worry about it; Glinda and I have worked out a way to save us all." But it will be interesting to discuss it in more detail when we get around to EC in a few months. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:09:08 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Anthony: I watch Cloak and Scarecrow without any sound (from Timeless Video) so no complaining. I found the score for Patchwork Girl, which I can get from Wisconsin through Interlibrary loan. I doubt if anyone has recorded it. Too bad teaching myself the piano didn't make me a good piano player. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:57:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Chris D.: Vangelis is the stage name of Greek new age composer Evangelos Papathannisou. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:17:13 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digestion (sorry) Hi everybody! After a weekend of being sick with my chronic Crohn's Disease, it's nice to be well enough to return to the computer lab and catch up on missed Digests. So here goes: I'm glad to hear that the Nome King/Gnome King is no longer a gnome of contention. After all, America spells lots of things differently from England--nomes may be no exception. David Hulan: EMERALD RING didn't seem all that long to me, either (not after I edited it, at least); I'm going on Chris' comments on the subject. Thank you for your well-put counter to a certain political argument I see too much of living in a Republican city and going to a college with a pro-Republican student body. Concerning the Love Magnet in our world (dimension, whatever): I guess that's why every February 14th, we celebrate its existence. Seriously, perhaps the magnet sort of "dissolved", becoming a small part of everything (especially on the above day). Nathan: Concerning Dorothy's shoes, see the above comment about the magnet. The same thing could have happened--that's the magic of life for you. Tyler: Re Oz vs Narnia: I've long thought there was a similarity there--Lewis having gotten his ideas from Oz or something of the sort. The fact that Baum didn't "comment extensively" on the time difference might have been because it wasn't as important to him or to Oz--it still might exist. (And yes, I did have Narnia in the back of my mind when I made my suggestions.) Dave H.: Re the Tin Woodman & being drafted--true, he does have a "revulsion for even stepping on a bug" and so forth; however, for a cause such as liberating a country (even if it isn't Oz) I think he might have a change of stance. Re LITTLE WIZ STORIES & THIRD BOOK: I'm afraid I have to agree with Chris here that we can't simply discount them because they don't fit in with the rest of the series. We should discuss them, if after all Baum's other books (including SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND), because he did, after all, write them, possibly as an introduction to the main series to younger folks. That's all for today, Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:27:18 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: Actually, _Royal Book_ went Public this year. What happens is that the FF are copyrighted for 75 years after publication, and that year is the last year that it is copyrighted. _Royal Book_ was published in 1921, so it remains copyrighted all through the year 1921 + 75 = 1996. IN 1997, it went public. Therefore, _Kabumpo_ goes public in 1998 and so on. In this case, I am going by what David Hulan told me. Scott again: That wuote from EC indicates that by the time of Ozma's ascension, while people could not die from natural causes such as old age or illness, they could still be destroyed. IN fact, the Wizard says something like this somewhere in Baum. Gili: Your story is interesting. I was under the assumption that women in the Israeli army went into combat as often as the men. Rich: The Little Wizard stories easily fit in with Baum's 14 novels, hence they are in the HACC. Nathan: THe evidence from _Pirates_ does indicate that time flows differently, but all kinds of complications would arise from that (even if we assumed a constant rate of 2.5 to 1), so it is easier to simply assume that RPT kept Peter young (perhaps by some temporary magic that we do not witness) in order that children would continue to identify him. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:38:28 -0500 (EST) From: "John N. White" Subject: Oz Well, the line-eater didn't eat the line in the last digest that it had eaten in the previous one, so I guess it's not the contents of the line that wets the line-eater's appetite. sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu writes: > Didn't Kabumpo go public domain this year? I was under the impression that Kabumpo went public domain decades ago, since the last 4 Thompson books never had their copyrights renewed -- including SILVER PRINCESS, where Kabumpo appears. DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > It seems unlikely that Dorothy's aging was halted when she went to Oz in > WIZARD; the Wizard's aging wasn't halted while he was in Oz, The Enchantment seemed to be just getting going about the time Dorothy arrived, and the Wizard had already aged by then. In fact, Lurline and her band may have been hanging around at that time, although they didn't show themselves. Dorothy's house could not have survived the fall without some magical assistance, and its falling on one of the two worst wicked witches is just too improbable -- unless someone arranged for it to do so. > (Whether Ozites' aging stopped completely, happened only when they > willed it, or stopped only when they willed it is one of those areas > where the books seem ambiguous.) The books don't seem ambiguous to me. Baum clearly states that all aging had stopped. Period. It is only later that the Ozites discover that they can restart it if they want. > And while it's true that we don't -know- that Dorothy's lack of aging in > Kansas wasn't noticed, Uncle Henry and Aunt Em do a fair amount of > soul-searching about Dorothy in EC, and if she were seriously physically > retarded you'd think that would have been on their minds. It may have been on their minds, but they may not have mentioned it to Dorothy to avoid hurting her feelings and making her feel inadequate, and Dorothy was Baum's informant. > And that Baum would have mentioned it too. He did. He wasn't so blunt as to call her "seriously physically retarded", but he did say things like Dorothy "seemed just the same sweet little girl she had been when first she came to this delightful fairyland". Baum obviously knew how to say these things diplomatically. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TWO DAYS OZ GROWLS WOZ - There has been so much discussion of Dorothy's age. Looking at p.11 (on the porch behind Uncle Henry) and p.28 (surrounded by Munchkins) of my edition she could be as old as 8 in the former and as young as 4 in the latter. I guess we will just have to blame Denslow for this confusion. Does anyone know if the publisher let Baum approve the drawings for his book. I'm told most modern authors don't get that courtesy. I noticed on p. 41 that the Yellow Brick Road is in bad shape. The Munchkins aren't paying their taxes? Is there an explanation for this in the FF? I noticed on p.114 that the children were buying things with green pennies. Eric had a whole article on means of exchange in Oz, in the Bugle recently. p. 217 It is interesting that Baum chose to have the Lion's tail destroy a church. It makes me wonder how Baum felt about churches. Speaking of destruction, I am afraid the thing I noticed most in the book, not having read it for 30 years, was the unrelenting slaughter. To enumerate: p. 21 One Witch (East), crushed to death - by house p. 72 Two Kalidahs, smashed on rocks - by Woodman p. 92 One wildcat, hacked to death - by Woodman p. 136 40 Wolves, likewise - by Woodman p. 138 40 Crows, necks broken - by Scarecrow p. 139 One swarm bees, stingers broken - by Woodman p. 150 One Witch (West), disolved - by Dorothy p. 221 One giant spider, decapitated - by Lion It is clear from the above that the Woodman is the real killing machine of the quartet, but all of them are involved in the slaughter. This book certainly borrows from the tradition of grim and Grimm fairy tales in this regard. And this from someone who is so "kind and soft-hearted" he couldn't handle military school? This is another demonstration of someone's dark side, where a person expresses sublimated agression in some socially acceptable way, such as in a fantasy. It is also interesting to note that our "kind and soft-hearted" author chose violence as a way of solving his characters problems. I have the feeling that he chose other means in later books. On to the Digests - Melody - Hmmm. What a weapon! If yelling at someone would give them a heart attack, no one would ever survive boot camp. A few of us might not have survived grade/high school either. Ryman - British, has received awards for some of his books. I think his first publication was in 1984. He is in "Faces of Fantasy," on p. 192 if you want to look him in the eye. He didn't say anything interesting there. Just fussed about being photographed. I'll be glad to help you boil him in oil. ;) David - Speaking of raking in cash there is the DNC. We'll deal with the other issue later. Get ready....... Busily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:44:35 -0500 (EST) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Actually, it isn't Oz, but I want everyone to know about this. I just signed on, heard the usual "You've got mail" voice, and when I looked to see it, I had 221 copies of a letter called NUTHIN from someone named JAycock1. However, I also got three E-mails from someone named Wigem, who got a similar batch of junk. Problem: Wigem's claimed to have come from me! I forwarded a copy of the gibberish to Guide Pager with this information. But what if JAycock1 is an innocent bystander, like myself, whose name is somehow being used by someone else to send bulk junkmail to several people? It had a list of about a dozen names that this was being sent to (including Wigem). As I know very few people online, I have to assume that these are not people I've actually known. What can I do about it? AAARRRGGGHHH! On the Ozzy subjects: yesterday I was asking about what music people here consider Ozzy. I got cut off while listing some stuff in the middle and I'm sure you noticed the break. I think I named ABBA, Blondie, and Air Supply. I don't know many recent bands at all. I'm really not into much of the current stuff, and what I like tends to be as un-modern as it can get. Loreena MacKennitt (probably misspelled) is the only current one (other than Enya, of course) to come to mind. I have some other recent stuff (most noteably an Elton John that is NOT nice like the Lion King and a soundtrack of The Cable Guy that I'd love to trade with an Oz fan who would appreciate them. Oz fans get first dibs, but if I don't have any takers I'll offer them elsewhere). So, what other music conjures Ozzy images for anyone? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:39:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Wedelons of Oz Empire 1) Nathan, 'wedelon' is a term I invented for a type of fairy with an enormous nose, translating from the fairy language Dan-Rur as "one characterized by a nose". There is an English term for wedelons, but I can never remember it. There is a wedelon in my (unfinished) _A Refugee from Oz_ all because of a dream. I once dreamed that I was in a bookstore, and I picked up an Oz encyclopedia in which I saw articles on two things, one being a culture which I hope to eventually work into one of the later books in Lurline's Machine, and one a character, whom I have subsequently named Prasmthrasm, whose physical form is, to say the least, bizarre. Barry didn't want Prasmthrasm in _Refugee_, but we were able to strike a compromise, namely he got to put in his own freakish creature: Snortar the Wedelon. 2) Concerning item 1, I have had a total of four dreams concerning Oz which I remember, two of which provided me with useful material. (Besides the previously mentioned dream, from another I got the Queasy and Hiergargo's Island.) Out of curiousity, has anyone else on the Digest in writing, ozzy or otherwise, taken inspiration from dreams? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:51:13 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Ozzy Digest -- Looking for... Sender: BARLOW NATE I was wondering if anyone on here could help me find this item, which I'm trying to find for a gift. I'm looking for the soundtrack to the movie version of The Wiz. If anyone has an extra copy or knows where they can find me one, I'd greatly appreciate it. BTW, not to open any old discussions, I just finished _Wicked_, and enjoyed it immensely. Peace, Nate ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Reviews of Buckethead Oz Books I've recently read quite a number of Buckethead books, and thought I'd post the reviews separately from my regular comments on the Ozzy Digest so people who aren't interested can skip them easily. (I'm also sending them directly to Tyler for his Web page.) One general comment - the zero-to-five star rating system doesn't give room for much in the way of fine gradations, even with half-star increments. On this rating system, I'd give the entire FF five stars except for the first two Neills, and they'd get four, even though I scaled them from A+ to D- when measured against one another. THE FLYING BUS IN OZ, by Ruth Morris, illustrated by Corinne Morris. This is a delightful book in which a family of Canadian children and their doll, along with a school bus and its driver, visit Oz and have interesting adventures. The author has captured the feeling of Oz very well, and she writes good, smooth, readable prose. There are no really wicked characters - the Noyzy Boyz, who serve as antagonists, are more thoughtless than malefic - and the family relationships among the children are very well developed. The illustrations were done by the author's ten-year-old daughter, and look it, but they have considerable childish charm and verve. The best Buckethead book that I've read so far, except for DISENCHANTED PRINCESS. Four and a half stars. THE CASE OF THE FRAMED FAIRY OF OZ, by Gil Joel (with Chris Dulabone) Perry Mason is brought to Oz, along with Della Street and Paul Drake, to defend Ozma against a charge of practicing witchcraft. This is a very well-done pastiche of a Perry Mason novelette; Joel actually does quite a good job of capturing the speech patterns of Perry, Della, and Paul from the books. Since he obviously is familiar with the books, it's surprising that he places Mason's office in New York; it's in Los Angeles, and I don't believe Mason himself ever crossed the Mississippi in the books. (I'm not sure about the TV program.) Still, that's a minor quibble; the story is well-done, and the ending is a twist as surprising as the climaxes of the mysteries. The Ozzy content is adequate, though I'd characterize this as much more a Perry Mason mystery set in Oz than an Oz book featuring Perry Mason. Four stars. RED REERA THE YOOKOOHOO AND THE ENCHANTED EASTER EGGS OF OZ, by Richard G. Quill, illustrated by A.E. Mouse. Like Scraps' birthday poem from MAGIC, this is a case where the title is almost as long as the text. Not really, but this is the length of a fairly short short story, not a book. The prose is good, and the illustrations are excellent - "Mouse" is Buckethead's best illustrator other than Grandy, at least of the books I've seen - but there's nothing much to the story. Three stars. THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ, by Chris Dulabone, illustrated by Melody Grandy. This is a pretty good, if rather episodic, story that has very little to do with Oz; about the only connection is the presence in the story of Eureka, though there doesn't seem to be much similarity between the character in this book and the one in DOTWIZ (or in OZMAPOLITAN). There's a great deal of time-traveling that can be confusing at times, and the magic doesn't seem to follow any logic at all. Still, the story moves along well, the prose is adequate, and the illustrations are excellent. Three and a half stars. THE EMERALD RING OF OZ, by Jeremy Steadman, illustrated by Chris Dulabone. This book has a very Ozzy plot line, and the prose is quite decent for someone who was at most in his mid-teens when he wrote it, though it creaks a little in places. There's a suitably nasty villain in a witch called Kiex, a mortal boy who gets to Oz by an unaccountable means, and lots of our old friends - especially the mortal children - having adventures together and singly. As for the illustrations, Dulabone writes better than he draws, although he draws better than I can. (On the other hand, I've never dared to illustrate a book...) Three and a half stars. PEGASUS IN OZ, by Annie Brzozowski, illustrated by Steve Burt The author was at most 13 when she wrote this, and unfortunately, it shows. The plot is amusing and quite Ozzy, and we meet some interesting new characters, but there are far too many amazing coincidences, and the prose is probably best described as jerky. I think Brzozowski shows a great deal of potential as an Oz writer - her imagination is excellent - but she needs more practice at putting words on the page so they read smoothly, and in pacing. The illustrations are a little crude, but I actually found them quite charming. The familiar characters don't resemble any traditional versions - Ozma reminds me more of Smurfette than of Neill's version - but they're fun. Two and a half stars. TIME TRAVELING IN OZ, by Ryan Gannaway, illustrated by Marcus Mebes. This book is actually published by Ozian Seahorse Press rather than Buckethead, but I ordered it through Buckethead and so I'm reviewing it here. It has a complicated plot that includes a trip back to the time of LOST PRINCESS, though the logic of it all is rather far-fetched. It purports to give the origin of the Magic Belt, although KALIKO IN OZ gave a completely different story. The book is Ozzy enough, but Gannaway sometimes comes up with sentences that sound as if they were intended for entries in the Bulwer-Lytton write-alike contest. (For instance, one sentence on page 2 ran 110 words. And it wasn't the only one of comparable length.) The illustrations are only fair; Mebes did much better ones for LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ. (Betsy Bobbin looks as if she were modeled on Barbra Streisand; I guess that's OK, but it's wildly at variance with my mental image of her.) Three stars. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:37:40 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Someone broke into my University's computer and caused a mess. I did not get to see any postings until today. I shall just answer the most recent, unless I see something irresistable on one of the earlier ones. > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > > Steven: Isn't Worra a character from the Volkov novels, though, even if > the monkeys are not enchanted people, I'm sure I heard that name before. I must confess I do not remember the name. You can chech TALES OF MAGIC LAND > Didn't Kabumpo go public domain this year? Ralph Griffith and > Stuart Kerr mentioned Kabumpo locations in the lastest issue of _Oz_, > which ought to confirm that Kabumpo can be used without royalty. You may do so at you own risk. BTW mentioning a character is not the same as using it. There is, also, such a thing as courtesy. > In Alex Cox's film, _Repo Man_, there is a parody of dianetics called > "diuretics." > I believe there was a much earlier parody of the same name in HOPPALONG FREUD or HOPPALONG FREUD RIDES AGAIN (I will have to check this at home). > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > > well i finally finished watching baums silent oz movies and i must say i > think they hold up well though the soudntrack is annoying at times It would be wonderful if someone would dig up the original Louis Gottchalk scores and record them. > > ====================================================================== > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Hi! Welcome back > Back after a crazy week which included auditions and casting for a play > I will be directing this semester, So, what play will you be directing? The 1902 WIZARD OF OZ? > From: RMorris306@aol.com > > > I'm still confused. You indicated Maryott *was* willing to sell the > rights to the IWOOC and/or the McGraws, but wouldn't be willing to sell them > to, say, Scott or Bear.What's the distinction? Part of the distinction is Fred Meyer, who has kept a close personal and professional contact with Dorothy Maryott. He, I am sure, was able to persuade Dotty that no harm was being done. Up to now IWoc has declined to publish (except in OZIANA which is a very special case) any fiction that was not written by OZMOPOLITAN which was written by MERRY-GO-=ROUND illustrator Dick Martin. > Was it that the McGraws were "official" Oz writers (having written an FF book) and hence deserved more > courtesy? Yes > (I personally thought Neill's treatment of some of the > characters was a greater injustice to them than anything I could imagine > Scott or Bear doing.) Neill's work was done for Reilly and Lee, who held all the copyrights. BTW: your imagination is much weaker than mine. > < too. >> > > I read only the first book (at the invaluable and sorely-missed Harvard > library...I wonder if Gili could check some books out?) and wasn't interested > enough to bother with the rest. Actually the first AUNT JANE'S NEICES book is the best of the lot. But it suffers from incredible coincidences that mar almost all of Baum's adolescent and adult fiction. > When and where was Glinda mentioned? I'd think she'd have been a fictional > character, > since she wouldn't exactly fit into the AJN milieu... > Her goodness is mentioned in passing as a quality that some character possesses. > And now...THE (WONDERFUL) WIZARD OF OZ! > the old crow who befriends the > Scarecrow...who, I trust, was *not* one of those he later killed. Certainly not, it was a Munchkin crow, not a Winkie one. > Indeed, s/he definitely wasn't if we're to believe Volkov, who brought him > (or, to > Volkov, her) back in later books. Volkov called her Kaggi-Karr; I wonder if > Oz fandom as a whole could adopt that name for her (him) as it did those of > Gingemma and Bastinida? I am not sure we have. I, for one, only use those names for Volkov's characters, never for Baum's. > But the doomed romance of Nick Chopper and Nimmee Aimee (if I can be > forgiven for using the names not given in this book but in later ones) was > rather surprising, involving a major character in the novel who fails to do > anything for her until Baum returned to the plot (again, by reader demand) in > TIN WOODMAN. (Actually, from the standpoint of this book alone, there was no > reason to assume he *wouldn't* have sent for her once he became established > as Emperor of the Winkies. By the time Baum returned to him in LAND, he may > simply have forgotten he'd left his fiancee behind.) He certainly does not mention that possibility in WWOO. > In retrospect, perhaps the fame of THE WIZARD OF OZ may have been owed > as much to the Broadway musical (and, later, to the MGM movie) than to the > book itself. > > Rich Morrissey The initial success of the book preceeded the musical version, and it was a classic before the movie. Certainly much of its fame in the 1990s comes from the 1939 movie. It is impossible to know what the fate of the book would have been had the movie not come out. > Actually, there are several instances of copyrighted characters appearing in > Oziana, IIRC. Oziana is a special case. Perhaps Robin will explain the criteria for appearance in that publication. > > From: OzBucket@aol.com > > On the subject of L. Frank Baum's Oz books, I find it hard to completely > throw away any of them. That is a good idea, but if you do decide to throw any away, throw them my way. > I like to say things that will get people back into Oz chat. Aha! > I am curious to know what kinmds of music intrigue any of us. I have noticed an Enya trend among many Oz fans. I am a big Gilbert and Sullivan fan (I also like other operetta and opera) > I didn't care for the movie [Chariots of Fire]. You must have seen a very different movie than I did. I liked it intensely. Harold Abrahams was anything but a loser. Nor was he unscrupulous. He was a man out to prove himself in the face of the entrenched anti-semitism of post-WWI England. He succeeded brilliantly. [[This is all the digest that my machine transferred to reply, further comments will be without the sources]] Serena: The later RPT books (Speedy to Ozoplaning] and JS books are available from IWOC in hardcover and paper--except for Speedy and Wishing Horse, which have colored plates and are only available in cloth. The JNN books are available from BoW. There are four RPT books that are just not currently available. Contact Ozbucket and BoW for some of the newer books. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 10:39:10 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY MUSIC: Well, there is a lot of music that I consider "Ozzy", either on account of my listening to it while reading/writing Oz books, or using folks from my CD shelf as models for drawing Oz characters...I am among those in the "Enya trend" that Chris notes. Much of her music is mystical/magical and make for good Oz backround music, and I draw Glinda to look like Enya! Then I also like ABBA as Chris does...I generally don't use ABBA for Ozzy "mood music", but the two girls of ABBA, Agnetha and Frida, are both in my Ozzy drawings. Frida ("the dark-haired siren") is my model for Ozma ( no wonder Dan is crazy about her! :) ), and I use Agnetha for Aujah. My favorite stage actress/singer is Elaine Paige (currently playing Norma Desmond on Broadway). IMHO her singing of Memory amd other Broadway hits blow away everyone else, and she is a brilliant character actress as well. Her wide-eyed, laughing face becomes Audah on my drawing pad. I also like Vangelis, whose music I use often as "Ozzy mood music" (As Scott points out, he's just one guy, not a group) -- I have even formulated "Alternate Ozzy Names" for Vangelis pieces -- Here is my list (with the album on which the track is located in parentheses): "Nonestica" -- Bon Voyage (Oceanic) "Ozian Countryside" -- Hymne (Opera Sauvage) "Palace Gardens" -- First Approach (Direct) "Zim's Song" -- To the Unknown Man (Spiral) "The Magic of Oz" -- Message (Direct) "Emerald City" -- Sword of Orion (Albedo 0.39) "Glinda's Song" -- Glorianna - Hymne a la Femme (Direct) "The Three Adepts" -- The Oracle of Apollo (Direct) "Ozma and Jellia" -- Song of the Seas (Oceanic) Other music I like include Gilbert & Sullivan, Cole Porter, Mozart, Ray Lynch, some of Andrew Lloyd Webber, etc.; but none of them have any Ozzy connotations for me... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:51:13 -0500 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Ozzy Digest -- Looking for... Sender: BARLOW NATE I was wondering if anyone on here could help me find this item, which I'm trying to find for a gift. I'm looking for the soundtrack to the movie version of The Wiz. If anyone has an extra copy or knows where they can find me one, I'd greatly appreciate it. BTW, not to open any old discussions, I just finished _Wicked_, and enjoyed it immensely. Peace, Nate ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Reviews of Buckethead Oz Books I've recently read quite a number of Buckethead books, and thought I'd post the reviews separately from my regular comments on the Ozzy Digest so people who aren't interested can skip them easily. (I'm also sending them directly to Tyler for his Web page.) One general comment - the zero-to-five star rating system doesn't give room for much in the way of fine gradations, even with half-star increments. On this rating system, I'd give the entire FF five stars except for the first two Neills, and they'd get four, even though I scaled them from A+ to D- when measured against one another. THE FLYING BUS IN OZ, by Ruth Morris, illustrated by Corinne Morris. This is a delightful book in which a family of Canadian children and their doll, along with a school bus and its driver, visit Oz and have interesting adventures. The author has captured the feeling of Oz very well, and she writes good, smooth, readable prose. There are no really wicked characters - the Noyzy Boyz, who serve as antagonists, are more thoughtless than malefic - and the family relationships among the children are very well developed. The illustrations were done by the author's ten-year-old daughter, and look it, but they have considerable childish charm and verve. The best Buckethead book that I've read so far, except for DISENCHANTED PRINCESS. Four and a half stars. THE CASE OF THE FRAMED FAIRY OF OZ, by Gil Joel (with Chris Dulabone) Perry Mason is brought to Oz, along with Della Street and Paul Drake, to defend Ozma against a charge of practicing witchcraft. This is a very well-done pastiche of a Perry Mason novelette; Joel actually does quite a good job of capturing the speech patterns of Perry, Della, and Paul from the books. Since he obviously is familiar with the books, it's surprising that he places Mason's office in New York; it's in Los Angeles, and I don't believe Mason himself ever crossed the Mississippi in the books. (I'm not sure about the TV program.) Still, that's a minor quibble; the story is well-done, and the ending is a twist as surprising as the climaxes of the mysteries. The Ozzy content is adequate, though I'd characterize this as much more a Perry Mason mystery set in Oz than an Oz book featuring Perry Mason. Four stars. RED REERA THE YOOKOOHOO AND THE ENCHANTED EASTER EGGS OF OZ, by Richard G. Quill, illustrated by A.E. Mouse. Like Scraps' birthday poem from MAGIC, this is a case where the title is almost as long as the text. Not really, but this is the length of a fairly short short story, not a book. The prose is good, and the illustrations are excellent - "Mouse" is Buckethead's best illustrator other than Grandy, at least of the books I've seen - but there's nothing much to the story. Three stars. THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ, by Chris Dulabone, illustrated by Melody Grandy. This is a pretty good, if rather episodic, story that has very little to do with Oz; about the only connection is the presence in the story of Eureka, though there doesn't seem to be much similarity between the character in this book and the one in DOTWIZ (or in OZMAPOLITAN). There's a great deal of time-traveling that can be confusing at times, and the magic doesn't seem to follow any logic at all. Still, the story moves along well, the prose is adequate, and the illustrations are excellent. Three and a half stars. THE EMERALD RING OF OZ, by Jeremy Steadman, illustrated by Chris Dulabone. This book has a very Ozzy plot line, and the prose is quite decent for someone who was at most in his mid-teens when he wrote it, though it creaks a little in places. There's a suitably nasty villain in a witch called Kiex, a mortal boy who gets to Oz by an unaccountable means, and lots of our old friends - especially the mortal children - having adventures together and singly. As for the illustrations, Dulabone writes better than he draws, although he draws better than I can. (On the other hand, I've never dared to illustrate a book...) Three and a half stars. PEGASUS IN OZ, by Annie Brzozowski, illustrated by Steve Burt The author was at most 13 when she wrote this, and unfortunately, it shows. The plot is amusing and quite Ozzy, and we meet some interesting new characters, but there are far too many amazing coincidences, and the prose is probably best described as jerky. I think Brzozowski shows a great deal of potential as an Oz writer - her imagination is excellent - but she needs more practice at putting words on the page so they read smoothly, and in pacing. The illustrations are a little crude, but I actually found them quite charming. The familiar characters don't resemble any traditional versions - Ozma reminds me more of Smurfette than of Neill's version - but they're fun. Two and a half stars. TIME TRAVELING IN OZ, by Ryan Gannaway, illustrated by Marcus Mebes. This book is actually published by Ozian Seahorse Press rather than Buckethead, but I ordered it through Buckethead and so I'm reviewing it here. It has a complicated plot that includes a trip back to the time of LOST PRINCESS, though the logic of it all is rather far-fetched. It purports to give the origin of the Magic Belt, although KALIKO IN OZ gave a completely different story. The book is Ozzy enough, but Gannaway sometimes comes up with sentences that sound as if they were intended for entries in the Bulwer-Lytton write-alike contest. (For instance, one sentence on page 2 ran 110 words. And it wasn't the only one of comparable length.) The illustrations are only fair; Mebes did much better ones for LURLINE AND THE WHITE RAVENS OF OZ. (Betsy Bobbin looks as if she were modeled on Barbra Streisand; I guess that's OK, but it's wildly at variance with my mental image of her.) Three stars. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:49:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: You're writing now -- you'll probably still be writing at 75. // You pointed out to Dave Hardenbrook that Dorothy in "Wizard" never said "I don't care if you get what you want so long as I get what I want" and that the quasi-quote paraphrased what the narrative said she was thinking. I'd add a reminder of the point Gordon Birrell made earlier: that the narrative description of the thought has it as part of her reaction to the argument between the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman, each believing that the other would get no good out of having the gift he planned to ask of the Wizard, and that it's a sensible reaction to an insoluble problem. It doesn't mean she doesn't care about them. Tyler Jones: On having the Silver Slippers show up in later stories, even though lost in the Desert -- there was a story in "Oziana" several years back in which the Slippers were recovered from the Sand Witch of the Desert. // On Nomes/Gnomes as meaning "someone who knows" -- that is actually what "gnome" was thought to mean. Dictionaries now have mostly abandoned that derivation, but it was standard until recently (my Dunkiton pamphlet on "Gnome Matters" gives more details on the meaning). Looks more to me as if Baum clearly intended Nomes and Gnomes to be the same, just with simplified spelling. Rich Morrissey: I don't know details on negotiations for "Forbidden Fountain." I assume Eloise McGraw's position as a major children's book author and as the McGraws' as Reilly & Lee Oz authors were factors. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:37:40 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-17-97 Someone broke into my University's computer and caused a mess. I did not get to see any postings until today. I shall just answer the most recent, unless I see something irresistable on one of the earlier ones. > From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu > > Steven: Isn't Worra a character from the Volkov novels, though, even if > the monkeys are not enchanted people, I'm sure I heard that name before. I must confess I do not remember the name. You can chech TALES OF MAGIC LAND > Didn't Kabumpo go public domain this year? Ralph Griffith and > Stuart Kerr mentioned Kabumpo locations in the lastest issue of _Oz_, > which ought to confirm that Kabumpo can be used without royalty. You may do so at you own risk. BTW mentioning a character is not the same as using it. There is, also, such a thing as courtesy. > In Alex Cox's film, _Repo Man_, there is a parody of dianetics called > "diuretics." > I believe there was a much earlier parody of the same name in HOPPALONG FREUD or HOPPALONG FREUD RIDES AGAIN (I will have to check this at home). > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > > well i finally finished watching baums silent oz movies and i must say i > think they hold up well though the soudntrack is annoying at times It would be wonderful if someone would dig up the original Louis Gottchalk scores and record them. > > ====================================================================== > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Hi! Welcome back > Back after a crazy week which included auditions and casting for a play > I will be directing this semester, So, what play will you be directing? The 1902 WIZARD OF OZ? > From: RMorris306@aol.com > > > I'm still confused. You indicated Maryott *was* willing to sell the > rights to the IWOOC and/or the McGraws, but wouldn't be willing to sell them > to, say, Scott or Bear.What's the distinction? Part of the distinction is Fred Meyer, who has kept a close personal and professional contact with Dorothy Maryott. He, I am sure, was able to persuade Dotty that no harm was being done. Up to now IWoc has declined to publish (except in OZIANA which is a very special case) any fiction that was not written by OZMOPOLITAN which was written by MERRY-GO-=ROUND illustrator Dick Martin. > Was it that the McGraws were "official" Oz writers (having written an FF book) and hence deserved more > courtesy? Yes > (I personally thought Neill's treatment of some of the > characters was a greater injustice to them than anything I could imagine > Scott or Bear doing.) Neill's work was done for Reilly and Lee, who held all the copyrights. BTW: your imagination is much weaker than mine. > < too. >> > > I read only the first book (at the invaluable and sorely-missed Harvard > library...I wonder if Gili could check some books out?) and wasn't interested > enough to bother with the rest. Actually the first AUNT JANE'S NEICES book is the best of the lot. But it suffers from incredible coincidences that mar almost all of Baum's adolescent and adult fiction. > When and where was Glinda mentioned? I'd think she'd have been a fictional character, > since she wouldn't exactly fit into the AJN milieu... > Her goodness is mentioned in passing as a quality that some character possesses. > And now...THE (WONDERFUL) WIZARD OF OZ! > the old crow who befriends the > Scarecrow...who, I trust, was *not* one of those he later killed. Certainly not, it was a Munchkin crow, not a Winkie one. > Indeed, s/he definitely wasn't if we're to believe Volkov, who brought him (or, to > Volkov, her) back in later books. Volkov called her Kaggi-Karr; I wonder if > Oz fandom as a whole could adopt that name for her (him) as it did those of > Gingemma and Bastinida? I am not sure we have. I, for one, only use those names for Volkov's characters, never for Baum's. > But the doomed romance of Nick Chopper and Nimmee Aimee (if I can be > forgiven for using the names not given in this book but in later ones) was > rather surprising, involving a major character in the novel who fails to do > anything for her until Baum returned to the plot (again, by reader demand) in > TIN WOODMAN. (Actually, from the standpoint of this book alone, there was no > reason to assume he *wouldn't* have sent for her once he became established > as Emperor of the Winkies. By the time Baum returned to him in LAND, he may > simply have forgotten he'd left his fiancee behind.) He certainly does not mention that possibility in WWOO. > In retrospect, perhaps the fame of THE WIZARD OF OZ may have been owed > as much to the Broadway musical (and, later, to the MGM movie) than to the > book itself. > > Rich Morrissey The initial success of the book preceeded the musical version, and it was a classic before the movie. Certainly much of its fame in the 1990s comes from the 1939 movie. It is impossible to know what the fate of the book would have been had the movie not come out. > Actually, there are several instances of copyrighted characters appearing in > Oziana, IIRC. Oziana is a special case. Perhaps Robin will explain the criteria for appearance in that publication. > > From: OzBucket@aol.com > > On the subject of L. Frank Baum's Oz books, I find it hard to completely > throw away any of them. That is a good idea, but if you do decide to throw any away, throw them my way. > I like to say things that will get people back into Oz chat. Aha! > I am curious to know what kinmds of music intrigue any of us. I have noticed an Enya trend among many Oz fans. I am a big Gilbert and Sullivan fan (I also like other operetta and opera) > I didn't care for the movie [Chariots of Fire]. You must have seen a very different movie than I did. I liked it intensely. Harold Abrahams was anything but a loser. Nor was he unscrupulous. He was a man out to prove himself in the face of the entrenched anti-semitism of post-WWI England. He succeeded brilliantly. [[This is all the digest that my machine transferred to reply, further comments will be without the sources]] Serena: The later RPT books (Speedy to Ozoplaning] and JS books are available from IWOC in hardcover and paper--except for Speedy and Wishing Horse, which have colored plates and are only available in cloth. The JNN books are available from BoW. There are four RPT books that are just not currently available. Contact Ozbucket and BoW for some of the newer books. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:42:15 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97 Steve: _Oziana_ received specific permission from Harvey Plotnick of Regnery (the successor to Reilly & Lee) to use the characters. DCM has never seemed to mind our using RPT's characters in the magazine, probably because it's so clearly an amateur publication with a very limited audience and because it generates no income. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:10:21 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97 Richard: I imagine the YBR being in "bad shape", as you point out in a WIZARD illo resulted from a lack of use perpetuated by the spells of the two wicked witches who controlled the parts of Oz where the portions of the YBR are located. Concerning agression in Oz--Ozma's ascension to the throne ended that sort of thing. (Or so I like to think.) Chris D. (Ozbucket): For me, Oz suggests classical music. Either that or Celtic. (Of course, those are two of the three kinds of music I can stand, the other being show tunes--but that's not the point.) Aaron: I'm not sure I've taken ideas directly from dreams, but I sometimes have fantasy-style dreams;. after a night of such a dream, I usually find plot ideas come to me more readily. That's all for today. --Jeremy Steadman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:29:49 -0500 (EST) From: Nathan DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97 Scott: Actually, Peter brought gold, not pearls, with him to Philadelphia. When Ozma transports the treasure, she states that this gold originally came from the Great Outside World, not Nonestica. We know from _Jack Pumpkinhead_ that at least one of the sacks and one of the gold pieces had magical powers. BTW, maybe some of the other gold pieces might also be magical, and a magical coin could be in a coin shop at this very moment. David: The Wizard might have been able to remove some of the physical ailments that come with age without changing his outward appearance. On Chick's gender: IIRC, there were two winners in the contest to decide whether Chick was a boy or a girl. One said that the child was a boy, and the other said that the youth was a girl. Of course, it's possible that Chick might not be either male or female. He/she could be hermaphoditic, and calling Chick a Cherub suggests that the child might be asexual. We really don't even know if Chick is human. The child was raised by an incubator, after all. John: I believe that the character Kabumpo is currently in PD (because he appeared in _Silver Princess_), but the book _Kabumpo_ is not. Bear: Baum and Denslow were friends, so there is a good chance that the author did see the illustrator's work before it was published. Incidentally, the book was copyrighted by both Baum and Denslow. The ruined parts of the Yellow Brick Road were in uninhabited areas. In populated places, the people probably fix the road when it falls into disrepair. It is interesting to note that the china church in _Wizard_ is the only mention of such a building in Baum's Oz books (IIRC). Thompson makes passing references to churches in _Ojo_ and _Handy Mandy_. Aaron: I remember a dream in which I read a list of Oz books, and one of the titles was _The Royal Crab of Oz_. I hope to someday write an Oz story about such a crab, although I might change his name to the Crab Emperor, as a kind of joke on Crab Imperial. Steve: There seem to be a few words missing in the part where you discuss books published by IWOC. On music: I can't think of any really Ozzy music right now, but, in an Oz story that I am currently writing, there is a passing reference to a Gillikin community called Scarborough Fair. Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu "I can't think of a quote right now." -Me ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:57:12 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS John - Someone must have put something like this in a post-FF book: Munchkin: Stand right here Mrs. Witch, right on this big X. Witch: What is the point of all this? Munchkin: We just want to honor you today. Witch: Well, why are you all backing away? SPLAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Munchkins In Chorus: Yes!!!!! I have always thought of this as simply a fortunate unlikely event, you know like the chance of winning the lottery. However, someone does win, and in this case the Witch lost. Ozbucket - Oz music - "Dark Side of the Moon" and the "Twin Peaks" album. What a great Digest - Backhanded jabs from both Jeremy and Stephen. There's nothing like an academic for subtilty. Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:20:22 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: Yes, Peter did bring some treasure with him at the end of _Pirates_ as well as at the end of _Gnome King_. The Wizard remarked that some treasure was "real", and thus could survive the crossing. The Wizard theorized that Polacky must have done some pirating in our world before crossing over to Oz. Queen Ann: This has been moved to 1942B on the HACC, given David's revelation of this book taking place 40 years after Ozma's coronation. Perhaps it will move again if I unsqueeze the first six of the FF. Hopefully, this weekend I will finally publish an updated version of everything, including new reviews of BEOO books. Jeremy: Just for the record, the _Little Wizard Stories_ are considered to fit in with the mainstream series. John: Kabumpo himself is PD, but there is a catch. You can only use him as he appears in PD books. This is a fine distinction, however, and it is doubtful that any action would be taken if someone used a PD character in a non-PD way. John: Farmer theorized that Glinda may have had a hand in Dorothy's house in his non-HACC _Barnstormer in Oz_. Aging: My current MOPPeT is that Baum, as an early explorer of Oz, did not realize that people were aging very slowly, and he assumed that all aging stopped. In later years, after more investigating, it was discovered that people aged only when they wanted to. Bear: I don't know if there is an explanation in the FF, but in _Tin Castle_ we meet a man made of Yellow Bricks who works to repair the road. One possibility is that the WWE, fearful of the Wizard, allowed the road to fall into disrepair in order to cut down on access to and from EC. Chris: I suppose you can call AOL tech support, and they might be able to do something. Stars: David has a point in saying that the current 0-5 star system does not allow for a fine gradation in ratings. I may or may not change it, perhaps to a standard grading scale, from F to A+. This would give us 13 levels, if I do not include F+ and F-, which many people say are meaningless, although one high school teacher gave them out if necessary. Tyler: You know, dad, I didn't get an "F"; I got an "F PLUS". Dad: Plus what? While I am a heavy-metal head, I do not consider this music "Ozzy" by any stretch of the imagination. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:22:09 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Attention CompuServers: Not Ozzy, but of note. Check out "What's New" for something called "Personalize your e-mail address". --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:07:19 +0000 From: "L. Beltz/M. Krueger" Subject: Ozzy Digest QUEEN ANNE: The book was written in the late 80's and early 90's. The original pre - Books of Wonder manuscript was finished prior to July, 1991. I know this for a fact because as one of the proofreaders I read it aloud to my husband as we drove to the Winkie Conference that year. Lynn Beltz ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 23:33:59 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "BORDER'S" IN ORANGE COUNTY (BELATED REPLY TO DAVID H.): The Mission Viejo "Border's" (that IS the one I was at) has been there for *two years*??? Well, I guess this is just the first time it's been listed in the Huntington Beach Yellow Pages... DEATH OF "OLD SAND-EYE" (A.K.A. GINGEMMA): FWIW, a couple of years ago, before I was online and started the Ozzy Digest or joined the IWOC, I wrote a story which explained the seemingly coincidental demise of "Old Sand-Eye" (my name I had for the WWE; the WWW was "Old Snarl-Spats")...In this story it was all orchestrated by the Adepts, who finally figured out a round-about way to exterminate Old Sand-Eye by using their powers "garnered from nature" to harness a tornado in the Outside World, have it pick up a good, heavy house, carry it through the Earth-Nonestica wormhole to where the witch (whom I imagined to be on the narcoleptic side) was slumbering under a tree in Munchkinland, and SPLAT!!!!! That was my story, anyway...It probably doesn't hold HACC-water, but at least it was fun to write... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, FEBRUARY 20, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:37:37 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 02-18-97 Observations from the first eight chapters of _Wizard_: (page numbers are from BoW's fascimile edition) 1. Ch.2, p.24 - The Witch of the North says there are no witches left in civilized countries (like Kansas), but Oz isn't civilized. This suggests to me that Baum initially intended or thought that Oz was someplace on Earth. Perhaps he thought the Deadly Desert was all that separated it from the outside world. Of course in later books we learn about other parts of Baumgea that are outside the Deadly Desert, but note that these, too, are uncivilized countries (like Ev) where magic is practiced. 2. The color scheme in Oz is much less rigid here. Note for example in the Munchkin country (Ch.2, p. 20) that there were "lovely patches of green sward, and (Ch. 3, p. 34) though "blue was the favorite color," Dorothy visits Boq's house which has a "green lawn before it." 3. I don't think Dorothy was a selfish brat, she was just a lost little girl who was rightfully worried about finding her home. She "was truly sorry for him [the Scarecrow]" because he had no brains (Ch.3, p. 39). Dorothy's later thought that her companions' plight wouldn't matter so much if she were back in Kansas is not unreasonable. After all, despite their problems, they seem better able to take care of themselves than she does. 4. Humor! Dorothy remarks there's no place like home, even though it's dry and gray (Ch. 3, p. 45). The Scarecrow responds, "I