] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 31 - APRIL 1, 1997 *** |@ @| *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 1, 1997 *** | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] (No Digest for the 31th... -- Dave) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:21:28 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Gordon, Re: "Speaking of the Gump, not to mention a much more recent Gump: I see that the OED defines a gump as "a foolish person, a dolt" and gives citations back to 1825." There once was a comic strip character named Andy Gump who was quite a foolish person. I don't know if he was in existence in 1825 (rather doubt it) but if there are any OZ connections I can't make them. Baum's Gump is definitely not "a foolish person, a dolt". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:17:24 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Melody: We originally received seven manuscripts. John tells us we'll be getting eighteen more soon. There will be more than this, I'm sure, since we haven't a count yet on the ones that will come in with a 3/31 postmark. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:52:26 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 1) I wonder whether "macaroni penguin" is related to the 18th-century sense of the word: "in the very latest (maybe even over the top) style" -- which, for anyone who doesn't already know, is the meaning of the word in "Yankee Doodle", the intention being a laugh at the expense of the poor hick who thinks one lousy feather makes him some kind of fashion god. 2) I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight, ten....". It is not unheard of for paedegogical paradigms (Hey! I used the word correctly!) to fall out of fashion. Perhaps some people on the Digest are old enough to remember: a, e, i, o, u, and sometimes y & w (It's true; there are a very, very few rare English words of Welsh origin, such as "cwm" [an English borrowing with the same Celtic root as "coomb", which is itself one of the dozen or so British {i.e., proto-Welsh} words to survive from pre-Anglo-Saxon, pre-Roman times into modern English], in which "w" is used as a vowel.) or ST. WAPNIACL. (If no-one can remember, or guess, who the old saint is, I'll update on a later posting.) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:41:19 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: One problem with your penguin joke was that penguins live in the Antarctic, not the Arctic. (Also, it was a bad joke, but you probably realized that.) Gordon: The Scarecrow was probably incorrect when he stated that Glinda had the Golden Cap. After all, if Glinda fulfilled her plans at the end of _Wizard_, the Scarecrow would have been in the Emerald City by the time that Glinda gave the cap to the Monkey King. Death might be mentioned more in _Wizard_ than it is in _Land_, but it is mentioned many times in both. Someone once mentioned that, when death is mentioned in _Land_, it is in a more humorous way than in _Wizard_, with Jinjur's threat to turn the Wogglebug into goulash cited as an example. On Fairies: In some fairy lore, it is mentioned that fairies are weak against iron. Is this true for Oz fairies? Can anyone recall a time when Ozma came into contact with iron? -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-24 thru 27-97 3/24: Serena: We know that Dorothy had traveled all night on the train from San Francisco, although the train had been traveling unusually slowly so it might not have gone terribly far. The fact that she caught the train in San Francisco suggests to me that Hugson's ranch is somewhere in the Salinas Valley; I think that trains for the Central Valley left from Oakland in those days (and may still, for all I know). Gili: Welcome back! I missed you! I guess the connection between Disney's THE RESCUERS and Sharp's MISS BIANCA is closer than that between the movie and her book of the same title, but it's still not a very close connection. My mother has had white hair since she was about 40, as far as that goes. I was thinking more of the wrinkles than the hair when I said that the GWN (who wasn't a farmer's wife) sounds more like someone in her 70s than a mere 60. 3/25: Earl: It sounds like the person who picked those trail names at the Sunday River Ski Resort has even read the books, since Eureka and Lost Princess aren't in the movie. Scott H.: My copy of RETURN TO OZ was dubbed by a friend off of their laserdisc, so it's about as good as it could be. (Don't tell Disney...) I don't think Baum intended Dorothy's diction in OZMA to portray her as a "hick"; I think he was trying (not very successfully) to make her sound like a little girl who has problems with big words. This continues through EMERALD CITY to some extent, but after that his child characters speak fairly normally most of the time. I don't think anything you've said about your MS would disqualify it on its face, but it doesn't sound much like it follows the spirit of Baum, which is one of the judging criteria. Not having read it, though, I may have a completely wrong impression of what it's like. I trust it's in the mail by the time you read this; if it's not, _that_ would disqualify it. Ruth: Anyone who cuts the color plates out of a reprinted Oz book shouldn't _discard_ the text - give it to a library or a charity thrift shop or some such, where some kid will be able to buy it for a quarter or two and maybe get hooked on Oz. Jeremy: I'm sure that BoW "has a lot of money" as compared to BEOO or the IWOC, but not by comparison with Borders. Bear: There's a difference between an excuse and a reason. Dorothy's bad experience with witches doesn't _excuse_ her callous attitude toward liquidating Mombi (or Notta, if he'd really been a witch), but it may _explain_ it. Dave: There's a character called "Mombi" in RETURN TO OZ, though she's not the same character as Mombi in LAND (being closer to Langwidere). 3/26: There was evidently a Digest for that date, but I didn't get a copy of it even on your re-send, Dave. Did you send it, and in any case, could you try one more time? 3/27: Melody: You'd probably make Dave Hardenbrook and me both happier if you'd call him "Dave" and me "David", instead of the other way round. Craig: March 26 was supposed to be the kickoff date for discussing LAND, so you're not premature. I agree that the plot of the book is haphazard - pretty much the classic "idiot plot", meaning that if the lead characters would stop acting like idiots for five minutes, the story would end right there. I noted that in the first chapter, Tip refers to his having had the ague "last year". This appears to be pretty conclusive evidence that human illness had not been abolished in Oz prior to Ozma's accession, and if illness hadn't been abolished, then aging and death probably hadn't either, though that's inference and not conclusive. Also, something that bothered me even when I first read the book at age 8 or so - starting at one-half is no help in counting to seventeen by twos. It's true that one is twice one-half, but counting by twos is an arithmetic progression, not a geometric one. If you want to count to seventeen by twos you have to start at minus one. (Or just start with one in the first place.) Jeremy: IWOC dues are currently the same whether new or renewal. I don't remember it ever being different, but I can't swear to that. One can presumably mention the Narnia books as books, in the same way one can mention the MGM movie as a movie, without violating copyright. Introducing characters from Narnia, however, would be a copyright violation. Guess that catches me up until I get the 3/26 Digest (not to mention 3/28-30, if there have been such Digests). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:27:16 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-28-97 Stephen, Bob, Nathan & others: Thanks for reminding me. Yes! Jack does live in a pumpkin patch in _Road_ in order to have a ready supply of heads. I had completely forgotten. I am very pleased that our Digest discussions will result in my rereading of the entire canon! Jeremy: Sorry to mystify you. I must have confused who wrote what about _Wicked_ and _Barnstormer_. Scott: Denslow's Dorothy looks more like a brunette than a blonde to me. Dave: Did I jump the gun in discussing _Land_? This leisurely schedule is fine with me since it gives me time to do other reading. BTW, I haven't yet heard from AOL's Postmaster about my problems receiving the Digest. It's been over a week now since I received a Digest that wasn't resent. Today is Easter Sunday, and the last Digest I received was Good Friday. Was there a Saturday Digest? And did you receive the transcript of my communication with AOL's TechLive Support? Are other people on AOL still having problems? I know that Dick Randolph has finally quit. He sent me his new email address. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:42:44 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Gordon: I'd imagine the Monkeys, after being the slaves of the WWW, preferred to be the servants of Glinda--for security, sort of. That is, they had been slaves to anyone who had the Cap for so long that they couldn't imagine any other existence, and they knew Glinda would only do what was best for them. Nathan: I'm with you there--about making puns only I appreciate. That is, only the Digest and I appreciate them. (Thanks, guys.) Anyone: Out of curiosity, what gives someone a right to do a SPOILER? I'm just curious--does one have to resemble Jack the most distinctly, or what? I agree with Dave's method of of 17-by-two's counting. (I think--I'm afraid was much too complicated for me, a mere college student . . .) After all, when we count by ones, we start with one. So when we count to ten by twos, why do we always start with two? Unless there's an unspoken "zero" in front of any counting sequence . . . Until my next posting, Jeremy Steadman P.S. Has anyone noticed I try to give a different closing each posting? I'm not sure why--I guess I like variety. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:48:23 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 > From: Jeremy Steadman > > Concerning IWOZ subscriber rates: Can I pass for 17 or under if I > shave my beard off and make my voice sound higher? [I don't think so] Oh, well. How is > the Bugle looking lately, by the way? > I think it looks very good. There is much more color than before. Both the inside and outside covers are color and there is a color centerspread. Bill Stillman's approach is very visual. The Winter 1996 issue is now out. For the scholar collectors there is an Bib. Baum about L. FRANK BAUM'S JUVINILE SPEAKER/BAUM'S OWN BOOK FOR CHILDREN. There is a very critical article on DOT/WIZ, which could serve as a starting point for Digest discussions of that book. There is a piece on E. Copelman, and her illustrations. There are reviews of books and videos, and much more. > From: "Estelle E. Klein" > > If anyone is interested, I've met a Russian book dealer, i.e., he is > Russian and he just sells Russian books to the Russian community here in > Colorado, doing this from his home. He has a few hard back and large soft > cover Russian oz books- some by Volkov and some by Baum...all in Russian. > If anyone is interested please contact me by e-mail. The hard back > books-which are new and have beautiful illustrations- run between 15 and 20 > each. > Does he have THE EMERALD RAIN? Noone except Gili has been able to get a copy as far as I know. Please let us know. > From: Gordon Birrell > Some observations on _The Marvelous Land of Oz_: > > 1) The Golden Cap: during the trip to the Tin Woodman's castle, the > Scarecrow tells Jack that "the Winged Monkeys are now the slaves of > Glinda the Good, who owns the Golden Cap that commands their services." > At the end of WWoO, however, Glinda states that she is using her three > wishes to transport the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Lion to their > respective realms, after which she will turn the Cap over to the head > monkey and deliver all of the monkeys from slavery. I assume this is > another of Baum's little slips, but it would be interesting to know if > anyone has come up with an adroit explanation for the discrepancy. > The Scarecrow has a leaky memory? > Craig: at the end of _Land_ Baum says that Jack Pumpkinhead remained > with Ozma to the end of his days and did not spoil as soon as he had > feared, but in _Road_ Dorothy encounters Jack in the best of health. Baum intended MARVELOUS LAND to be his last Oz book. Later he intended EMERALD CITY to be the last Oz book. He just couldn't kill his best cash cow. > I had some further comments about eating beans with a knife and General > Jinjur's brand of feminism, but--enough is enough! > "I Eat my peas with honey. I've Done it all my life. They do taste kinda funny, But it keeps them on my knife." > From: "Melody G. Keller" > Robin & Steve: > > Will you give us a manuscript count after March 31? Bet it has multiplied > greatly since that last count of 5. :-) > As of Friday, John Fricke announced there were 18 new MSS in addition to the seven he had already sent us. That makes 25, with more still to come in. Eleven came in between Monday and Friday. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:30:16 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: Maybe you can do like those old airline ads where a woman's two boys walked around on their knees to get the kids rate :-) The BUGLE is looking very well, indeed. At first, with a new editor, I was a little worried that it would shift into total MGM-Judy Garland mode and ignore the written aspect of Oz entirely. That suspicion was unfounded, and Bill Stillman is doing a fantastic job of representing ALL areas of Oz. Gordon: The boring explanation, of course, is that the brainy Scarecrow simply forgot about Glinda's promise to the King, and did not know of the three-service limit. Of course, Glinda could have altered the cap so that the owner (herself) could use it indefinitely, but that seems out of character for Glinda, especially since she said that she wanted to grant the monkeys their freedom. Perhaps the Monkeys were so impressed with Glinda (she is, after all, something special) that they volunteered to serve her without the cap. I forgot if _The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz_ or _The Winged Monkeys of Oz_ mentioned the cap. Can anybody help out? In the non-HACCurate _A Barnstormer in Oz_, after Glinda gives the cap to King Izarndanduz (The iron-handed one), who hides it, but somebody finds it again... The lion's absence is unusual. If the lion had been there, we would have had a very interesting parallel with the first book. However, it is perhaps better in the long run that it did not happen this way. IMHO, it would have set a bad precedent and it's possible that almost all Oz books would be about somebody who journeys around Oz with those same three characters. Death in _Land_: Also, Jinjur deliberately gives full details on how each of Tip's companions will come to their grisly end. counting to 17 by 2's: It's an interesting parallel to the Scarecrow's mangling of the pythagorean theorem in the MGM movie. It would have been easier to simply start at one, which after all IS a natural starting point for any counting sequence. I suspect that the spell simply ignored the one-half part. Gordon, I must confess: I was the second Scarecrow behind the grassy knoll. Dave: Cool program, but you forgot to pass in a pointer to the wish itself! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:03:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Arithmetic in Oz 1) Gordon, yes, the Sawhorse cheated on his math. 2) Nathan, what does _Wooglet_ say about why the Wogglebug didn't get stomach pains? He started from 0.5 as well. 3) Scott, a generic chapel? What a strange idea! What could cause that? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:06:40 -0600 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: oz Can any of you teachers help??? Jim V. -----Original Message----- From: Alayne1@aol.com [SMTP:Alayne1@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 1997 5:29 PM Subject: oz I would like to know where I could find the script for The Wizard of Oz as well as any motivational materials to teach elementary school children. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Alayne, reading specialist ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 3/28 Digest, Scott refers to an event in Farmer's _Barnstormer_, saying, That passage in the _Barnstormer_ book is so innocuous that I did not remember it and had to search to find the reference (in chapter 32). Hardly anyone's definition of pornographic. Could it be that we read different editions? Now if one were referring to the hero's relations with the Quadling lady he married, the matter is a little more open to interpretation -- but not, of course, here. :-) Dave, your naming of the WWE as "Old Sand-Eye" begs an explanation. (The name would seem to be more appropriate for the WWW, who looks like she might have had a speck of Deadly Desert sand blown into her left eye.) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:18:40 -0500 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Jeremy: >I guess Jack's heads weren't the retainers of his memories--it must have been the wood that makes up his body. I'd imagine the Powder of Life which enlivened him "wired" him that way. so to speak.< His pumpkin patch could be descended from seeds from his original pumpkin head, too. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:20:47 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Hanff Subject: No Ozzy Digest (fwd) Cc: Peter Hanff , Bill Stillman Good morning Dave, It was good to talk with you Saturday afternoon (although I fear I may have awakened you from a nap). Bill Stillman, editor of The Baum Bugle and an AOL user, has for about ten days received no Ozzy Digests. I noticed that others were having a problem so I suggested that Bill write to you directly. His message was returned as undeliverable. I'll try from my end. Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) From: TheBBugle@aol.com Subject: No Ozzy Digest Peter: My message to Dave re. no Ozzy Digest was returned undeliverable! Could you contact him on my behalf, or do you think this is indicative of a greater systems problem? Thanks, Bill ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ozgrif@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Time for a couple o' questions? Has there ever been any mention of different characteristics in the Munchkins , Gilkins, Winkies, Quadlings or Oz citizens? Are Munchkins shorter than Winkies? Does one have beards..ie dwarf like or pointy ears? I know about the different colors but is that all there is or are there any other major differences? How about resources? Is one area known more for farming or mining or wood working? Is there any type of monitory system? Thanks for all the info of the WW's. That will help in my future stories, also the name of the GWN. Also for those asking about ordering info on my comic, OZ, you can write to Caliber Comics, 225 N. Sheldon Rd., Plymouth MI., 48170 or call 1-888-22COMIC and get all the available back issue information. They also do a neat version of Peter Pan called "The Lost" and an updated version of War of the Worlds. Both good reads. OZ #20 should be out in about three weeks and the news may be grim for both Jin Jur and Jack Pumpkinhead...pum pum... ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Ralph Griffith ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:29:55 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 I just want to say everything I was concerned about are relatively minor portions of the story, which is not much different in nature from The Oz Kids, only with much older kids who are much more realistic and unpredictable, well rounded as opposed to the typage Carroll uses, so I don't think there should be too much concern. I had it postmarked on the last day. It cost nearly $40 to triplicate and almost $10 to put in the mail. But I got it postmarked on the 31st so I'm safe. I keep wanting to talk about it because all my MOPPeTs are in there, and if I start talking about them, I'll give away which is mine, if I haven't already. I liked the commentary on Dorothy/Notta Bit More. When I first read CLoO about ten years ago (and never again, unfortunately) than scene made me laugh out loud. It's interesting to see that might have been more than a joke. BTW, does anyone have a Dover John Dough they want to sell? I didn't know they had made this until I found it at a prof's house when he hosted an Oscar party, which is one reason I saw Walter (RTO) Murch and not Garland. The other is I don't have cable and can't watch A&E. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-30-97 Is there something about the 1902 play that says Boq's first name is Peter. I thought this was in the annotated Wizard, but I see now in the Oz Scrapbook one called Peter Pop. Maybe I just misread this, so can anyone clear it up. BTW, If I'm not mistaken, Eric Shanower put Imogene in Giant Garden. Has anyone put in Trixie Tryfle, the Lady Lunatic, Sir Dashemoff Daly, Sir Wiley Gyle, or King Pastoria II (as opposed to Pastoria, Ozma's father, who is clearly not the same character)? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:17:17 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff Well, my manuscript is away! I know I waited until the last possible second, so hopefully the PO Box in New York won't be overflowing TOO much in the next couple of days! Oh, how I wish we could discuss our books! Oh well. Perhaps the judges could give us some idea on when the winner will be decided? I was looking over the contest rules again, but it doesn't say. The only thing it says is that it mss. will be returned in 1999. Does this mean we have to wait two years before knowing the winner? One of the bad things that happened was that one of my chapter files got corrupted, and it was written too recently to be on my backup. Oh, the frustration of trying to remember what you've written! Good luck to everyone! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 00:33:17 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz To: Dave Hardenbrook Non-Ozzy but I can't resist: Earlier today Ozma, Dorothy, Betsy and Trot walked out onto the highest balcony of the palace and sang to the crowd this song: "Bear down, Arizona. Bear down, Red and Blue. Go! Go! Wildcats Go! Arizona... Bear DOWN!" --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 21:18:56 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MANY "GUMPS": No one has mentioned Forrest Gump yet! :) Gump: Actually, Forest Gump is the wood where my species lives... :) FROM _WIZARD_ TO _LAND_: Our BCF discussion has kind of made a nice smooth transition on its own from _Wizard_ to _Land_ without official announcement from me... I hope it is always like this... :) I now have a very important _Land_-related question...What ***DID*** the Wogglebug say???? :) WWE: Earl wrote: >Dave, your naming of the WWE as "Old Sand-Eye" begs an explanation. (The >name would seem to be more appropriate for the WWW, who looks like she >might have had a speck of Deadly Desert sand blown into her left eye.) It's a long story, but basically it emerged as part of an inside joke in a short story I wrote before _Locasta_ which not only explained how the Adepts pre-arranged the crushing of the WWE but also established the mother-daughter relationship between the WWE and the arch-villianess in _Locasta_...Realizing that "Sand-Eye" should be indicative of something, I recently formed the MOPPET that she was narcoleptic, and indeed that she had paused her quest for the herbs of uglification for Nimee Aimee to take a snooze, and which time somebody's house landed on her. BOOK CONTEST: Danny wrote: >Oh, how I wish we could discuss our books! Oh well. Can the people who have submitted manuscripts E-mail me privately and tell me so? There's something I'd like to say to those who along with me are bursting to discuss their entries... :) >Perhaps the judges >could give us some idea on when the winner will be decided? I was looking >over the contest rules again, but it doesn't say. The only thing it says >is that it mss. will be returned in 1999. Does this mean we have to wait >two years before knowing the winner? I second this request to know when we might expect an announcement of the winner.. AOL???: Well, the AOLer's are *STILL* not getting the Digest!!! As an experiment, in today's Digest I'm moving a few AOL address from BCC: to CC: fields, and we'll see if THAT makes a difference... -- Dave ====================================================================== ======================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:34:14 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: I am mightily impressed with your use of programming language to set up the complicated maneuver of counting by two's from one to seventeen. Still, the question remains of establishing 1 as the initial integer in a progression that proceeds by two's. Doubling 1/2 actually sets up a different series than the one the Sawhorse comes up with, if you follow the old rule that Rich (?? you didn't sign your name) cited: >I have always assumed, even from childhood, that the Sawhorse's logic >in counting seventeen by two's fossilizes an old school rote formula >that runs: "Counting by twos: two, twice two is four, six, eight, >ten....". According to this formula, you could indeed reach 17 as follows: "Counting by twos: one-half, twice one-half is one, two, three, four, five, six, . . . seventeen." Also Dave: I was referring to Forrest Gump when I wrote "a much more recent Gump"; guess I shouldn't have been so oblique. Melody: Great idea about Jack's new heads being descended from the seeds of his original head! Danny: I agree with you about Jinjur's brand of feminism. Any true feminist would cringe at these totally unreconstructed women with their love of chocolates and caramels, their fear of mice, their knitting needles, their laziness, their uncontrolled greed for jewelery. Jinjur's plans for doing away with the Woggle-Bug (death by cooking--turning him into a spicy goulash) is further evidence of her inability to get beyond conventional feminine thinking. All this is a far cry from the women who struggled with great courage and dignity, and often at considerable personal risk, to secure women's right to vote. Since Baum had close associations with the suffragette movement, he must have created Jinjur as an awful example of how *not* to go about securing women's rights. Still, it's unfortunate that his characterization of Jinjur played (plays) right into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things. Incidentally, here is how Baum describes Jinjur's uniform: ". . . her silken waist being of emerald green and her skirt of four distinct colors--blue in front, yellow at the left side, red at the back and purple at the right side." We later hear that the green waist represents the Emerald City and the other sections refer to the colors of the four quadrants of Oz. Yes, but! If blue, representing the Eastern quadrant of the Munchkins, is in front, then yellow, representing the Western Winkies, should be in back, not on the left; purple, representing the northern Gillikins, should be on the left side, not the right; and red, representing the southern Quadlings, should be on the right side, not in back. Perhaps Baum was suggesting that Jinjur is as wrongheaded about Oz geography as she is about everything else. On the Wizard's "suspicious" action of eating beans with a knife: I'm curious to know whether the younger members of the Digest have heard about that rule of etiquette that warns you against using a knife to eat beans or peas. I remember being very puzzled about that rule when I was growing up. It apparently means that you shouldn't use the knife to shovel the beans or peas onto your fork instead of daintily lifting them up with the fork alone. It's amusing that the Wizard's disregard for this rule marks him as a person of potentially questionable character--but does anyone take the rule seriously these days? Or even know about it? --Gordon Birrell ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 12:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Does anyone have a MOPPeT as to what happended to Jinjur's husband. I'm sure we all know Ralph's, that Kaliko transformed him into a pink ornamental squirrel, and smashed him on the ground. I don't see anything in the canon to support this, other than that Jinjur seems like she's retired by TWoO, when she has no husband. Perhaps she's gotten over this grief by then. I played Scraps in my novel amazingly like Griffith does, but at least the main character notes her behavior is unusual, a little less bouncy than usual. Scott ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:44:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Jeremy: That SPOILER pun was downright rotten! Aaron: Generic churches aren't particularly peculiar. Just Unitarian. Ralph:Characteristics of Winkies, etc. Everyone knows that Winkies and Quadlings are superior in intelligence to all other Ozites. ;) Rob-Roy MacVeigh showed Boq's name as "B. Wright Boq." I've always loved the pun. Contest: Steve, Barbara, and I will know the top three choices by this summer. The final choice should be made by the end of the year. batch has provided us with some very entertaining reading. STRONG writing skills abound. I'm impressed (and relieved). Also, thank you for having, for the most part, refrained from mentioning much about the content of your entries. I really don't want to know whose ms I'm reading. --Robin ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:34:40 -0800 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 COUNTRY PRIDE > Time for a couple o' questions? Has there ever been any mention of > different > characteristics in the Munchkins , Gilkins, Winkies, Quadlings or Oz > citizens? I think we talked about this a while back-- what was the consensus? I don't remember! As far as the four lands go, it's MOPPeT that Munchkin Country is the more farm-like, and Winkies is the more craftsman-like. At least, their leaders would probably tend toward those sensibilites-- Boq as a farmer and Nick Chopper needing Tin Smiths. Gillikin Country always seemed more wild and overgrown, at least with Baum. There were a lot of giant animal forests and such. I guess the same is true for Quadling, although Quadling seemed populated by more magical type wild creatures. The Hammerhead country, Hoppers and Horners, Fluttercomjigs (sic?) Bunbury and Utensia and all of that. With Thompson, though, she spotlights all the mini-cities and settlements much more than Baum-- WIth Baum, his characters wander through forests and countryside for long periods of time. Thompson moves her characters through them and into the next available weird city as soon as possible. MONEY IN OZ? Is there any way we could get Eric's great article on this subject to Ralph? WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN Hm. I had the same experience with feeling uncomfortable with the Sawhorse's counting stradegy. As a kid, I was excited beacuse I thought I figured out the "secret" behind the wishing pills-- "just start counting at ONE" my mind was shouting happily. Then they started counting at one-half, and I was a little disappointed. Kind of like picking the wrong suspect in an Agatha Christie novel, which I also seem to do more often than not. Danny ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 19:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Pastoria II (Ozzy Digest) 1) Scott, in my (completely unofficial) list of the rulers of Oz, Pastoria (step-father of Ozma) is listed as being Oz Pastoria II (ruled 1826-1861). Barry and I may put Trixie Tryfle in one of the later books of Lurline's Machine, assuming that Pastoria, who she would naturally be paired up with, is PD by then (and considering how long it's taking to write _Grey Witch_, that's quite possible). 2) Dave, the Wooglebug said, "Drink Herkunian Beer!" Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:25:39 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Bob - I thought Gump came from gumption in Sidney Smiths strip, "The Gumps." Your dictionary is much bigger than mine. In any event, I think "The Gumps" started in February 1916, long after our BCF was written. Nathan - I don't know about fairies in general disliking iron but the Sithi can't abide it. :) Jeremy - "A Spoiler" notice is simply a courtesy to others who may not have read a particular book. The Land of Oz p.16 "Mombi met a crooked wizard who resided in a lonely cave in the mountains." Now there's a story line for someone. p. 35 The color thing - everything is purple - grass, trees, houses, fences - Yuk! I have a hard time with purple asparagus. p. 79 Here is the answer to one question. There is only one language in Oz. p. 154 Now why would Baum give tailors nine lives? Curious? p. 262 Apparently the "Deadly Desert" wasn't at this time, because they all walked around in it. p. 276 Another question answered: "All down her back (Ozma's) floated tresses of ruddy gold." The "author's note" is interesting. The book was launched by 1000 little letters from 1000 little girls. It is interesting that Baum changed a fairy girl into a boy in "The Enchanted Island of Yew" which came out in 1903. He must have liked the idea as he changed Ozma into a boy in 1904 in our BCF. Now it will be three more years before "Ozma of Oz" comes out in 1907. Regards, Bear (:<) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:31:44 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Explanations: While it is fun to figure out clever explanations for things which seem odd, such as the Scarecrow mentioning that Glinda still controlls the Winged Monkeys via the Golden Cap, (and I do this more than anybody), most of the time, it can probbaly be safely assumed that someone (be it the character, the informer, the narrator or the publisher) simply made a mistake. Nobody gets every detail right every time, after all. Not even me :-) (I now wait patiently for the lightning to strike). Conventions: Just in case anybody is curious, is has become customary to refer to David Hulan as "David" and Dave Hardenbrook as "Dave". If their last names ended with different letters, it might be easier, but not everything in this world is easy. Copyrights: Mentioning books or characters in the form of critical analysis or scholarly discussion is not in violation of copyright law, but using others characters in a plot without permission is. Dorothy of the many hairdos: IIRC, Denslow drew Dorothy's hair with lines in it, which usually signifies a brunette or redhead in black and white drawings. Blonde hair is usually done with no internal dithering (to use a computer phrase), so that it appears white in black and white drawings. This, BTW, is how Dorothy appears in later drawings. more counting triviata: Well, there is usually a zero at the beginning of sequences when computers are concerned, but Tip may not have known this. Ralph: Offhand, I can think of a couple of things that were specifically mentioned about the different quadrants of Oz. 1. In _Emerald City_, Omby Amby mentions that the Munchkins and Gillikins= are good fighters. 2. I seem to remember bits and pieces of things mentioning that the different countries all grow and mine things representative of their color. For example, there's gold (plus wheat, butter and pumpkins) in them thar Winkie hills, strawberries and rubies in Quadlingland, etc. 3. I do not recall that the four regions specialized in any industry. Any differences seem to be on a local level. Baum used to mention the Gilikin country as being much more mountainous than the other regions, but as far as I can recall, other authors never really went anywhere with it, and Baum himself never went into much detail. 4. As for cash, I recommend Eric Gjovaag's article about money in Oz in the _Bugle_. I don;t remember which _Bugle_ it was in, but maybe somebody on the digest can help. --Tyler Jones ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:44:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-31-97 Nathan: Concerning your valid point about penguins living in the Antarctic, not the Arctic (I should have remembered that all the same!): valid point. Concerning your question about Ozma's possible weakness against a certain metal: wouldn't it be ironic? (You disqualified one joke, can you blame me for countering with another?) David Hulan: You say "I'm sure that BoW "has a lot of money" as compared to BEOO or the IWOC, but not by comparison with Borders"--alas, I am not fortunate enough to live near the store you mention. (Now that I no longer live in Texas, I don't even live near the Mexican Borders, either...) By the way, just because Tip says he has had the auge "last year" doesn't mean a great deal--in Oz, since the weather does not change considerably year-round (I don't think), it's likely he lost track of time (and since he was living under Mombi's dictation, this is even more likely). Tyler: I agree (about the reason Baum wanted variety rather than nearly-identical books series-through)--and it would have made the series incredibly boring! Dave: You mention that in an attempt to reach our AOL friends, you are "moving a few AOL addresses from BCC to CC fields. BCC is the abbreviation for Berry College Courses here--does this mean you think I am to blame? I hope not--I so hate to make enemies (and if my sister calls you with information to the contrary, she's lying). So long everyone-- --Jeremy Steadman [[[I may insert some quotes here at some point]]] ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:14:26 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest David: The character of Mombi in "Return to Oz" seemed to be an attempt to mix Mombi and Langwidere. She had a collection of heads, but she was also a witch who had possession of the Powder of Life. Aaron: _Wooglet_ suggests that it was the Wogglebug's strong stomach that allowed him to swallow the pill without a pain. Ralph: The color schemes are the major differences between the four major nations of Oz. Other aspects of the country are related to the color schemes. For instance, the Winkie Country is known for gold mines, peaches, and pears, while the Quadling Country is famous for strawberries. There may also be differences in speech patterns between the countries, since Wutz guesses that Nox came from the Munchkin Country because of the way he talks. Each of the four major countries, however, is divided into many smaller countries, each of which has its own unique culture. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 23:47:58 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy wrote: >You mention that in an attempt to reach our AOL friends, you are >"moving a few AOL addresses from BCC to CC fields. BCC is the >abbreviation for Berry College Courses here--does this mean you think >I am to blame? I hope not--I so hate to make enemies (and if my >sister calls you with information to the contrary, she's lying). Jellia: BCC also stands for Bank of Credit and Commerce [International]... It's *their* fault! Thank you, Jellia! Seriously, in the relevant context it means "Blind Carbon Copy", and it is used to "hide" a list of E-mail addresses...Back in days of yore, Delphi didn't support the BCC: field, so that I had to put everyone's addresses in the "To:" field, which meant that every Ozzy Digest everyone received was preceeded by the 100-odd E-mail addresses of everyone on the Digest, and very few people liked *that*. But with BCC:, all the addresses are hidden. I thought that the problem the AOLers were having might be connected to the BCC: field, but after sending a bunch of diagnostic test messages to them, such has proved not the case...Now I'm wondering if the size of the Digest is responsible...My current-and-to-be-tested MOPPET is that the AOL mailer looks at the Digest's size, and at the fact it's a mass mailing, assumes from that that the Digest is a spam, and discards it...(!) Jellia: Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of "What's the AOL Administrators Got Against Oz???"! :) -- Dave ======================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 3, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 07:20:44 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Noted in the 3/31 _USA Today_ Life section Lifeline column by Arlene Vigoda: "DOROTHY FOUND: Jessica Grove [acute accent over the e] of Columbus, Ohio, has been tapped to play Dorothy in the New York production of _The Wizard of Oz_. The 15-year-old will match wits with Roseanne, who'll portray the Wicked Witch of the West in the 48-sow run, starting May 7 at Madison Square Garden." [Quoted in its entirety. Accompanied by a picture showing a pretty Jessica in Judy Garland dark hair, braids and costume.] As to regional differences among the people of the four main Oz countries, the Munchkins appear to be the most prosperous. This is due to their greater industry and intelligence, or course. :-) Dave, the hexs are back in the 4/2 Digest. Indeed, one could say that the issue has considerable depth, as all the divider lines appear as =3D=3D=3D... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 06:44:52 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 DaveH47, About BCC: "Seriously, in the relevant context it means "Blind Carbon Copy"", in predeluvian times that was the case ;-). Since the demise of carbon paper it has come to indicate "Blind Courtesy Copy". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 11:11:28 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: I don't know what happened to Jinjur's husband. Maybe he tired of living with her, and left, like Jol Jemkiph Soforth left his wife (who was named Dede, according to _Queen Ann_). I'm pretty sure that Kalko wasn't involved in the disposal of Jinjur's husband. Danny: The Fuddles live in Fuddlecumjig, and there is another group of Quadlings known as Flutterbudgets. As far as I know, there are no "Fluttercomjigs," unless they are cross-breeds between Fuddles and Flutterbudgets, or something like that. On the Jackdaws' Nest: All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New Mexico. The Scarecrow thinks that the Gump has flown into the Great Outside World, but there is a possibility that it flew to another part of Nonestica, with which the Scarecrow was unfamiliar. It is true that the nest contains dollar bills, but, according to "The Queen of Quok," Quok, which is placed not far from the jackdaws' nest by Haff and Martin, uses dollars and cents as currency. The many treasures in the nest would be more likely to exist in Nonestica than in the Outside World. Anyway, what do you think? Also, why did the Ozites seem to recognize the dollar bills as money, when there is no indication that Oz ever used paper money? Dave: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! The hexadecimals are back! -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 03-28 thru 03-31-97 AOL is still doing something weird with the Digest, even though other mail to and from Dave seems to go fine. Still, this will catch me up to where I'm only two days behind... 3/28: Steve: So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. I can see it taking until 1999 to decide on the final winner, but it shouldn't take that long to eliminate quite a lot of the lesser contenders. (I hope, naturally, that mine will stay in the running all the way. But if it isn't, the sooner I know it the better.) Scott H.: In the color plates of my BoW edition of WIZARD, Dorothy appears to be more of a redhead than anything else. Not flaming red, but sort of chestnut. Definitely not what I think of as brunette (which would be like Ozma in the later books). Farmer has written pornography, but BARNSTORMER is not pornographic. It is, however, an adult novel, with a significant number of sexual references in it. The term "pornographic" is getting thrown around here to an extent that makes me wonder if some people on the Digest have ever seen real pornography. Danny: The Woggle-bug character isn't supposed to be liked. That's not his function in any of the books where he appears. (Including the one I've written.) But I enjoy writing about what a friend on GEnie (back in the good old days of GEnie) referred to as "pain-in-the-ass characters". That's why my first three Oz novels have centered on Bungle, Eureka, and the Professor. Some others that fall into that category include Button-Bright, Queen Ann, Quox, Bilbil (but unfortunately he had a personality change when he was disenchanted), the Frogman, Red Reera, and Kabumpo. None of them are at all evil, even in the mild Ozzy sense, but they all have personality flaws that make them frequently annoying. It's true that the Woggle-bug is largely superfluous to the story of LAND (as you point out, the only significant act he does is to swallow the wishing pill, and it would have had no effect on the story if Tip hadn't gotten cramps from it); he was clearly added with the projected stage production in mind. Bear: >Dave - Did I hear you blow the whistle to start BCF No. 2???? Didn't >thinks so. If you would set a date we wouldn't have people jumping the >gun. I don't think Craig was jumping the gun. Some time ago Dave asked if March 26 would be a good date to start on LAND, and some said yea and nobody said nay. Aaron: There's a reasonable amount of evidence that post-Ozma Ozites stay fairly well in touch with developments in the Great Outside World. This probably includes bringing in books by some magical means, and the Bhagavad-Gita was quite popular in a PB edition when I was in college in the late Fifties (and may be in college circles now, for all I know). Anyhow, Ozamaland's culture seems to derive from India (despite the "Ozamandarin" title that sounds Chinese). So there may well have been Hindus among the early immigrants from our world to Nonestica. I'd consider BARNSTORMER more PG-13 than R, but it's on the borderline. Definitely not X, though. (WICKED, however, is a solid R.) Dave: Allowing too much time for everyone to catch up reading LAND gives those of us who recently reread it for a March 26 start date too much time to forget details. 3/30: Gordon: I agree with the person who said that the Scarecrow simply forgot that Glinda had said she'd give the King of the Winged Monkeys the Golden Cap after he'd granted her wishes. Though I suppose it's possible that the King thought it would be safer with Glinda than anywhere else he could store it; presumably destroying it isn't feasible. The absence of the Lion is probably due to the fact that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman dominated the stage play (in the persons of Stone and Montgomery), so they were the only major characters from the first book to reappear in the second - which, as several people have remarked, was clearly written as the basis for another play. Note that the only "normal" animals that appear in LAND are the field mice; animals are harder to use on stage. (Or, from the Oz-as-history point of view, the Lion didn't appear in LAND because that was the way it happened!) Nathan: The phrase Baum used about Ozma's hair was "tresses of ruddy gold." Oddly, he said her lips were "tinted like a tourmaline," which is pretty ambiguous. bluish-green. If he wanted to avoid the cliched "ruby" I'd have thought he'd have chosen "garnet" or some other gem that's characteristically red or pink. 3/31: Bob: The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. A Kennedy (can't tell if it's John or Eleanor): I'm sure that the "macaroni penguins" who live in the Antarctic got their name from the 18th-century usage of the word, based on the description of them someone posted. There aren't many words where "w" is used as a stand-alone vowel, but it's very common as the second element of a diphthong, especially with "a", "e", and "o". As in "a raw new bow"; it doesn't have its consonantal value in any of those words. I don't remember seeing it with "i" or "u" except in some proper names, but I may be forgetting some examples. St. WAPNIACL rings no bells with me. Nathan: I can't remember any time when Ozma came directly in contact with iron, but her interaction with the blacksmith Rusty Ore in HUNGRY TIGER certainly doesn't give any implication that she was afraid of it, as the fairies/elves are in some stories. (A very good series currently in progress that uses that thesis is Josepha Sherman's "Prince of the Sidhe" - THE SHATTERED OATH and FORGING THE RUNES being the two books that are out so far. I recommend them; I think most Oz fans who like adult fantasy would enjoy.) Craig: See my comment to Scott H. regarding Dorothy's hair color in WIZARD. Steve: I agree. The BUGLE has never looked better during the time I've been an IWOC member (since 1984). Bill Stillman is doing an excellent job all around, but the visual aspect is particularly fine. Tyler: I don't remember if THE WINGED MONKEYS mentioned the Golden Cap, but it certainly isn't used to command them in that book. Aaron: There are generic chapels in a lot of hospitals and airports and the like. Just quiet places for people to go to pray, whatever their religion, assuming that prayer is part of their religion. Maybe Scott's is of that genre. Ralph: Others have probably answered your question in Digests I haven't seen yet, but in case: Aside from Baum's describing the Munchkins Dorothy met early in WIZARD as unusually short, there's no information about physical differences in the inhabitants of the various parts of Oz, and later books frequently make even some Munchkins tall. The Gillikin (note spelling) country is supposed to be the wildest part of Oz, with more forests and mountains than the rest of Oz, and more wild animals. Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference, and there are both wild and agricultural areas in all quarters except the Emerald City area, which is all either agricultural or urban. If by "monitory" system you mean "monetary", Eric Gjovaag had an excellent article in the BAUM BUGLE a couple of issues back (I think the Spring 1996 issue) that covered the subject thoroughly. In some of the books there's a statement that money isn't used in Oz, but that seems to have lasted only a fairly short time, from Ozma's accession at the end of LAND until sometime before LOST KING. After that there are a number of references to money, with "ozzos" and "piozters" being two of the denominations. Scott H.: There is a cow named Imogene in Shanower's GIANT GARDEN, but it's not the cow of the stage WIZARD. I'm sure that Eric chose the name because of the cow in the play, though. And Sir Wiley Gyle appears in THE SPECKLED ROSE OF OZ, by Donald Abbott, from Emerald City Press - though IMHO it's the worst book ECP has published. I don't know enough about the play to know if he's similar to that one; in the book he's a relative of the WWE and WWW. Danny: Good luck with your book, too. Dave: The Woggle-bug said a great many things, but the question was asked in connection with QUEER VISITORS, not LAND. And that covers the Digests I've received so far, at least! (Boy, am I feeling isolated these days...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Re Jinjur: Coming from a family with strong pro-feminist feelings, I think that Jinjur had the right idea, but didn't know how to go about it in the best manner. Richard: I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the ways I've eaten it. About the wizards with nine lives: good point--especially since no one is supposed to age or die in Oz at all . . . Nathan: of the books--and Hollywood is well-known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it. Dave: Thanks for the clarification (about BCC fields). And I'm glad to see you've got your signature verse back. By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? --Jeremy Steadman, Oz enthusiast, Oz writer, Oz Digester (sorry) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 I think it is interesting to think about jinjur in modern terms. she is a sort of "feminazi," a radical feminist insistent upon getting even with men. This is the reason, I believe, Baum portrays her this way, suggesting that a 180- is as wrongheaded as anything else. There are some feminists like that today, and some of them are the loudest. I think he showed quite a bit of foresight in his parody. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:59:26 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Robin, please tell me you got my thich priority mail package!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:06:52 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Melody: I finally heard about your web page and went over to take a look. Your pictures are not showing on the screen, because your references to them are in error. You need to take out all the paths in the references and simply call the images directly. Yoicks: The hexadecimals are back. This has been a very weird time for the digest. Gordon: Your analysis of Jinjur's skirt is an interesting parallel to Edmund and Eustace commenting that girls lack an understanding of geography. I can dimly remember my grandmother admonishing me not to use my knife to scoop up food onto my fork, but I haven't thought of it in about 20 years. Scott: I've some people theorize that Jinjur divorced her unnamed husband, or that he was away on a journey (which, it must be admitted, is one of the oldest explanations around). quadrant differences: I seem to remember Baum mentioning that Munchkins like to wear little bells on their hats, but as other people have remarked, each little kingdom seems to contain its own culture and curiosities and their are little if any unifying trends that unite entire quadrants. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Table Manners of the Wizard (Ozzy Digest) 1) Gordon, there's a rule against using the knife to put peas and beans onto the fork? 2) Scott, Barry hypothesized that Jinjur and her husband divorced after _Ozma_. While the squirrel idea is interesting, it does seem a little far-fetched considering that Kaliko is not known to have any magic powers whatsoever. 3) Bear, concerning your notes on _Land_, 1) Dr. Pipt in _Patchwork Girl_ says he is the Crooked Magician who gave Mombi the Powder of Life. I presume that either he was living in the Gillikin Country at the time or Mombi lied about her destination and walked (or self-transformed into a bird and flew) to the Gillikin-Munchkin border. 2) Purple food may be unpalatable, but blue food is really unnatural. Considering that the national coloration isn't always present on things like trees, grass, and mud, maybe it varies with the magic flux. 4) Why shouldn't tailors have nine lives? 6) An solution to the problem of Ozma's changing hair coloring will appear in _Woozy_. 4) Jeremy, I'm not sure about Oz having unchanging weather, as most Oz books don't mention when the events take place (as far as I can recall). Surely it doesn't snow there (often, at any rate, excluding one or two nonhistorical cold spots), but I don't see why the temperature couldn't go as low as 15 or 10 C in winter. I have no idea how hot Oz gets in summer; at any rate, I don't remember any character complaining of heat. Also, Tip, probably did keep track of time while in Mombi's custody. He had to care for a garden, which means he had to be aware of the change in the seasons if he didn't want the crops to be frozen. Come to think of it, since the pumpkins in Mombi's garden were meant to be eaten by the four-horned cow during the winter, that would indicate that at least in pre-Ozmatic Oz there was a seasonal change in temperature. Otherwise the four-horned cow could keep on eating grass (which tends to die in the winter) all year. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 00:01:16 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Nathan wrote: >All right. Here's something that actually pertains to our BCF. Where do >people think the jackdaws' nest is located? Haff and Martin place it in >Aurissau, while Pendexter (in _Wooglet_) suggests that it is in New >Mexico... If the IWOC map says Aurissau, I go along...I don't think any of the party, being all magical beings except Tip, could have survived beyond Nonestica... David wrote: >So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's >already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a >particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed >so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. I second this request...Also, could someone please confim that my two packages of manuscripts were received OK...??? Now that our BCF is _Land_, I want to ask one of the "biggies" of Ozzy problems...Are Nikidik and Dr.Pipt the same bloke or not????? :) The Digest is "hexed" again???? That's *ALL* we need! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 3, 1997 (ADDENDUM) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 Re Jinjur: Coming from a family with strong pro-feminist feelings, I think that Jinjur had the right idea, but didn't know how to go about it in the best manner. Richard: I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the ways I've eaten it. About the wizards with nine lives: good point--especially since no one is supposed to age or die in Oz at all . . . Nathan: To me, the character of Mombi in the movie RTO was simply a bungling of the books--and Hollywood is well-known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it. Dave: Thanks for the clarification (about BCC fields). And I'm glad to see you've got your signature verse back. By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? --Jeremy Steadman, Oz enthusiast, Oz writer, Oz Digester (sorry) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 03 Apr 97 16:49:07 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy wrote to me: >I resent having my lines cut out! When I perform plays this annoys >me to no end (which is why I go on to no end--but that's not the >point). What I meant to say to Nathan was something to this effect... I found the missing line in Jeremy's message...This has happened before with single lines being dropped from people's messages, and I've been stumped at the cause...But today when I ran Jeremy's message through my Digest-generating program in "debugger" mode, I finally pinpointed the bug in the program that was causing the dropped lines and I fixed it. So above is Jeremy's message as it *should* have appeared in today's Digest. My apologies to Jeremy and to all others who have had lines dropped from their messages in the past...I don't think it will happen again... Sawhorse: Hey Dave! Will you stop knocking on me??!! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:37:34 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 > > Anyhow, Ozamaland's culture seems to derive from India (despite the > "Ozamandarin" title that sounds Chinese). So there may well have been Hindus > among the early immigrants from our world to Nonestica. > > Bob: > The Gumps of the comics certainly don't date back to 1825. It's a fairly > early comic strip, but it started, as nearly as I can figure from my source, > in 1911 or 1912. (So if there's any connection, it's Baum's Gump that > inspired the comic Gumps and not vice versa. It's not impossible; "The Gumps" > got its start in the Chicago Tribune.) Actually, though, Andy Gump wasn't > particularly foolish, and his Uncle Bim Gump was a billionaire. > All right: From the Oxford Enlgihs Dictionary (original edition): "Gump . . . dial and U.S. A foolish person, a dolt. [Earliest citation] 1825 JAMIESON, Suupl., Gump, a numskull; a term most generally applied to a female, conveying the idea a great stupidity." > > St. WAPNIACL rings no bells with me. > Nor with me. > > David Hulan > Why do you consider Ozamaland particularly Indian? > From: Dave Hardenbrook: > David wrote: > >So the competition in the Centennial Contest is very strong? (And that's > >already, with only the first seven MSS read.) Well, I hope that as soon as a > >particular MS is eliminated from consideration, its author will be informed > >so that he or she can attempt to place it elsewhere. > > I second this request...Also, could someone please confim that my two > packages of manuscripts were received OK...??? > We who are judges and read the Digest do not receive the MSS until all traces of the authors' identities are removed. One MS that arrived just before we received the first batch had the authors name on each page and John Fricke had the "fun" of removing the names. (We have not yet received that MS.) John supplies us a handwritten title page for each novel with no name attached. Anyhow, WE cannot tell you if your MSS have been received. As of now I have not received the second batch of MSS. As to when or whether the identities of the finalists will be announced, that is not something that Robin or I can determine. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:48:11 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Attachment Converted: "c:\Dave\Internet\Archive\AAOZ." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:04:52 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 David, Unfortunately I have seen real pornography. I know the reason you think Barnstormer is not pornographic is because it is not truly explicit. However, the definition of pornography given in mass media studies is broad enought that that scene in Barnstormer could be considered pornographic. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:11:44 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Aaron: Don't blame me for the squirrel. It was Ralph's idea! --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Nikidik and Pipt are not the same person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was watching Stephen Ketten's industrial film _Workteams & The Wizard of Oz_, which uses scenes from the MGM movie as a metaphor for team struggle, and I found what people are calling a hanged man. After Dorothy tells Nick that he would be no worse off than if he hadn't gone, we hear the Witch cackle, and there is a swish-pan to the witch, followed quickly by a cut to a medium shot of her. Before this cut, there is what appears to be , at the corner of Nick's roof, a man hanging from one of the trees. However, on a freeze frame, one can see this is an optical illusion created by the wind moving through the branches. --Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:26:08 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Scott: Did you mail the thing to *ME*? It should have been mailed to the NYC P.O. Box where John Fricke would take care of it. I don't have the time now to respond to the rest of the DIGEST. My server was down yesterday.... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 16:16:20 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I tried to revive Bilbil in a story that I wrote. In this story, the Wizard used his Extractor (that cap that he used on Jenny Jump) to remove Bilbil's personality (or is that goatality?) from Bobo. The story wasn't very good, but I think that Bilbil is a character who deserves revival at least as much as Tip and Locasta. Jeremy: It's tailors, not wizards, who are mentioned in _Land_ as having nine lives. Also, death might have existed in Oz during the time of _Land_. I think you left out a line, if not a few lines, in your message to me. Tyler: Yoicks? Does the Master of Foxhounds read this Digest? Aaron: The idea that Jinjur divorced her husband might make the most sense, but it would be the first time that I heard of a divorce in Oz. They don't seem to be very common there. I believe that, in _Emerald City_, Baum states that the Ozian climate is quite stable. Also, in _Enchanted Island_, Humpty states that "Flowers have no season in Oz." It is likely that there are some changes between the seasons, however. In addition to the references in _Land_, Snufferbux (in _Ojo_) is given the bandits' cave as a place to hibernate in the winter. As for snow, Thompson states that there is no snow in Oz in _Grampa_, but this must exclude places like Snow Mountain, Icetown, and the Link. Dave: My opinion on whether Pipt and Nikidik are the same varies. Right now, I would say that they are two different people. I can't think of my reasons for this at the moment. I'd like to see what other people think about this one. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 Earl: Life, too, is seen in =3D. However, the 4-03 Digest wasn't. (Luckily.) Re the Jackdaws' nest: Nathan, you suggest that although the Scarecrow thinks it is in the Great Outside Wirld, it may actually be in another part of Nonestica, but I sense an element of doubt in your posting. Personally, I think it very likely, since anywhere outside the Munchkin Country must be the "Great Outside World" to him. Re my comment to Nathan: I resent having my lines cut out! When I perform plays this annoys me to no end (which is why I go on to no end--but that's not the point). What I meant to say to Nathan was something to this effect: "RTO's Mombi / Languidere seems to me no more than a pure mangling of the books--and Hollywood is well known for that. I think we can get no further meaning out of it." Dave, when are we going to stop having the words taken right out of our mouths (keyboards)? Tyler: Re bells on caps--perhaps Baum meant that the average Munchkin that our friend Dorothy met wore bells; the little kingdoms within Munchkinland would still have their own quirks and customary dress. Aaron: Hmmm ... I'd always envisioned Oz as a sort of Camelot where the weather is always pleasant--that it never changes much at all. I do like your idea better, though. Re Nikidik vs. Dr. Pipt: I don't know--perhaps they're sort of a Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde enigma. I do know, however, which one is responsible for my stomach problems. That would be Dr. Pipt, who is forever trying to get me to drink his vile potion, Pipt-o-Dismal! --Jeremy Steadman, PhilOzopher at Large ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:59:19 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Levels of smut: I want to echo what David said yesterday and repeat something I have said many times before. Farmer (and Laumer) have written books that are clearly adult novels and they do contain sexual references, but they do not come anywhere near the definition of "pornography". Believe me, there are things out there that make Farmer and Laumer look like Barney the dinosaur. What happens is that people hear that word associated with Farmer and Laumer and assume that the books are full of hard-core explicit graphical descriptions of sexual activity, and this is not the case. OTOH, if you get these Oz books hoping for this, you will be disappointed. Jeremy: Actually, it was a tailor that had nine lives, according to the Woggle Bug in _Land_. Also, this happened before Ozma ascended the throne and there is plenty of evidence in and out of the FF to suggest that there was aging and death in Oz before that event. The tailor's name, according to the non-FF and non-HACCurate _How the Wizard Saved Oz_ was Obo. Aaron and Dave: Somebody wrote an article in the _Bugle_ concerning the identity of Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik. Some think that they are the same person, and that Dr. Nikidik, for some unknown reason, had to flee the Gillikin country and change his name. Others suggest that Pipt merely got the box from another wizard, never noticed the false bottom, and traded it away to Mombi. I favor the latter theory. Jackdaw's Nest: For pretty much the same reasons as Dave, it is highly likely that the nest was in Nonestica just the other side of the desert. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:11:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-02-97 LAND: Baum's chauvinistic description of Jinjur was apparently meant as an affectionate dig at his mother-in-law, a major in the suffragette movement. RTO Mombi:Yes, Disney most definitely and deliberately combined Mombi and Languidere. They comboed lots from LAND and OZMA. I remember several IWOC members arguing (fairly politely, but quite determinedly) with Gary Kurtz, the movie's producer when he previewed material from the film for us at a convention...1984, I guess. The purist Ozzies were unhappy with the mixing of elements. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:33:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-03-97 David: Tourmaline comes in a red variety (Rubellite). Perhaps that's what Baum was thinking. Aaron: Other than ROAD, which takes place in August, and MAGIC (same), if an Oz book has a reference to a time setting, it's almost always going to be in spring...frequently May. I used to mark my Oz books with notations of seasons. And with colored-in illos. And with crayoned stripes,etc., covering some of the pages. And with crayon or marker inside the "o's" on a given page. SHUDDER! Contestants: We haven't worked out details of notification yet. Your concerns sound reasonable to me. Yes, many of the first seven were quite good. Today I received another dozen mss. Neither Steve nor I know whose mss have been received. If we did, it might invalidate the anonymity of some of them. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 21:59:33 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls EARL - "the 48-sow run" This sounds like some type of Arkansas outdoor event! :) Dave and David - It is beyond me why we can't select a day, like the last day of the month or something as the standard, regular, cast in concrete day to start discussion of the BCF. Then there is never a question. Sigh. Some of us just need more order in our lives. Comments? Jeremy - cooking hint of the week. Put your asparagus in the microwave, in a dish covered with saran wrap for about 6 minutes on high (depends on the amount - you may need to experiment a bit). Color is retained as is the crispness. Mushy asparagus is yuk! Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 19:47:40 -0800 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Correction in today's Ozzy Digest Digesters, > I have trouble with asparagus of any color--it's just too mushy the > ways I've eaten it. Personally, asparagus is one of my all time favorites. I wait anxiously for the first crop of spring all winter long. If you've found it too mushy, it's been cooked too long. The more tender spears are delicious raw. > By the way, what are CC fields for anyway? The CC (Courtesy Copy) is just that, a message to the primary recipient with a copy to another. Both parties are aware that each other has received a copy. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 23:10:21 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Is there someone we could E-mail or ( Horrors! :) ) Snail-Mail like maybe IWOC@neosoft.com who could confirm that our manuscripts were received? The only reason I don't set a "cast in concrete" date to begin a new BCF is because I want to conversation to flow naturally without any shackles... Could Nikidik and Pipt be related, like father-son or something? Once again, I apologize to the AOLers who have had so much trouble getting the Digest... (They're showing a "We at AOL are working to improve our services" TV ad as I write this... :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:34:24 -0800 (PST) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 4/4 Digest, Bear mentions my typo of <"the 48-sow run" This sounds like some type of Arkansas outdoor event! :) > Bear, I sincerely hope not; I know of nothing good that has come out of Arkansas in recent times. I think that the "sow run" mistype was a Freudian slip on my part and must refer to Roseanne. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:25:42 -0500 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digests Dave: Things are looking up! Received the 4/3 Digest yeaterday, and the 4/2 edition today. Thanks. Also downloaded today's (4/4) from your web site. I'm still missing the 3/28 thru 4/1 Digests, but rather than add to your problems, I'll see if someone else can send me those copies. To my former fellow AOLers, come on over to AT&T! No busy signals, no waiting, no getting cut off without warning. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:40:04 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Nikidik/Pipt: There are several references in the FF indicating that they are one and the same person. All I remember now is that they deal with who Mombi got the Powder of Life from. Pornography in Oz: No, I wouldn't classify Farmer and Laumer stuff as "porn," but I do think it's full of cheap shots. Kinda like "Whee! Looka what *I* can get away with!" I haven't read _Barnstormer_ in many years but, IIRC, it tells me all-too-clearly the relative size of the protagonist's genitalia as compared to the Ozian equivalent. Maybe not porn, but... Bear: Funny you should mention how to nuke asparagus. I was planning to experiment with some of that lovely, abundant, relatively cheap asparagus that's flooding our markets lately. I assume you mean 6 min. on high? I'm gonna try it with a bit of water in the bottom of a shallow container to sort of steam it a bit. BTW, did you know that artichokes nuke pretty well? Try 6-8 min. on high. Again, you'll need to experiment. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:51:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Olderman Subject: MS CONTEST--OZZY DIGEST Dave-- John Fricke says that he's received 31 mss so far. I thought some of the DIGESTERS might want to know that. Good luck, everyone! --Robin Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:47:27 +0500 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Content-id: <23_78_1_860161647> 1) Since no one seems to remember old St. Wapniacl any more.... State Treasury War Attorney General Postmaster General Navy Interior Agriculture Commerce Labor ...the names (for most of the first half of this century) of the cabinet departments in order of their creation, and therefore the order of succession after the Vice-President. (The provision inserting the Speaker of the House and the President Pro-tem of the Senate before the cabinet is also recent.) 2) I always supposed the mishmash of "Land" and "Ozma" that is "Return" was a (more or less) honorable attempt by Disney to get past the -- errr -- unsuitable character of Jinjur while still leaving the state of affairs at the end suitable for further films along canonical lines. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:36:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Speaking of missing lines, apparently Dave can no longer receive anything I send as an enclosure. Fortunately, the too-much-typing aches-and-pains that had been plaguing me the past several months have finally pretty much yielded to exercise (plus time plus some medication), and I can face the idea of re-typing a composed letter with equanimity. To repeat what I said yesterday: David Hulan: As you say, Denslow didn't draw Dorothy as either blonde or brunette. (Dictionary definition of brunette is not brown-haired but dark-brown-haired.) I suppose "chestnut" is a reasonable description, although I think of chestnut as more of a distinctly "red" (which in hair terms is more like orange) shade. Denslow's Dorothy looks to me more like a "Jeanie with the light brown hair" shade. On tourmaline -- it looks as if Baum must have been familiar mainly with the pink kind. There's a Tourmaline among the Pinks in "Sky Island," I think. Scott Hutchins: Before comparing Jinjur to "feminazis," you need to find some to compare her to. The term was invented as a pejorative, and as it is actually used, it means any "feminist" and expresses the user's discomfort with the theory that women should be paid comparably to men for comparable work and that society should try to get set up to make it possible for both women and men to participate in both raising families and in earning livings.Most feminists do want to "get even" with men in that sense, but you presumably mean "get even" in the sense of "pay back oppression with equal oppression." Who are these "loud" examples you have in mind, and have you read what they wrote, or are you going on summaries by biased observers? As Gordon Birrell said, it is unfortunate that Baum's characterization of Jinjur played and plays "into the hands of those who would dismiss the feminist movement as a peevish and petty revolt against the natural order of things." (By the way, you asked for suggestions on what happened to Jinjur's husband, as he isn't seen in later books. There's no reason why anything should have happened to him. He doesn't even need to be off on a journey or divorced, the suggestions Tyler Jones mentioned. He is, obviously, a quiet fellow, and is probably still there and still inclined to avoid getting involved in active sorts of activities.) Gordon Birrell on why Jinjur's uniform does not arrange the Oz colors geographically: Possibly she was thinking aesthetically (she is characterized in later books as something of an artist), and thought blue and purple looked better separated by red and yellow, rather than having two cool colors together and two warms. Dave Hardenbrook on whether Dr. Pipt and Dr. Nikidik are the same person: Sure, why not? Going on foot from mid-north-Gillikin country to a Munchkinland destination may seem to call for a longer time en route than it took Mombi, but, as Aaron pointed out, the magician might have been living in the Gillikin country at the time, or Mombi might have gone part of the way by magic. It's been suggested that he changed his name from Nikidik to Pipt (possibly in staging a supposed death, as he was reported dead in "Road"). But I'm inclined to think that his full name was Nikidik Pipt, and that he didn't stage his death, but just moved (out of the Gillikin country?) on short notice and was supposed dead. He might have moved, as has been suggested, in hopes of avoiding Ozma's ban on unauthorized magic, but it might have been something unrelated. (Possibly he worried that dealing with Mombi was a dangerous sort of occupation, and he headed out of Gillikin territory about the same time Tip did, and for a similar reason?) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:43:46 -0600 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Oz in the media: There's a new commercial being aired for Program, an anti-flea pill for dogs and cats. The background scenery is immediately identifiable as Munchkinland from the MGM movie, and a group of dogs and cats perform "Ding, Dong, the Witch is Dead" in barks and meows over subtitles that translate the animal sounds into human language ("Ding, dong, the fleas are dead," etc, etc,). BTW: as the owner of four dogs, including two golden retrievers that used to be in agony over flea bites, I can confirm that Program really works. It's not cheap, but it certainly beats having to spray noxious chemicals inside and outside the house every month, and it's far more effective than any spray or flea collar. More on eating beans with a knife: Margaret Visser takes up this problem in _The Rituals of Dinner_ (Harper Collins, 1991). Turns out that the fork as we know it today was relatively late to evolve; the earlier version, still in widespread use in the nineteenth century, resembled the carving fork of today, with just two widely spaced tines. The late-nineteenth-century table knife, on the other hand, generally had a wide blade, rounded at the end and shaped like a spatula--unlike the tapered knives of today (you can still see this shape in old flatware sets). Visser refers to the "fork revolution" that occurred when the modern model with four tines was introduced in the nineteenth century: at that point it became possible to pick up the food and gracefully bring it to one's mouth without the danger of grievous bodily injury (as would be the case with the old fork) or the appearance of shovelling the food into one's mouth (as would be the case if you piled up the beans--not green beans, but baked beans--on the flat knife). As a result of the ongoing etiquette war between the fork and the knife, the knife was eventually demoted to a cutting function only, and people like Emily Post were quite firm in stating that the knife should never be used for any other function, such as piling food onto the fork, and should never under *any* circumstances be actually brought to the mouth. So the Wizard, by eating beans with his knife, would be revealing his ignorance of the new polite and sophisticated table manners. My hunch is that rural America held on to the old ways much longer than the city folk, and that's why it's amusing that the Scarecrow, in all innocence, attempts to defend the Wizard's eating habits by saying "Maybe that's the polite way to eat in Omaha." Warning about e-mail: Unless you have a very good anti-viral program going, it's a good idea not to open attachments to e-mail these days, since they may very well contain the widespread MS Concept virus. This virus specifically attacks Microsoft Word and affects its ability to save documents properly (it turns everything into a template). --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:44:26 -0800 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 09:48:11 -0600 (CST) > From: Ruth Berman > Subject: ozzy digest > X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 > X-POPMail-Charset: English > > Attachment Converted: "c:\Dave\Internet\Archive\AAOZ." > > ====================================================================== Whatever the attachment was we did not receive it, and I checked web page and it isn't there either! > Is there someone we could E-mail or ( Horrors! :) ) Snail-Mail > like maybe IWOC@neosoft.com who could confirm that our manuscripts > were received? > > > -- Dave > The person you could snail mail to inquire if your MS was received is John Fricke, 301 West 45th Street, Apt. 16K, New York, NY 10036. Enclose a stamped, self-addressed envelope. As Robin mentioned we received boxes from John yesterday. They contained 13 new full length MSS, ranging from 151 to 269 pages, with a total of 2680 pages. From what I have heard there are at least 11 more MSS to come, making a total of over 31 full length books. We three first round judges have our work cut out for us. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:02:14 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest continued X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16 X-POPMail-Charset: English Come to think of it, it's odd that Dave apparently didn't receive the cc: I sent him a few days back (a shorter message that I did do directly on e-mail). That was an answer to Alayne1@aol.com who had asked about finding "Wizard of Oz" script to use to "motivate" her students. Has anyone been taking the responsibility to tell the people who ask versions of this question the address of Witmark? Anyhow, what I wrote her was: You'll probably hear from some Oz Club fans who have exact address of Witmark, who publish the version of the "Wizard of Oz" play which is most often preformed (the one based on the movie with some dreary added humor to pad it out to play-length). Samuel French company, back in the 20's, published a version which would be better in terms of reading aloud, as it doesn't have songs. It's out of print, but you might be able to find it in a library. I wanted to suggest, though, that you might be better off just sticking with Baum's book itself. It's more easily available than playscripts would be, and probably available in cheaper editions, and it is better written than the adaptations. And the kids might feel moved to more reading if they realize that the story is actually a narrative, and that sequels are also available at libraries and bookstores. Of course, if the idea is to read aloud, having the kids take parts, it's easier to see one's own part in script form. Budget permitting, you might want both play and narrative. But I did want to put in a word for the Original. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Some other comments -- A couple of reviews that might interest people: The Spring "Minnesota History" (Minnesota Historical Society, 345 Kellogg Blvd W, St. Paul MN 55102-1906, individual copy $3 + $3 postage) has a review by Barbara Handy-Marchello of Nancy Tystad Koupal's edition of Baum's "Our Landlady." Part of what she says is: "Koupal has written an informative introduction .... Koupal has provided excellent notes to the text that relate events at the boardinghouse to historic events in Aberdeen and elsewhere and connect the text to other of Baum's literary works. The annotation enhances both the historic value of the book as well as the humor, as we come to know the people and events of Aberdeen through the eyes of Sairy Bilkins." The March issue of "Mythprint" (monthly newsletter of the Mythopoeic Society, individual copy price not listed, but at $12.50/year, perhaps $1.50 plus $1 postage would be accepted; Mythopoeic Soc. Orders Dept, 1008 N Monterey, Alhambra CA 91801) has review by Eleanor M. Farrell of Gregory Mguire's "Wicked." Part of what she says is: "I really liked this book.... I'm curious whether fans of the Oz stories would hate this book. My own picture of Oz is the MGM version, with gorgeously wicked Margaret Hamilton cackling as she takes off on her broom. Since I never read Baum's books as a child, I picked up a couple of them after reading Maguire's book to compare descriptions, characters, and details. I found these readings (perhaps perversely) complementary, rather than contradictory. The Baum fan contingent may disagree, but I could quite comfortably put "Wicked" on the same shelf with the original Oz books." (If some of you would like to send her Baum fan reactions -- I haven't read Maguire's book, so probably won't -- Eleanor M. Farrell is also the editor of "Mythprint," and her address is 4150 Lawton Str #3, SF CA 94122. The same issue has my review of Eloise McGraw's "The Moorchild," which is similar to what I said about it in the Ozzy Digest, but somewhat longer. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I second your feeling of being isolated. Is everyone else on AOL having the same problem? I agree that Dorothy appears to have chestnut colored hair in the BoW _Wizard_ color plates. My dictionary describes chestnut as a "reddish brown." However, I've always divided the world into blondes, brunettes and redheads, and I have (perhaps mistakenly) classified all brown-haired people as brunettes. Since chestnut is a reddish brown and not a brownish red, I consider Denslow's Dorothy to be a brunette. In any event, she's certainly not a blonde. I raised this issue in the first place because I was wondering why Neill changed Ozma's hair color between _Land_ and _Ozma_. The only explanation I've ever heard was that he did it in order to prevent confusion when drawing Ozma next to Dorothy. I simply pointed out that if Neill had kept Dorothy's dark hair, he wouldn't have had to change Ozma's light hair. The most plausible explanation to me is that Neill originally drew Ozma in _Land_ as a blonde because blondes were considered more beautiful. Then when it was time to draw Dorothy in _Ozma_, he made her a blonde for the same reason. Later when he had to picture them together, he must have decided to switch Ozma's hair color -- perhaps because the red poppies in her hair would contrast more attractively if she were a brunette. Book of the Moment: I'm already forgetting the details of _Land_. I suggest that Dave choose an official starting date when people seem to be ready for the next book. Then we should stick with it. _Land of Oz_: I'll add my voice to the chorus confused about counting to 17 by 2's. I must have thought I would look stupid if I admitted to not understanding what must be simple to a child. So I said nothing. Instead, I showed my spoiled pumpkinhead by asking the obvious question about Jack's head! _Barnstormer_: I'm about halfway through it and enjoying it immensely. IMO it's far superior to _Wicked_. If Farmer's other work is of the same quality, I can understand why he's such a popular science fiction writer. BTW I don't think either book comes close to being pornography. Anxiously wondering when and whether I'll receive the next Ozzy Digest, Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:31:27 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) Re: The Land of Oz (fwd) anyone know of any web sites for this?/ In article <860095239.2453@dejanews.com>, jctully@concentric.net wrote: >Hi all. I was skimming through some of the archives of a few years back >and came across the "worst cartoon ever" thread. I'm looking for some >info on one that certainly would have qualified. I THINK it was called >"The Land of Oz(It's a funny funny place) Does anyone remember this >gawd-awful cartoon? The characters were Dandy Lion, Socrates Scarecrow, >and Rusty the Tin Man. Any web sites out there with screen shots/audio >clips? The theme song went something like this... "They're three sad souls Oh me! Oh my 'No Brain! No Heart! He's much too shy!' But never mind you three Here's the Wizard as you can see He'll fix that one-two-three In that funny land that's the world of Oz! Oh the world of Oz is a funny funny place Where everyone wears a funny funny face All the streets are paved with gold And no one ever grows old In this funny land lives the Wizard of Oz!" There are no web sites that I've come across...but it isn't as if I've gone looking, either. For anyone interested, THE WIZARD OF OZ was an animated Rankin-Bass series that ran (at least when I saw it) with the stop-motion series THE NEW ADVENTURES OF PINOCCHIO. Both series are probably no better or worse than most of the drek that passes for childrens' television these days. But I have a certain fondness for them, because they're just so strange... The only time I've ever seen either series was on a Canadian television station, and the narrator for THE NEW ADVENTURES OF PINOCCHIO seemed to have a distinctly Canadian accent. Does anyone know if this was originally produced for Canadian television, or if it aspects of it were customized for different markets? BRIAN/brian@interactive.net ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:43:21 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests Well, I got the 3/26, 4/2, and 4/3 Digests today. I don't know if this is attributable to my turning off the AOL Spam Filter or to the fact that they seem to have been sent me as an individual rather than part of a group. Another day or so might tell. If I continue to have problems with the Spam Filter turned off, I'm going to change Internet providers. This is Not Acceptable. 3/26: Most of the comments I would have made on this one are old hat by now, but I'll check and see if there's anything still hanging... Aaron: BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN sounds good. I ordered it from BEOO quite a while back, but still haven't received that one. (I think it's the only one left from my order that hasn't arrived.) Robin: >Above all, enjoy this time. It's one of the very best of your life. Savor >the happy anticipation. Yeah, Craig, savor the happy anticipation. Because then you'll get into the poopy diapers and 2 AM colic and... (Just kidding. Well, sort of; there -will- be the poopy diapers, and may be the 2 AM colic, but the pleasure far exceeds the annoyances.) Tyler: I don't think any of the adult women in Baum's books speak in baby-talk. I wouldn't even call Dorothy's speech in the OZMA-EC books "baby-talk" - just poor diction. She doesn't lisp or do the Elmer Fudd-like "w" for "r" and "l"; she mostly elides syllables, and occasionally mispronounces words like "gurgles" for "gargoyles". (Tot in DOT AND TOT talks baby-talk. Button-Bright in ROAD sometimes does.) Ruth: Good point about Dorothy thinking Notta was trying to attack her. When confronted by an apparent witch who's possibly making magical gestures at oneself, the best way to avoid finding oneself a frog or an ornament or something of the sort is probably a bucket of water. Dave: For that matter, "Io" and "Jo" are the same in Latin, and were the same in English for quite a long time. I don't remember exactly when "J" became favored for the consonantal use of the letter, but I believe it was the 15th or 16th century. I know I've seen photographs of printed texts in English in which, e.g., "Jesus" was spelled "Iesus", so the change postdates the beginning of printing. It's been too long since I read (or even saw a film of) LITTLE WOMEN to know; usually "Jo" is a nickname for "Josephine" or "Joanne", but if Jo March really had that as her full name, it's quite possible that a classically-inclined parent had "Io" in mind in naming her. 4/2: Gordon: I don't know about a "rule" about using a knife to shovel one's peas or beans onto the fork - to be honest, the idea never occurred to me. Or maybe I tried it once when I was too young to remember and was told so firmly not to that it's become a repressed memory. Do people use knives to push beans onto a fork? Seems awkward to me - either I have to eat left-handed or the knife and fork are in the wrong hands. Danny: It's true that the Winkies include some excellent tinsmiths, but one shouldn't forget that Ku-Klip himself is a Munchkin. And there are many farmers in the Winkie country. There may be minor differences in emphasis among the four quadrants of Oz, but I think they're more alike than different. Bear: Most asparagus has a purplish cast at the tips. I suspect that Baum's giving tailors nine lives may be an allusion to the saying, "Nine tailors make a man." My memory on the subject is rather vague at this point, but I believe that in English villages it was customary to ring the largest church bell nine times to mark the death of an adult male (there were different numbers of rings for females and children), and that the largest bell (if there was more than one) was called the "tailor". (That was the origin of the title of Dorothy Sayers' classic mystery centered around bell-ringing, THE NINE TAILORS.) That, at least, would be where I'd start researching if I wanted to determine why Baum associated nine lives with tailors as opposed to some other occupation. It's possible that the Great Sandy Waste along the southern border of Oz wasn't as deadly as the Deadly Desert along the western border; that's the only one that's definitely recorded as destroying all living flesh to touch it. I don't think there's even evidence that the GSW gives off toxic fumes, as we know the Shifting Sands to the east and the Impassable Desert to the north do (from MAGIC and SILVER PRINCESS respectively). Tyler: I guess it may depend on your definition of "brunette"; I've always thought of the term as applying to people whose hair is black or such a dark brown that it looks black in most lights. Neill drew Ozma as a brunette in the books after LAND, and Trot as a brunette in the books after SCARECROW (although both initially appear as blondes). But the hair of brunettes is generally drawn in b/w as a solid black mass with occasional white streaks to give it texture, as that of blondes is left white with a black outline and an occasional internal line for texture. Hair that's drawn with lots of fine lines (as Denslow's Dorothy) usually means red or light brown hair. Omby Amby's mention that the Munchkins and Gillikins are good fighters is in response to the Tin Woodman's saying that if he'd been allowed to arm and drill his Winkies they could have put up a good fight, so it would seem that the Winkies might be good fighters as well (though they don't show it in WIZARD - but then, they probably would have much higher morale fighting for Nick and Ozma than for the WWW). And Glinda's formidable army of girls is presumably mostly from the Quadling country. Jeremy: There's probably more than one Borders in Atlanta. But that's a long enough trip for you that even if you preferred that approach, it would probably be cheaper for you to order direct from BoW. I, on the other hand, have a Borders a couple of miles from me, and I visit it every 2-3 weeks anyhow (if for no other reason, to see if they've sold their other copy of GLASS CAT yet). But I've decided to Support My Non-Local Oz Publisher and order from BoW anyhow. That Tip's ague "last year" might have been a little longer ago than that is possible, but it surely wasn't several hundred years earlier. As others have pointed out, living on a farm keeps one pretty well in tune with the passing seasons, even if there isn't anything like a severe winter in Oz. Unless it's near the equator or on a planet with no axial tilt, there will at least be variations in the length of daylight. 4/3: Nathan: I agree with Haff and Martin (and Dave); the jackdaws' nest is almost certainly on the continent of Nonestica. First, as Dave says, it's unlikely that any of the adventurers but Tip would survive in the Great Outside World. Second, they simply didn't fly long enough - the Gump isn't that fast (we know that he flies slower than the Sawhorse runs). Me: A line got lost in my comment about Baum's description of Ozma's lips. It should have read: "Oddly, he said her lips were 'tinted like a tourmaline,' which is pretty ambiguous. Tourmalines come in a variety of colors, and in fact most I've seen were bluish-green." Jeremy: I never liked asparagus as a boy growing up in the South, myself. Overcooking vegetables is unfortunately pretty common in Southern cooking. Asparagus should be steamed for about 3-5 minutes; then it's crisp and very tasty. I find it somewhat ironic that the vegetables I hated most growing up - broccoli, brussels sprouts, green beans, asparagus - are the ones I like best now. And the whole secret is not overcooking them. (I will admit that I still draw the line at okra.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 14:28:17 -0800 From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Jeremy: I would be inclined to believe that the jackdaws' nest is in Nonestica. In fact, the only disagreement to this that I have seen was in Pendexter's book. According to _Hidden Valley_, some Gillikins also wear bells on their caps. Maybe they were influenced by Munchkin fashions. Tyler: According to Fred Otto's short story "The Wogglebug's New Clothes," which appeared in the 1987 (I think) Oziana, the tailor's name is Stichwell J. Threadneedle. Robin: Apparently Baum had been familiar with a pinkish sort of tourmaline, since he made Tourmaline the Queen of the Pinkies in _Sky Island_. _Wonder City_ begins in August, since we are told that Jenny Jump arrives in the Emerald City on Ozma's birthday. Also, if we accept the statement in _Masquerade_ that Betsy Bobbin was born on 31 October, this would be the starting date for _Hungry Tiger_. -- Nathan Mulac DeHoff lnvf@grove.iup.edu or vovat@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ "Thinking causes all the trouble out of the world." -Kachewka "A kinglet without a sceptre is nothing but a flibberjig." -The Blunderer "Oz? Is that a place or a tonic?" -Humpy "I'm not responsible for the absurd things that happen in your country, and when you're in Mo you must do as the Momen do." -The Bumpy Man "If your heads were stuffed with straw, like mine, you would probably all live in the beautiful places, and then Kansas would have no people at all. It is fortunate for Kansas that you have brains." -The Scarecrow "In ancient countries prisoners were thrown to the wild beasts. Now I call that very neat. No fuss or worry, and practically no expense." -Ippty "Having an Emperor's spirit wished upon you is no joke, Tappy. It's a blinking bore!" -The Scarecrow ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:35:33 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz BCF: I notice that in _Land_ when our friends escape from the Emerald City and head to the Tin Woodman's castle, Baum describes that the castle is near a small town. There is Even a small illo of it in the chapter heading. I am at the office right now, so I can't Refer to the book, and I forgot if Baum mentioned that the castle was in the town or Next to it. I am working under the assumption that at this time the Woodman was still living in The old castle of the WWW. According to the non-FF _Tin Castle_, the tin castle is Built soon after this story. This town was not mentioned in WIZARD, but the arrival and departure was not under Normal terms, so perhaps Baum did not need to mention it. Can anybody remember if this town has been mentioned anywhere else in or out of the FF? In Farmer's and Laumer's non-HACCurate writings, this town is referred to as Winkiezia. Aaron, I believe, is also using this name in his magic machine series. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:21:14 -0500 (EST) From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Picking the Digest off Dave's Web page is a lot less convenient than getting it in E-mail, but it's a lot better than not getting it at all. Come next Tuesday I may well have a new Internet address. Grrrr. Steve: >Why do you consider Ozamaland particularly Indian? I just got that sort of impression from it - the kind of procession they had, the elephants, that kind of thing. Plus the Old Man of the Jungle seemed much more Hindu-like than any other culture. It's not as strong an impression as the Arabic impression one gets from Jinnicky's domain, but it certainly doesn't seem European or Chinese or Arabic, and it's not inconsistent with Indian. Scott H.: Never having taken mass media studies (they'd never heard of such a thing when I was in college) I don't know what their definition of pornography is. I do know that BARNSTORMER has nothing in it that would have caused me the slightest concern if my daughter had wanted to read it when she was 13. If it's pornographic, then so is about half the adult (meaning as opposed to children's, not as sold in "adult" bookstores) fiction being published today. (And so was about a third of the adult fiction being published in 1950. It's certainly no more pornographic than the historical novels of Frank Yerby or Lawrence Schoonover.) As I said, if it were a film it would be somewhere on the borderline between PG-13 and R. Nathan: Bilbil is a much more fully-developed character than Locasta (or Tattypoo, for that matter), though no more so than Tip. Reviving him would be much more difficult, though, unless the magician who enchanted him was also using the Switcheroo Spell and there's a goat somewhere in Oz who had a few years of living in the body of a handsome prince... Though there would need to be a lamb and an ostrich and a Tottenhot and a Mifket involved as well. Hmmm...if I were just going to write another Oz book anytime soon I might think about that as a plot device. But I'm planning to shift gears from Oz for a while in my writing; I have a lot of other stories I want to tell, just like LFB, and unlike his case there's nobody clamoring for me to write "more about Oz". (I'll continue to write short Oz items, but not another book-length story for a couple of years at least.) It's true that we don't hear much about divorce in Oz, but then we don't see that much of the lives of most Ozites, either. The great majority of characters we meet are either exotics who don't even marry, much less divorce, or children. The few marriages we see are almost all royal (at least in one of the petty "kingdoms"), and it's always been much more difficult for a member of a royal family to get a divorce, even in our world. Divorce is probably much less common in Oz than in the modern US, since there's a lot less stress in Oz, but I can imagine that being married to Jinjur might be pretty stressful. My feeling is that Nikidik and Pipt are two different people, but that Pipt was the one who made the Powder of Life in all three books where it appears, even though the way it works is different in each book. (In LAND there's the Weaugh-Teaugh-Peaugh incantation, with gestures, much like the charm on the Golden Cap. In ROAD Dyna has to wish her bear alive. In PATCHWORK GIRL the powder just has to be sprinkled.) There's no evidence at all that Pipt has the level of magical power that would let him create Nikidik's Wishing Pills, and quite a bit that he doesn't. Those pills have to be somewhere in the 7-8 range on Dave's Scale of Magic, and Pipt doesn't seem to be higher than a 5 at best. Robin: I know that tourmaline comes in a red version, and I'm sure that's what Baum was thinking of - but it's far from the only, or even the commonest, color of tourmaline, which makes it, as I said, ambiguous. It's as if he said "the color of a chess piece". Sure, many sets have red men - but they all have white, and many have other colors for the non-white side (which is conventionally called "black"). Dave: I think that John Fricke is the one who picks up the MSS at the PO Box in NYC. But since he's on AOL, you may not be able to reach him by E-mail... (You could try: JohnFricke@aol.com.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:47:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-04-97 Dave: I liked the way you put yesterday's Digest in your web site--that was clever. If necessary, perhaps you should put them all there--but I'd rather we got AOL better instead (I know I've used that joke before, but it bears repeating, if not in its entirety). Seriously, I hope AOL does get fixed, for the sake of those who can't Digest things as well as is . . . Re the idea that Dr. Pipt got the box in question from "another wizard"--namely Nikidik: Perhaps; however, FF descriptions of the two are awfully similar . . . One problem with letting the discussion of LAND be postponed too long is that we may need to get it Gump-started. (I just had to . . .) Re Oz in America: Note the common-placedness of Jinjur ale. Dave again: Wow! I've never been the cause of someone's FIXING a problem before! You make me sound . . . heroic! That said, I'll promptly forget all about it, like I do everything else. Seriously, I'm glad to hear I was the straw that made the camel's back better again. --Jeremy Steadman, Novice Solution Source P.S. I know Baum was fond of puns, but I do realize I go overboard a bit . . . (Note how I'm ending everything on an elliptical orbit today.) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:17:33 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ozmaland: Some may consider it based on India due to its jungle and elephant connection, but we saw so little of it in _Captain Salt_ that we can't really be too sure. Nathan: "Yoicks" is a term that is simliar to "Yikes" although I can't for the life of me remember where I first heard it. "We offered the world ORDER!": One reason that a set date is not feasible for the changing-of-the-guard of the BCF is that some books are more complicated than others, needing more discussions. Also, interpretations may differ more or less as we move through the FF. The best way is to just take it as it comes. Nikidik and Pipt: It is possible, of course, that the two are related, although there is no evidence for it one way or the other in or out of the FF. Currently, I favor the theory that Nikidik was another Wizard who at one time traded with Pipt and accidentally gave a box with wishing pills to him. Pipt never noticed and gave the box to Mombi. AOL: Based on all the problems AOL is having lately, I am very disturbed by a rumor that they are going to buy CompuServe. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 00:34:57 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZZY FAQ: I have made a few small changes in the Digest, in sections 1.1 and 1.3, which deals with the "rules" for posting messages to the Digest...I would appreciate everyone looking at the new section 1.3 when they get a chance... RUTH'S ATTACHMENTS: Ruth wrote: >Speaking of missing lines, apparently Dave can no longer receive anything I >send as an enclosure. No, I got it...It's just that my ongoing "AOL anxiety" made me forget to merge it into the Digest...Sorry! DAVID'S COMMENTS ON JO: Jo's full name is Josephine...When Aunt March calls her she calls out, "Jooooo-SEPHINE!" _LAND_-RELATED THOUGHTS: Jellia: Let's see -- Today is Saturday, so Nikidik and Pipt must be one in the same today (They're two people on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays)... :) I have a question concerning the Wogglebug: Could the "Highly Magnified" Wogglebug not be the original Wogglebug, but instead a projected "shadow" that came to life, fleshed out. and so then could step off the screen, 'a la _The Purple Rose of Cairo_? Aujah: Oh just *peachy*! Now we have a "Two Wogglebugs" theory! :) Wogglebug: Not at all! The backward arthropod from which I was projected was but an archaic insect, whereas *I* am "Highly Magnified" and "Thoroughly Educated"! ASPARAGUS: And now it's time for "The Ozzy Chef" with Jellia Child! :) Jellia: I have one cooking tip for asparagus that I haven't noticed on the Digest (but I've been busy hollering orders to the royal palace painters the last few days so I may have missed it): Be sure the asparagus is *fresh*, *NOT* canned! If it's canned, it really *will* be mushy! Tune in next time when I will show you the necessary steps to cook a low-fat Chicken Kiev... ( 1. Move to Oz or other fairyland... :) :) :) ) So until next time, this is Jellia "Child" Jamb saying, "Bon Appetit!" -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 6 - 7, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===============