] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 1-2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:40:34 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal david wrote: > > I am sort of curious why they use the Greek names for the gods and > goddesses and the Latin name for Herc, though. If they're going to use > "Hercules" rather than "Herakles" (which I'll admit is more familiar to > American audiences), I'd think they should use "Jupiter" and "Juno" and > so on. > Because then Hades would have to be named "Pluto!" Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:54:41 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 David Hulan, > It's only certain ISPs who get the "hexies" because of oddball > characters. I'd get it when I was on AOL, but since I've moved to > NetSource I haven't seen it. Still, omitting the non-standard > characters is a courtesy to those whose ISPs are less sophisticated. As I previously said, I have done away with the signature file that supposedly caused your trouble. I would have no problem omitting non-standard characters if I knew what you are talking about. I'm all in favor of courtesy. Sorry for my ignorance, possibly you could enlighten me (directly, if you feel it is not appropriate for the Digest). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:03:14 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 DAVID HULAN: >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual >males, then you're saying that it's better for around 2/3 of the >population. Unless you consider the part of the population you >personally belong to to be more important than the rest, that implies to >me that overall today is better. Certainly any change will have its >negative as well as its positive aspects; one can only judge on the >overall balance. so you're saying that 2/3 of the world's population is healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male? damn, that surprises me... even if you're only talking about the U.S. population (and there are other countries, surprise surprise), isn't the gender distribution close to 50-50? and considering the entire world (which i am), taking into account the huge indian (from india, not native american) and chinese populations alone, not to mention that little continent called africa, how can one straight-facedly assert this 2/3 figure? i'd expected more thoughtfulness from you. tsk, tsk. DAVE HARDENBROOK: >"HOMOSEXUAL DISCUSSION": >This thread had been growing increasingly more inflamatory and less >Ozzy, so I have decided to "lay down the law" on this one...No further >Digest postings relating to this thread will be accepted. thank you, thank you, thank you! there's only so much inanity i can stomach. this action merits sainthood. i was losing patience rapidly. >One in particular was a story called, "An Undocumented Episode in the >Finding of Ozma"..."Finding"???...This couldn't have related to either >_Land_ or _Lost Princess_ because Kabumpo was in it, but then since when >do dreams make sense (IS there another book in which Ozma gets "Lost"?) ozma gets "lost" in _forbidden fountain_, and kabumpo is certainly in that book. perhaps that was the inspiration for your dream. of course, if you haven't read _fountain_ yet, then this is pretty eerie. * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Remember, "The train from 'Frisco was very late." (as far as runtimes go for CA trains). ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:43:15 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 Robin (and others): "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" is something my father also used to say frequently, but without attributing it. "Vas you effer in Zinzinnati?" isn't something I heard from my father, but elsewhere - I have no recollection of where or in what context, since Cincinnati wasn't a place I had any connection with to speak of until I was in my thirties. (The only exception is a train-changing story that took place there when my mother and brother and I traveled from Nashville to Cleveland to visit my aunt there during the war, but I know that had nothing to do with my hearing the phrase.) Donald: I did a fairly long report on the Ozmopolitan Convention for the 6/11 Digest. If you weren't getting the Digest then, E-mail me and I'll send you a copy. I thought it was an excellent convention, myself. Or maybe I'll just E-mail you a copy anyhow; it's no big deal. Earl: Captain Fyter is only mentioned once more in the FF after TIN WOODMAN, when he's a guest at Ozma's birthday party in MAGIC. I don't know if any of the later non-FF books have used him or not, though I don't recall an instance in one that I've read. (Of course, he hasn't been PD too long - only since 1994, I think.) My guess is that he got wet and rusted again at some point, since the Gillikin country still seems pretty wild through the later books. Probably Ozma hasn't remembered to look for him in the Magic Picture (after all, he didn't spend much time in the EC), and if it was mentioned in the Great Book of Records it probably said something like "Rain lets Gillikins run wild," or some such that she didn't realize meant the Tin Soldier had rusted. Steve: My opinion is that no FF book is heretical, by definition, though some of them contradict other FF books more than a little. But then, that's true of the Bible as well, after all. (And it's a good deal less traumatic to try to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Oz books than in the Bible.) Dave: I think it was about time to tell people to take the homosexuality discussion to private E-mail. Considerably more heat than light was starting to be generated, and the Ozzy connection had been defined and settled days ago. *Neat* Ozzy dream! I wish I'd have one - though I'd rather have Polychrome appear than Ozma. And I'd probably end up whistling Chopin's _Fantasie Impromptu_. (That's the kind of obscure joke I tend to put in my books that make some people think they lack humor...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:53:57 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 David, in TLAAOSC, it says that the Gnome King has children, and in exchange for gifts for them, the Gnome King gave Santa Claus his sleighbells. Could Ruggedo be generous? Or is it not Ruggedo? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:58:29 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:42:13 -0500 (CDT) > From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 > > SCOTT H.: > >Dave: We have the same problem. What really gets me is the jerks who > >assume that because I don't like football and don't have a girlfriend that > >I must therefore be gay. I guess this shows that I have to work with > >immature high school students. > > my empathy AND sympathy. just remember, it hurts 1000 times worse to have > the "F" word thrown at you when you really are gay. > I'm not so sure... and there is no way to ever really know, since we can't get into each other's heads. FWIW, lies set you back, while the truth will set you free. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:12:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 > Ruth: > > >I'm surprised by your comment that you "don't condone kinkiness."< > > As in hetero and homo kinkiness. In being against abuse of > life-giving powers, I'm pretty old-fashioned and non-discriminatory. I've > made it pretty clear in the past that I'm not for heterosexual misbehavior, > either. Going into detail on the harm that sort of abuse can do, as Robin > says, seems inappropriate for the Ozzy Digest. Biblically, life is > considered sacred, and so is anything connected with giving life. Hence, I > remained a maiden 'till I got married. > I agree. Of course, I'm 21, and I've never even kissed a girl, (this gets out and the accusations appear, particularly since none of my female friends seem interested appear) unless one counts when Deidre Taylor kissed me on the cheek, but I didn't kiss her, so it shouldn't count. I hugged her, but it was Fuzzy Lane, at a youth group rally. That's what we're supposed to do then. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:36:26 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Kiex: FTR, I believe there are only red, white and brown dwarfs, the last one being the rarest of them all. However, I believe they all have equal respect for one another. Earl: In or out of the FF, I believe that was the last we heard from the valiant Captain. Presumably, he is still out there somewhere doing his duty, provided he has enough oil. David: On second thought, Ruggedo's brother may have appeared in the earlier _Acinad Goes to the Emerald City of Oz_, the prequel to _Magic Diamond_. David: As I recall, only Shaggy and the Wogglebug were turned on to the Square Meal tablets. The Wogglebug's students did not care for them too much. Dave: Way to go! Hopefully, your Ozzy dream will reverberate and we will all be blessed. The only dream I had was once again working at the Golden Arches. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:46:00 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-30-97 sahutchi: The Oz collectors on last week's Personal FX show were Ann & James Lang. Jane Albright's collection was far more impressive, at least to me, it was. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:29:10 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 A little pressed for time here.... Ken, I think we have worked around to agreement. Please understand that in the earlier part of my last message I wasn't trying to _debate_ with you -- more like throw a bucket of cold water -- oops! that's not a very good metaphor to use in the OZzy Digest is it? :-) To try to state my original point once more, I do NOT think that God wants to see homosexuals killed (or whatever), but I do think that someone who believes so cannot simply be dismissed as though he had expressed belief in a four-sided triangle, with a word or two of Barney / Smurf / Dr. Quinn "niceness" moralizing, as though that settled the question. You know, it's funny. All my life, I've regarded myself as (in 20th-century postwar American terms) a liberal. But it's always the liberals I get in trouble with (as before, on the "feminism" issue). I fear that people tend to assume that when I show I'm against knee-jerk liberalism, they assume I'm a right-winger, when I'm really just violently opposed to knee jerks. * * * Report to all on "Hercules". I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've seen the comic book (which is in digest format, and made from cels). If you're looking for Edith Hamilton, you'll be sadly disappointed. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a modern-day Offenbach operetta -- well, I haven't heard the music yet, but as far as the book goes.... // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:11:38 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 > > "THE DREAMS THAT YOU DARE TO DREAM": > It finally happened last night! I FINALLY HAD AN OZZY DREAM!!! > I dreamed I was in this bookstore in the middle of nowhere and > found this book called _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_...It had a cover > containing MGM images of the characters, Emerald City, etc., but > the text was a collection of FF-consistant short stories by Oz fans. > > -- Dave Congratulations and welcome to the club of true addicts. Fred Meyer's Christmas Cards for years carried some of his dreams. I could never remember the specific details of mine. Of course the number of new Oz books has skyrocked in recent years, thanks (in part) to Books of Wonder and Buckethead. Steve T. P.S. I'm still here. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:33:31 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: The little creatures in Neill's picture of the black pit ("Dorothy and the Wizard") might be Nomes wandering about in the earth. Melody Grandy: It isn't so much the odd coloring in the "Dorothy and the Wizard" color plates of the Wizard that bothers me as the odd shading in the b&w illos. The Wizard looks in many of them as if he is wearing clown makeup and/or suffers from redness of the nose from too much drinking. David Hulan: Strictly speaking, the cornet was originally (as the name implies) a small horn, and made out of an animal's horn. When the technology developed to make "horns" out of wood and out of metal, it was something of a toss-up which things developed as "brass" and which as "woodwinds," and there was some experimentation back and forth. The flute is still considered a woodwind, although sometime in the 19th century the switch was made from boxwood to silver as the material of choice. (And James Galway plays a gold flute.) Of course, it would seem peculiar to call something made out of silver (or gold, either) a brass. What are the aspects of "Hidden Valley" that strike you as particularly 50ish, unless you'd rather leave that topic until the book comes up for group discussion (but that will be a long time)? A couple of small examples of datable bits in the Oz books (apart from Neill's use of current fashions in clothes for illos) are the movie-industry info in "Lost King," and the origin of Charley McCarthy in "Magical Mimics." Peter Hanff: Thanks for the train schedule info. Robin Olderman and Richard Randolph: I suppose the "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" line must have been quoted widely, applicable as it was to so many situations. I remember running across it in a story in an early "F&SF" (by Gordon Dickson, I think, unless it was Poul Anderson). As something still current in quotation in the far future, it seems a bit unlikely -- but possible! Earl Abbe: Robert Pattrick wrote a pleasant short story about later doings of Captain Fyter. It's included in the collection the IWOC did of his work. He gets brief mentions in "Magic" and "Scalawagons," and is one of the crowd pictured on the "Royal Book" endpapers. Dave Hardenbrook: Your subconscious seems to be telling you that you are in love with Ozma. Except your conscious probably knew that already. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 18:05:33 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Tyler - I click on Create Mail in the Mail menu? Then I just write on the presented "Message in Out Basket" blank and send it off. Is this different on a PC? Recall I am a MAC person. Melody - You are right, I had 61 years with my mother. How sad to loose your mother at such an early age. I hope you had someone who acted in that role for you to soften your loss. Again, thanks to all of you who expressed sympathies. David - I'm just not up to dealing with the issues you raise today. I'm really pressed for time. Have you been watching a lot of Bruce/Arnold/Steven movies lately? I don't think you know enough "self-styled" Conservatives. Actually there may be some right around you here on the Digest. :) Ah - another arrow from David >>>---------( o o )-------> Goodbye until next weekend, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:04:51 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 David Hulan wrote: >I don't quite see what your discussion about Nazis and homicidal child >molesters has to do with what I said. Or are you saying that God wants >Nazis and homicidal child molesters destroyed? I think most non-atheists would agree that God wants _something_ done about them. I don't want to veer off into a discussion of capital punishment per se, because that's an entirely different issue. My point is that it is not legitimate to argue that "x" is not deserving of punishment _because_ he is not voluntarily so, because there are a great many absolutely monstrous people who are the way they are because of their childhoods, upbringing, and, yes, genetics, and some of them certainly merit very great punishment indeed. If you want to _prove_ that it is wrong to punish any group "X", then you have to find a proof that always works, not one that you have to turn on and off depending on whether you like the results or not. >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual >males.... Ought this to be granted, even for argument's sake? A black woman living in the USA in the 50's, say, might have been subject to constant (but largely implicit) humiliation, and restricted in her choice of careers, but on the other hand, how do the odds stack up then and now of her being killed in a mugging or a drive-by shooting? Or of losing her job as the result of a stock-market fiddle? (Granted, that sort of thing has been far worse than it is now, but it has also, as in the 50's, been considerably better.) Or, to narrow the target even more, if a gay man in the 50's had to hide his nature, at least he wasn't as likely to be the target of plain old random gay-bashing (except, perhaps, by the police). // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_ Dave, your Ozzy dream sounds better than anything I've had (which isn't hard, considering that the only Oz characters who have shown up in any of my dreams are Scraps, the Woozy, and someone I can't remember, all of which were on a rollercoaster). The title of the book, _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_, while somewhat ostentatious, is no stranger and more meaningful than _The Bounds of the Shaggy Man of Oz_ (from a different dream of mine). While I too had never considered the possibly that Kabumpo was involved with either 'finding' of Ozma, considering that he knows where Reera is in _Reera and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz_ may indicate a yet-unrelated personal history involving magic-workers, and so he may have had dealings with Mombi or Glinda that Baum never recorded. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman ףסוי לואש ןב המלש ןרהא adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:14:05 -0700 From: MALCOLM D BARKER Subject: Family Digest Hurray for Disney and all PEOPLE, oz fans and folks of all kinds, but thanks, Dave, for remembering oz is a family subject... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 07:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 6/30 Digest Jeremy and Kiex mention that some people seem to have dwarf racial preferences. I must confess that I have such feelings. I prefer Brownies -- especially with nuts and chocolate chips. :-) Also, Tyler Jones asks the Digesters about their paragraph keying. Tyler, I just type and let the lines word-wrap where they will. I only use the enter where I want to force a new line. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 Just after I read DOTWIZ I read _The Braided Man of Oz_ (*1/2). Last night I read _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, and it seems Donald Abbott's only talent is copying off W.W. Denslow. His story was partly heretical, and often contradictory. First off, his Glinda is ugly, unlike Denslow's, and he has her transform herself several times, which is in opposition to Glinda's properties and/or morals, as it says in _Land_. Also, he says the spider was conjured up by magic. This is contradictory in that the blue gryphon he created could only be defeated by magic, not from a blow, yet the spider he says is magical was destroyed by the lion's claw in one blow, in _Wizard_. He also seems to take an influence from the major films in ways that seem to be copycat or uninspired as opposed to the subversive little jokes of my own Oz writing. Notably the MGM film ("lions and tigers and bears" (which was spoofed on last night _Caroline in the City_ if anyone happened to watch it) and calling the Wicked Witch of the East the WWW's sister) _Journey Back to Oz_ (monster from a brew, witchy relatives), and Cinar's _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ (1987) (Glinda's transformations). I also re-read _The Blue Witch of Oz_ last night, which is probably my favorite non-FF Oz book, except my MS :-). My comment about "Abby" came after not really reading it. I wanted to wait until I had read _Shaggy Man_. My whole point, other than wondering about the gay stereotype surrounding Judy, was that I didn't like the idea of making someone else's characters turn gay. If someone had done that to one of my characters, I would be turning in my grave. If Eric wanted to create his own gay character, that would be a different matter entirely. I hope this puts the inappropriately raging debate to an end sans censorship. More on _DOTWIZ_: I think Ozma seemed totally out of character, except that she was bored because there was no one her age to talk to (doesn't this throw a monkeywrench into your idea of Ozma reaching womanhood, Dave). She was probably trying to figure out her place, whether she was a leader and representative of her people, or whether she was lord over her people, and wanted to see the stretch of her power. She seemed to have a superiority complex which she had far less of in _Ozma_, as well as subsequent books. Note her attitude toward the piglet, and her "bring it here, I want to play with it" attitude. Perhaps she thought of it as displaced revenge against Mombi, or was being temporarily corrupted by her absolute power. These are interesting examples of this, though Eureka's trial is the more obvious one. Eventually, she learned the proper restraint and manners that were truer to her nature. I think she realized that to be a proper ruler she just had to be herself. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 13:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 In case any of you are wondering, I got an e-mail from Katherine, and her aversion to the telephone is as strong as mine: only in emergencies. Yet another thing we have in common. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 15:03:47 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Well I saw something surreal last night :) -- I saw a movie with Billie Burke talking in what must be her normal voice, rather than her sing-song "Glinda" voice that she uses in most of her movies (I thought she *really* talked like she usually does onscreen!) Scott wrote: >More on _DOTWIZ_: I think Ozma seemed totally out of character, except >that she was bored because there was no one her age to talk to (doesn't >this throw a monkeywrench into your idea of Ozma reaching womanhood, >Dave). My assumption is that Ozma *was* a little girl in the *early* books, but I won't state my full opinion, since so many on this Digest insist on treating me like I'm Galileo standing before the Inquisition... :( :( :( Danny wrote (in reply to David H.): >> I am sort of curious why they use the Greek names for the gods and >> goddesses and the Latin name for Herc, though. If they're going to use >> "Hercules" rather than "Herakles" (which I'll admit is more familiar to >> American audiences), I'd think they should use "Jupiter" and "Juno" and >> so on. >Because then Hades would have to be named "Pluto!" I was going to write to David stuff about Jupiter, etc. being associated by the modern public with the planets and not the gods, and so on...But I think you've hit the nail on the head! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 3, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 21:23:12 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 Danny: Your explanation of why the Greek names for the gods and goddesses were used in "Hercules" makes perfect sense. In fact, having read it, I ROTFLMAO! Bob: As I thought I said, I don't get the "hexies" with my current ISP. But "non-standard characters" are anything that isn't generated by hitting a key on the keyboard, with or without holding the Shift key down. I.e., don't use anything that requires the Option key on the Mac or the Control key on a PC. I don't, incidentally, know that anything you did had anything to do with other people getting the "hexies"; that was something that Ruth inferred. We do know that Aaron's Hebrew signature causes it. Atticus: You didn't read my post carefully enough. (OK, maybe I didn't make it clear enough for a casual reader; apologies if so.) I was saying that 2/3 of the US population is _not_ "healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male", not that it is. The latter would be stupid; roughly half of any population in the world is female (unless you're talking about armies or some other specialized "population"), for starters. I'm guessing, but I know that about 12% of the population is black, about 8% Latino, about 15% poor, somewhere in the 2-15% range homosexual, and maybe 5% unhealthy. I thought a rough guess that 1/3 of the population is healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male would be about right. And I was talking about the US, because Bear, who brought up the subject, certainly was. My apologies if I wasn't clear. Ozma sort of gets lost in HUNGRY TIGER as well - at least, she's off away from Oz and nobody in Oz seems to know where she's gone. Scott H.: True, the train was late, but that's what made it arrive at five o'clock instead of midnight. It was clearly _scheduled_ to arrive at midnight, so it had to be around twelve hours' normal travel from San Francisco. (Incidentally, I noted that it said "gray dawn was breaking" at five o'clock AM. This should give us a fairly accurate estimate of what the date was for the book; dawn breaks in central California around 5 AM only in early April and early September. The former date seems highly probable; we know that at the end of OZMA the hired hands were in "the harvest fields", which would indicate an early-fall date for that book, and it seems unlikely that Uncle Henry and Dorothy would have stayed in Australia for over a year.) Ah, I'd forgotten that bit from SANTA CLAUS. So OK, the Gnome King there has children. I don't think he was Ruggedo (or Roquat), in any case; he seems to have an entirely different personality. He was probably overthrown between SANTA and OZMA. (Most of the events of SANTA, even including the council of immortals that bestowed the cloak of immortality on Santa Claus, clearly take place centuries ago.) Tyler: I don't think brown dwarfs are necessarily the rarest; they're just harder to detect and therefore we don't know of as many of them. As there are more silverfish than people in Chicago, but I haven't seen as many of them. I haven't read _Acinad Goes to the Emerald City_, so maybe it includes the Nome King's brother. (It's OP, or I'd have ordered it from Buckethead.) That's right, I'd forgotten that the square-meal tablets turn up as a motivation for the Woggle-bug's students to toss him in the river in MAGIC. But the incident in PG is still the only one where someone actually consumes one "on stage". Ruth: The aspect of HIDDEN VALLEY that strikes me as particularly "'50ish" is primarily the dialog, especially Percy's. The events of the book could have happened more or less anytime (although Jam's clothing is typical of the '50s - but at least he wasn't wearing his Davy Crockett coonskin cap :-)), but Percy in particular sounds like an early-'50s teen-ager. (I know, I was one. And I wince in retrospect...) I'd forgotten the movie-industry references in LOST KING (though really that provides only a _terminus a quo_; there isn't much there that couldn't be the same today). The Charlie McCarthy reference in MAGICAL MIMICS is so much of a throwaway joke that it's hard to count, except for someone looking to pin down the book in the HACC. Bear: "Bruce/Arnold/Steven movies"? I assume those are maybe Bruce Lee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Steven ? ? No, I've never seen a movie with any of those characters, to the best of my recollection, and certainly not in the last decade. But I'd rather take this discussion out of the Digest anyhow, as I remarked in a private E-mail after you'd apparently written this message. John K.: Anything, however absurd, can be granted for argument's sake. But if you want to argue that things might have been better for most black women in 1950 than in 1997, I'll be glad to argue the contrary - in private E-mail. I don't think it's appropriate for the Ozzy Digest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:40:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Atty: I believe David Hulan was referring to the US population only. The 2/3 are those who did not fall into the prespecified catagroy. And, for the record, I believe his estimate is pretty close. David: Chris Dulabone believes _Shaggy Man_ and possibly _Rinkitink_ to be Heretical, despite being in the FF. Efforts to get him to explain his reasoning have yet to evoke a coherent response. Scott: I was 20 before my lips touched those of a girl's, so you're not too far behind. I would have pursued "M", but I found out she already had a boyfriend and was using me to make him jealous. "S" forced the issue, and I backed down from both of them, rather than beat "S" to a pulp and take "M" for myself. As the years have gone by, I realized that I was wrong to take the peaceful course. Captain Fyter: I forgot his cameo in _Magic_. As someone pointed out, he has only been PD for a short time, so maybe some stories about him will come out. Bear: No, that is what I was doing, but I could not control the length of each line of text. Do you press the ENTER key, or do you just let the text wrap? Right now, I write the message in Notepad, then copy and paste into the CompuServe outbasket. Scott: My main anti-HACC complaint against _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ has to do with Glinda's actions toward the Wizard and the details of the final battle (Wizard versus Wicked Witches). Oddly enough, Chris considers this the most HACC-worthy of the Books of Wonder titles to date, althgough how he can do so is beyond me. Tomorrow, I will attempt to send a post using the CompuServe outbasket with no hard returns except between paragraphs. We will see. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 20:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Dave, the hexes were back in the 7/2 Digest. As to who was better off in the forties and fifties, I think that children had it better then - a much better education, virtually no violence, and freedom. I roamed for miles, took the bus into the city whenever I wanted on weekends, and no one worried -- there was no reason to worry. Ruth Berman mentions a Robert Pattrick collection put out by IWOC. I don't recall that. I thought that I had all the IWOC publications. But then, they say that the memory is the second thing to go. (I forget the first.) Guys & gals, I will be off-line until the middle of the month. To keep my inbox from overflowing, please try to be terse. That is, there is no reason to ramble on and on without end when a few well chosen words would do as well. Yes, brevity is to be desired. Why say a thing twice or thrice or four times when once will do? This is not to say that ideas should be omitted, just that they should be expressed succinctly and without repetition or redundancy or other needless verbage. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 09:34:44 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 > From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" > > DAVID HULAN: > >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the > >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual > >males, then you're saying that it's better for around 2/3 of the > >population. > so you're saying that 2/3 of the world's population is healthy, white, > middle-class, heterosexual, and male? damn, that surprises me... No, Atticus, you've got it backwards. He said that 2/3 of the U.S. population does NOT meet the qualifications of healthy, white, middle-class and heterosexual. That is 1/3 is. > Steve: > My opinion is that no FF book is heretical, by definition, though some > of them contradict other FF books more than a little. But then, that's > true of the Bible as well, after all. (And it's a good deal less > traumatic to try to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Oz books > than in the Bible.) > > David Hulan > We do not disagree. > > Report to all on "Hercules". I haven't seen the movie yet, > but I've seen the comic book (which is in digest format, and > made from cels). If you're looking for Edith Hamilton, you'll > be sadly disappointed. If, on the other hand, you're looking > for a modern-day Offenbach operetta -- well, I haven't heard > the music yet, but as far as the book goes.... > > // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" SPOILER FOR DISNEY'S HERCULES-------------------------------- Yesterday I saw the Disney HERCULES (with my seven-year old son, if I need an excuse), so I can report on it. As a persopn who has taught Greek Mythology for more years than some members of the digest have been alive, I found the film top be a complete distortion of the myths. The writers found characters that were related to the Heracles story and incorporated them in totally inappropriate ways. Megara, who in the myths was Heracles first wife and was killed along with their children by Heracles in his madness, becomes a very modern liberated woman who has been soured on men because of a bad relationship (in the course of which she sold herself to Hades). Hades, a rather non-descript figure in Greek myth best known for kidnapping Persephone with her father Zeus' permission, becomes a type of Milton's Satan, a purely evil force who attempts to overthrow Zeus. Philoloctes, whose only connection to Heracles in the myths is as the person who lit his living funeral pyre and was rewarded with his bow and arrows, becomes Phil, a satyr who was the Yoda to Hercules' Luke Skywalker. I realy should have disliked the movie, and was prepared to do so, BUT in fact I enjoyed it greatly. It has a stylized appearance which is closed to Greek red and black pottery than to the detailed realism of SNOW WHITE and PINNOCHIO. It is totallly irreverant, impertinant, and breezy. It absolutely refuses to take itself seriously, and for me to take it seriously is to break a butterfly upon the wheel. I would not give it four stars as many of the critics are doing, but I would recommend it for those who enjoy a spoofy cartoon. -----END SPOILER------ This is the last day in which I will be in my office. The workmen have not invaded my room yet, but they are just down the hall. Unless I get another digest later today (which is unlikely, but possible), this will be my last message until after July 16 and the Winkie Conferance. I hope to see many of you there. So to all, auf weidersehen, au revoir. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 10:39:06 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 DAVID H.: sorry for my previous post, gili just pointed out to me how badly i misread your statement. i shall be far more careful in the future. now, i'll don my asbestos suit, sit back and watch the various flames which i have merited for my carelessness. ;) atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 11:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Hey, Oz fans, check this out! I've been spending way too much time the past few weeks upgrading and updating bits of my web site, especially the links page (there's now over 250!), so I'm asking all of you online Oz fans to come check it out. If only to make me FEEL as if my effort was worth it... --Eric "After I get back from Winkies, I'm updating the FAQ" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 16:10:45 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 David: Woodwinds are so named because they require reeds in order to be played. That's why a saxophone is a woodwind instrument and not a brass instrument. Scott P.S.: It looks like a new video of Rankin Bass's long-out-of-print _Return to Oz_ was released on video March 18, 1997, which is according to the Internet Movie Database. Has everybody who worked on _Oz: The American Fairyland_ found their page yet? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 14:20:19 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 David Hulan, Thanks for a lucid explanation of "Nonstandard Characters". I will be certain to avoid them in the future. I did not intentionally use them in the past, however Ruth could have been right. I am unsure if I copied and pasted that signature test from another source (which might very well have included something not quite kosher) or if I transcribed it. If a similar situation presents itself I will be certain to do the transcription, thus avoiding possible "hexies". Steven J. Teller, I enjoyed your very fair minded review of Disney's "Hercules". I had no intention of seeing it, now I probably will (as your son was your excuse, I will use you as mine). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:18:28 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 Short Digest, and I wrote about half of it, so this should be an unusually "toise but cherce" post for me... Tyler: As I've said before, I yield to none in my admiration for Chris Dulabone's knowledge of the Oz books and for what he's done for Oz through Buckethead - but I think a lot of his ideas about Oz are just plain Weird. Especially considering a Baum book even possibly heretical. If we're into True Confessions here, I was 21 before I kissed a girl with serious intent, though my lips had met those of a couple (not counting close female relatives) at an earlier age. However, I made up for the late start quite satisfactorily after that, so I urge Scott not to give up hope! ;-) And in what sense do you believe that you were wrong to take the peaceful course with "S" and "M"? Do you really think that if you'd beaten "S" to a pulp that "M" would then have been Yours? Or, if so, that you'd really have enjoyed it? Chris considers _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ the most HACC-worthy of the BoW books so far? Weird, again. It isn't wildly heretical, imho (though I'll admit that I haven't reread it, so I might have forgotten a few things), but I don't think QUEEN ANN or GLASS CAT or GIANT GARDEN or probably MASQUERADE are heretical at all. Even _How the Wizard Saved Oz_, though not a very good book, didn't seem heretical to me when I read it. Possibly, though, Chris hasn't read all of the BoW books? Earl: No argument that kids got better educations in the public schools in the '40s and '50s. Of course, this is largely attributable to the fact that teaching school was one of the few occupations open to women in those days, and one of the best-paid (even though it wasn't any better-paid in an absolute sense than it is today), so you got a lot of highly intelligent, highly qualified women teaching school. Today there's a lot wider array of occupations available for highly intelligent, highly qualified women, so although some still teach school because of intangible rewards, more go for occupations with better pay and more prestige. And as a result, the average quality of teachers, especially in elementary schools, is much lower. This is pure Peter Principle at work. And I agree there was less violence and things were safer for kids then, too - though the danger certainly wasn't zero. I think there was a second factor at work as well - there wasn't any TV, so people didn't get violent incidents blasted in their faces on the 10-o'clock (11 o'clock Eastern and Pacific) news every night. I suspect that if your parents had been able to see every crime that happened in "the city" (which city was that?) in gory detail, they might have been much more reluctant to let you take a bus in by yourself even then. There are two different versions of Pattrick's UNEXPLORED TERRITORY IN OZ available from the IWOC, one with notes by Patrick Maund and one without. (I recommend the first, even though it costs a dollar or so more.) I got a good laugh out of your last paragraph. I assume that I was intended to? Steve: You'll see me at Winkie, unless some disaster intervenes. I have my room, my plane tickets...I really ought to go ahead and reserve myself a rental car in San Jose, though, now that I think of it... It would be a real bummer to get to that airport and find there were no rental cars available to get me from there to Asilomar. (Not a disaster - I have friends in SJ who I'm sure would drive me down once they're off work - but it would make me late, and would also be an imposition.) Atticus: No flames; I'm glad you reread what I said and agree with it. When I reread it myself I could see how a cursory reading might get a wrong impression, though I'd have hoped that the general tenor of my posts over the months would have made your interpretation seem so out of character for me that you'd have gone back and checked it carefully before commenting. But one can't have everything one hopes. :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 22:25:04 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 Content-disposition: inline Tyler: > "S" forced the issue, and I backed down from both of them, rather than beat "S" to a pulp and take "M" for myself. As the years have gone by, I realized that I was wrong to take the peaceful course.< Of course you were right to take the peaceful course--beating up the guy might have only shown "M" that you were a bully, and now you'd be suffering a guilty conscience over hurting the guy. Isn't it better to start off too nice, and learn how to be strong on a good way, than start off too mean, then suffer pangs of remorse later in life over all the people you've hurt? Of course, if you think you were wrong to back down completely, you might've asked "M" to choose between you.. I look back & regret some of my acts of cowardice also, so you're not alone. Cowardly Lion: Hey, I've been s-scared, too, y'know! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 23:13:43 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Oz the movie.. Dave, Would you post this on the digest? I had sent Tyler Jones' page of merchandise links to this member and he may want to know about the outdated links. Jim -----Original Message----- From: The Stat Center [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 1997 3:13 PM Subject: RE: Oz the movie.. Hi Jim, Best of Kansas and Annie M's Collectibles are terrific. Kidz Store was interesting too. They were exactly what I was looking for. Some of the others resulted in "not found" as follows (FYI): http://www.achilles.net/~jhall/gallery.html http://www.webomatic.com/CMPA/CMPA.html http://virtumall.com/Grandio/WizardChecks.html Thank you again for your help. If you ever find others and have a moment, please keep me posted..... Sincerely, -Nancy At 10:47 PM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >You're right, Nancy - looks like they changed ISPs. Here's where I found them" > >Best of Kansas (1994-1995 Issue) Page 3 > >1-800-593-5566. 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Central Time) Monday through Saturday. We've brought back your favorite Oz characters as you requested. We have no idea. >http://www.radiks.net/bok/page3.html - size 3K - 22.May.97 - English > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: The Stat Center [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 11:24 AM >To: International Wizard of Oz Club >Subject: RE: Oz the movie.. > >Hi Jim, > > Thank you SO much for your help. I am looking forward to searching >the sites you've suggested. Unfortunatly the >http://www.southwind.net/IMS/bok address was not good. I was told that it >was unfound. I believe that was the company that was sold. If you hear of a >more current site for them, please let me know. The other sites I will try >soon. > > Thanks so much for your attention. > Sincerely, -Nancy > > >At 06:59 AM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Leo and Nancy, >> >>One of the best places to check is "Best of Kansas" which has a catalog on >the internet (http://www.southwind.net/IMS/bok/) >> >>If you'll excuse the raw HTML, I've included some other possible Oz >merchandise sites from one of our members' home page. I haven't verified >the links, however. >> >>Sincerely, >>Jim Vander Noot >> >> Annie M's Collectibles >>
>>
Fine Gifts and Collectibles From The Wizard of OZ & Gone With The >> Wind >>
>>
> NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"> >> Celebrities Gallery >>
>>
Animation art of the Wizard of Oz for sale from an animation company. >>
  >>
>>
> NATURALSIZEFLAG="3">Kidz Store >> Wizard of Oz figurines
>> >>
NATURALSIZEFLAG= >> "3"> Movie Poster Art >> Wizard of Oz posters for sale here.
>>
>> NATURALSIZEFLAG= >> "3"> Anthony Grandio >> Company Wizard of Oz checks for sale.
>>
>> Katy's Collectibles >> Antique Mall Some Wizard of Oz merchandise: books, cookie jars...
>>
>> Little Nell's Room Some Wizard >> of Oz merchandise...
>>
>> Collectibles Some >> Wizard of Oz merchandise, but mostly Star Trek stuff... >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Leo and Nancy Letarte [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] >>Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 4:00 PM >>To: iwoc@neosoft.com >>Subject: Oz the movie.. >> >>Not to sound unappreciative of the historical items found through your >>web page, but I am looking for items which represent characters/props >>from the movie. I'm not a collector of expensive rare items. I am >>painting my children's den to look like the Oz from the movie. I was >>lucky enough to come across a replica of the Lion's medel of courage and >>a few ornaments from a store in Kansas. The store was sold and I lost >>contact. I keep trying on the Internet for a resource with not much >>luck. Are you able to give me any hint of a direction to find commercial >>items as I mentioned??? >> >> >> > > > > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 00:02:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 HERCULES: It is fun, but definitely not true to mythology as most of us understand it. I, too, noted the style's seemingly trying to mimic early Greek pottery, but then, it may be that someone at Disney was just trying to use '50s animation...kinda similar. I won't go into details here:Steve's report did that quite well. The movie is worth its admission price if you go at matineee time. BTW, I went all by myself with no child as my "cover." I'm off to Winkieland in a matter of hours. This is my last posting until I return on the night of the 14th. I hope to see some of you at Asilomar. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 14:01:03 -0700 From: craig burns Subject: one simpleOz question I am not a fanatic of TWOO so I won't get on your list. but do you have the answer to this question: In the movie, when the coroner walks out and begins to sing his schpiel , he sings: "As coroner,____________, I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincereley dead" could you fill in the blank for me? thanks in advance ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 5 - 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:08:46 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Scott: There are various definitions of woodwinds. Quite a few of them include French horns, since they sit among the woodwinds in a classical orchestra. I was a clarinet/saxophone player for about ten years in various bands and orchestras, so I'm not speaking purely from hearsay. This time I _really_ have a short post! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 14:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 and 7-4-97 Seeing if I can add some meat into all my catching up . . . The 3rd-- Re Hexies: I thought those were the WWW's favorite pasttime . . . Transportation in . . . in . . . in the US! Earl Abbe mentioned that things were better (easier, at any rate) in the 40s-50s because, among other things, transportation was much more accessible (buses and such). After hearing my mom (of NYC origin) talk about subways, and since I don't drive (or even if I did, would rather ride in a bus with lots of other people and create the same amount of pollution than in an indivjdual car--if I had to at all), I wish I had that opportunity. (By the way, she was never mugged until she moved to Baton Rouge, LA, for grad school--well into her 20s. But that's another point). Also to Earl Abbe: "Excess verbage"--was that a snide comment directed at my sense of humor or expression thereof? Will try to keep myself in briefs nevertheless. On to the 4th-- All: Happy (late) Independence Day, everyone! (Wonder if Oz ever had to get independence from anything/anyone--interesting book idea, there . . .) --KIEX (with that jermy thing) Jeremy: Hey! This is my computer, you know! KIEX: The only thing you can really say for yourself, that. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 21:38:55 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Content-disposition: inline Craig Burns: "As coroner, I must aver, I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead!" Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 23:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: BillyOzFan@aol.com Subject: Make CONTACT with Oz I have just seen the prescreening of a fantastic new movie, CONTACT, surely to bring many hours of conversations. For the oz fans out there there are a few visual, cinematical and literary references to oz in the movie. I am sure as the movie makes general release this topic will get more written about. I don't want to spoil anything so go forth and venture for yourself. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 97 13:19:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TO MELODY: Thanks for the "Wizard" quote! ( Did you remember to send the answer to the non-member who asked? :) ) OZ AND CARL SAGAN: BillyOzFan wrote: >I have just seen the prescreening of a fantastic new movie, CONTACT, surely >to bring many hours of conversations. This is the movie I've been waiting for. :) Carl Sagan first wrote the novel _Contact_ in 1985 and there was to be a movie, but as you can see there was a *slight* delay. :) Most people on the Digest know the esteem I hold for Dr. Sagan (If only he could have lived to see _Pathfinder_ land on Mars!!!), and as he was an ardent Oz fan, it's not surprising that there are Oz references in the movie...Are there any Oz fans in the Southern California area who'd like to see the movie with me? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 7 - 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 22:00:00 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline David: We're definitely on the same side of the aisle in this regard. Despite my occassional needling of Chris for some issues, the fact is that I consider to the best source on Oz books in the known Universe. His knowledge of Oz and Ozzy events is absolutely unmatched anywhere. We are extremely lucky to have him here. Let's get Physical (NOT): It is possible that I would have won the fair lady had I gotten tough. However, I may not have enjoyed it. I've only been in a fight once. It was the classical situation of the picked-on kid standing up to the bully. Without meaning to brag, I won, but I felt terrible when his nose bled and he started crying. In the long run, I would rather not have to go through that again. Chris has probably read all of the Oz books. The one poison pill in _How the Wizard Saved Oz_ was the situation with Mombi, Tip and Ozma. Other than that, there were no real problems. Merchandise links: I suppose that the inclusion of my name in that was a mistake, or was it? Kiex: Actually, the idea of an Ozzy independence day may factor very briefly in my onw book, if I ever write the thing. I don;t want to give anything away, but I will say that this is not independence for Oz, but FROM Oz! (heh heh heh) For three posts, this is pretty short! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 00:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest The July 6 Digest was SO short I feel compelled to write something (also, I should appear at least once a month to prove I am around). Perhaps folks are too busy packing for Asilomar? Speaking of Asilomar, my attempt to make a weekend of it has slowly devolved into a Saturday only jaunt. I will be driving down with my 4 year old son Andrew, who is looking forward to the kids events. We may bring some friends, who would like to set up a picnic at the beach. Anyone else bringing kids??? I had the pleasure of seeing Eloise Jarvis McGraw (who no longer uses the Jarvis, so it is easier to sign her name) last week. She signed several books for me, including copies of The Moorchild and Tangled Webb, which I plan to donate for the kids auction on Saturday. When seeing the 1st edition of Merry Go Round I had brought for signing, she told me it was worth a good deal of money (about $600 by her estimate!). I didn't tell her I bought it just this spring for $24. I have an "Oz Books Wanted" ad on an Oz site that has been generated some interesting replies. I am supposed to receive several lists of Oz collectibles for sale, which I will be happy to share. Hope to see you all in Asilomar. Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 08:12:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Earl Abbe: Enjoyed your explanation of repetition and redundancy. And how are things in Rigmarole? // I was mistaken in thinking that "The Tin Woodman and the Tin Soldier" was included in the "Unexplored Territory in Oz" collection of Bob Pattrick's work the IWOC published. It was in an early "Baum Bugle," and reprinted in "Best" # -- um, #3, I think. (Note to all: all five of the "Best of the Baum Bugle" collections of the early years are still available, and well worth getting. Check with the IWOC at P.O. Box 266, Kalamazoo, Mich 49004-0266, for current prices.) David Hulan: Yes, come to think of it, I think you're right that Percy's slang dates "Hidden Valley" to the 50s. Scott Hutchins: Some examples of woodwinds that don't use reeds are flutes and recorders. Those of you attending the Winkie convention: Hope you'll comment on the doings there? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 09:48:00 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 Jeremy: Public transportation is definitely something that's gone downhill since the'40s and '50s, though it's been making something of a comeback the last decade or so; I think the nadir for public transportation was probably the '70s. And as I said a couple of days ago, I'm pretty sure Earl was being humorous in his urgings to cut out "excess verbiage" - in a paragraph with about as much excess verbiage as is possible. No other comments I can think of on this rather abbreviated Digest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:26:25 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 Dave, all this sci-fi talk (okay, so I guess there wasn't *that* much) is there any update on the Oz-on -Charon project? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:44:48 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 > And in what sense do you believe that you were wrong to take the > peaceful course with "S" and "M"? Do you really think that if you'd > beaten "S" to a pulp that "M" would then have been Yours? Or, if so, > that you'd really have enjoyed it? Yes, I was wondering about this myself. And why did you shoose the names "S" and "M," are you a weirdo or something? > Of course you were right to take the peaceful course--beating up > the guy might have only shown "M" that you were a bully, and now you'd be > suffering a guilty conscience over hurting the guy. Isn't it better to > start off too nice, and learn how to be strong on a good way, than start > off too mean, then suffer pangs of remorse later in life over all the > people you've hurt? Of course, if you think you were wrong to back down > completely, you might've asked "M" to choose between you.. I look back & > regret some of my acts of cowardice also, so you're not alone. I haven't gone that far, but Katherine and I are friends, so I don't think that's necessary at present. > > Cowardly Lion: Hey, I've been s-scared, too, y'know! How did you like Nathan Lane's pansy-like portrayal (sorry, that was the stereotype he seemed to evoke)? > > I am not a fanatic of TWOO so I won't get on your list. but do you > have the answer to this question: In the movie, when the coroner walks > out and begins to sing his schpiel , he sings: "As coroner,____________, > I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really > most sincereley dead" could you fill in the blank for me? thanks in > advance I responded to this, in case no one else has yet. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:52:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 I was looking at old Video Yesteryear new release catalogs, and I found out there is a porno star named John Dough. Is there some weird Oz fan who debuted him in an adult _John Dough and the Cherub_? There wouldn't be much name recognition with that title though. It would be weird if he is in the adult Wizard of Oz video my friend has. He's going to send it to Justin Schiller, at his request. Patrick: When was the Hong Kong Wizard of Oz school play? I forgot. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 17:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 I just finished catching up on the last three Ozzy Digests as I was in Minnesota for the past week. I see that the Digests have been rather short, so there's not much to respond to. We spent a few days in Minneapolis (my mother's hometown) and then went up to a cabin on the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. This was a family reunion. (My mom's siblings have only been all together three times since their parents died in 1963.) Fantastic! I hiked and fished, explored an island, and saw a bear and bald eagles. One of my uncles and his son, my cousin, share a collection of Oz books. It is the only complete collection of the Famous Forty that I have ever seen besides my own. Some of the books aren't in great condition, but they have first editions in near fine condition of _Glinda_, _Purple Prince_ and _Merry Go Round_ (with dust jacket) among others. They also have early printings of _Santa Claus_, _Enchanted Island of Yew_, _Queen Zixi_, and _Magical Monarch of Mo_. I came bearing gifts, so they now have two new additions to their collection: _Yankee_ and _Ozmapolitan_. It was the least I could do to return the favor b/c my Uncle Tom gave me my copies of _Giant Horse_ and _Pirates_ (both in dust jackets, though not first editions) in 1977. Another uncle and aunt saw signs for a Wizard of Oz museum in Wisconsin (I think that's where it was) during their drive to Minneapolis. They aren't Oz fans, so they didn't check it out. Does anyone know anything about this? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Saundersrl@aol.com Subject: Oz Oz Book List The Wonderful Wizard of Oz } The Gnome King of Oz The Marvelous Land of Oz } The Giant Horse of Oz } Ozma of Oz } Jackpupkinhead of Oz Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz } The Yellow Knight of Oz } The Road to Oz Pirates in Oz } The Emerald City of Oz The Purple Prince of Oz The Pachwork Girl of Oz } Ojo in Oz } Tik Tok of Oz } Speedy in Oz The Scarecrow of Oz The Wishing Horse of Oz } Rinkitink in Oz } Captian Salt in Oz } The Lost Princess ofOz Handy Mandy in Oz } The Tin Woodman of Oz The Silver Princess in Oz } The Magic of Oz } Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz Glinda of Oz The Wonder City of Oz The Royal Book of Oz The Scalawagons oz Oz } Kabumpo in Oz Lucky Bucky in Oz The Cowardly Lion of Oz The Magical Mimics in Oz Grampa in Oz The Shaggy Man of Oz } The Lost King of Oz The Hidden Vally Of Oz The Hungry Tiger of Oz Merry Go Round in Oz The Books With } Mark Are The Ones I Have. Only Want Books Without Color Plates, No Dust Jackets, Thats No First Prints. I Only Buy To Read And I Like The Hard Cover With The Paper Label. Richard Saunders 300 N Vista # 915 Houston Tx 77073 281-821-6313 Saundersrl@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:22:25 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Scott wrote: >David: Woodwinds are so named because they require reeds in order to be >played. That's why a saxophone is a woodwind instrument and not a brass >instrument. Nope. Fipple and transverse flutes are woodwinds, too. You're on the right track, though; the modern interpretation is that anything with a cup mouthpiece is a "brass", while everything else is a "woodwind", so it's the mouthpiece, tho' it isn't the reed. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:33:33 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 David Hulan wrote: >There are various definitions of woodwinds. Quite a few of them include >French horns, since they sit among the woodwinds in a classical >orchestra. Horns sometimes play with woodwinds, and a horn is a member of the standard "woodwind quintet", but I cannot recall ever seeing horns _classified_ _as_ woodwinds in, say, a reference book or orchestration text or manual. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 23:21:09 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Gee, I'm sorry to say you made it too easy for me to catch up. Guess I better get busy and read the new BOCF. Tyler - >No, that is what I was doing, but I could not control the length of each line of text. Do you press the ENTER key, or do you just let the text wrap? Right now, I write the message in Notepad, then copy and paste into the CompuServe outbasket. No, I don't use ENTER. I just use the mail form. I don't use the Notepad. Why don't you use the mail form? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 09:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: BOZZYBEAR@aol.com Subject: OZ Merchandise Cc: BOZZYBEAR@aol.com In the July 4th digest listing sources for OZ merchandise was disappointed not to see my establishment listed. I owe "OZways Something Collectibles" in Philadelphia .... we specialize in TV/Movie memorabilia >>> high emphazise on OZ .... several vintage items. Address is PO Box 53850, Philadelphia, PA 19105, Phone 215-637-6406. Contact us with "wants" or list of available merchandise. Can also e-mail us at OZways@AOL.com We are still working on our WEB page ... will advise when completed. Would like also to remind everyone of the Munchkin convention on August 1-3 in Wilmington Del .... please send your registrations into me as soon as possible. OZways Marck Barry Decourval (Ozways Something Collectibles) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:54:23 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: Oz Club Xmas Cards? Hi everyone! Does anyone recall an article in a recent Baum Bugle about the Christams cards that Fred Meyer sends to Oz Club members? I've looked and looked without any luck, and I'm beginning to think that I might be losing my... ummm... what's that brain function called.... you know..... song about it in "Cats"..... ummmm.. Cheers, Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 14:56:57 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Could there be an "Ozian Independence Day" on and celebrating the day Dorothy melted the WWW, or perhaps when Ozma took the throne? Danny asked for an Oz-on-Charon update. The last thing that's happened is that I've written once again to Frank Drake, Martin Gardner and Harlen Ellison (who didn't answer the first time) asking them to support the project. If they reply (or haven't by the end of summer), I will send our peitition with the names of the people who have expressed support to the International Astronomical Union. Patrick Moore said not to get our hopes up because he expects they won't honor a 20th century author, but there's no harm in trying... Just one other I thing I thought of: Would it be a good idea to post this in the Baum Bugle or other journal in order to rally support from offline Oz fans? My family and I watched the movie "Lost Horizon" last night...I find the resemblance between Oz and Shangri-La uncanny -- Utopian society, cut off from the rest of the world, where there is no war, no illness, no hunger, want, cruelty or discontent, and at least greatly delayed aging and death...And also the two-word credo, "Be kind." (Oz's is of course the similar albeit more child-oriented "Behave yourself.") And like Dorothy, Conway is foolish enough to think that "there's no place like home", until he finally realizes that the wonderful place "over the rainbow" he found is his *real* home! (And arguably Conway's brother is the Nome King.) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 10 - 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 > Hi everyone! > > Does anyone recall an article in a recent Baum Bugle about the Christams cards > that Fred Meyer sends to Oz Club members? I've looked and looked without any > luck, and I'm beginning to think that I might be losing my... ummm... what's > that brain function called.... you know..... song about it in "Cats"..... > ummmm.. > I remember this article, too. i think it was early-'80s > the resemblance between Oz and Shangri-La uncanny -- Utopian society, > cut off from the rest of the world, where there is no war, no illness, > no hunger, want, cruelty or discontent, and at least greatly delayed > aging and death...And also the two-word credo, "Be kind." (Oz's is of > course the similar albeit more child-oriented "Behave yourself.") > And like Dorothy, Conway is foolish enough to think that "there's no > place like home", until he finally realizes that the wonderful place > "over the rainbow" he found is his *real* home! (And arguably Conway's > brother is the Nome King.) And like Dorothy, people age rapidly when they leave! Anyone seen _Latitude Zero_? I'm going to watch it again tonight. It's probably closer in spirit to the Oz of the books than any actual Oz films. BTW, what's a fipple? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 21:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Dave: By all means, circulate a petition among off-line Oz people. The more the better! Joel: Glad to see that you're still on the Digest. I, too, haven't had nearly as much to say lately. I must say, I'm terribly envious of your $24 _Merry Go Round in Oz_. It's the only FF book that I don't have an R&B or R&L copy of, though I do have the BoW reprint. I only saw the first edition for the first time last week at my Uncle Tom's house. (I suppose I saw it when I visited him in 1977, but I don't remember it.) Speaking of Merry Go Round, does anyone know where I can get a first edition? Herm doesn't have it, and I'm second in line when he does. Robin? -- I guess I should talk to you (by private e-mail) about what you may or may not have for my collection. Unfortunately, I don't think I have your address. Haven't registered yet for the Munchkin Convention; I guess I better get my act together. When are we supposed to start discussing _The Road to Oz_? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:36:30 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Dave Hardenbrook, I'm glad to meet another "Lost Horizon" fan. I think the movie is marvelous. I never made the connection with Oz before, but I can't deny your parallels. I would disagree with you on one thing, though. The nome king is a powerful figure. Conway's brother is merely a cowardly jerk. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 12:07:27 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Tyler: I still wonder what Chris found non-HACC-worthy in QUEEN ANN, GLASS CAT, or CHRISTMAS, if, as you say, he's probably read them and still thinks HOW THE WIZARD CAME TO OZ is the most HACC-worthy of the BoW publications. Joel: I think several of the more active Digesters - Robin and Steve, for two - have already left home on their respective ways to Asilomar. I'm leaving tomorrow and won't be back to the Digest until Monday. This is probably my last post until then, unless there's a Digest fairly early this evening. See you at Asilomar, though I'm not bringing any kids. (My only "kid" is 31...) Ruth: I'll certainly comment on the doings at Winkies; whether I go into the detail I did on Ozmopolitian will depend on how much time I have once I'm back, and how vivid my memories are. Richard Saunders: If you're only buying to read, but prefer hardcovers, Books of Wonder has most of the ones you need available in very nice reprint editions - all but GLINDA, COWARDLY LION, GRAMPA, HUNGRY TIGER, PURPLE PRINCE, WISHING HORSE, and HIDDEN VALLEY, and the IWOC has WISHING HORSE and HIDDEN VALLEY. The Baums, ROYAL BOOK, and WISHING HORSE have color plates if the original did, and all of the hardcovers have dust jackets, but I imagine you could live with them. The Baums are generally $20-22, and the Neills and McGraw $25. I just checked my latest "Oz Collector" and their editions of HANDY MANDY, SILVER PRINCESS, MAGICAL MIMICS, and SHAGGY MAN are PB only ($13 each), but are full-size and thus almost as good as HCs. BoW's toll-free number for orders is 800-835-4315; if you want to get the "Oz Collector" sent to you you may have to call their main number, (212) 989-3270. John K.: I was thinking of the inclusion of horns in the "woodwind quintet" when I said they were sometimes classified with woodwinds. I didn't mean that in isolation anyone would call a horn a woodwind. Dave: I don't think the day Ozma took the throne would be celebrated as an Ozian "Independence Day," since Ozma's accession didn't affect the independence of Oz from any outside power. Dorothy's destructions of the Wicked Witches might be celebrated as something like two separate "Independence Days" by the Munchkins and Winkies, although again it wasn't a case of independence but liberation from tyranny. If anything, Ozma's accession marked the end of relative independence for the four major quarters of Oz, since before that they seem to have been basically free from the central authority of the Emerald City, at least for some decades. The Wizard, the Scarecrow, and Jinjur all claim to be no more than the ruler of the Emerald City, and in fact in LAND it appears that Pastoria and Ozma are also only rulers of the central green zone. (There are frequent references to "the throne of the Emerald City," and none I can find to "the throne (or rulership) of Oz." Granted, I may have missed such a reference.) It would appear that sometime during the interval between the end of LAND and OZMA that the four quarters of Oz became (willingly, of course) subject to Ozma's authority; in later books Ozma says that her ancestors ruled all of Oz. Haven't watched "Lost Horizon" in a long time, but the similarities between Shangri-La and Oz are interesting. Although arguably this is just because both fall into the long line of utopian literature that goes back at least as far as Plato's Atlantis. I suspect that Hilton was more influenced by that whole tradition than by Oz itself, though it wouldn't be surprising to find out that he'd read the early Oz books. (I don't know if he was young enough to have read them as a child, though. Anyone with the right kind of reference books know when he was born?) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:52:46 -0400 (EDT) From: JHughes460@aol.com Subject: Wizard of Oz Is the stuff you send out all related to the original story? Do you know how one can get a copy of the original movie script? I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks!!! Jody Jhughes460@aol.com [Another non-member..could someone E-mail them in private? Thanks! -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 18:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 John Dough: The problem with the advent of pay toilets is that one needs to carry around alot of that in case of dire need . . . Craig: It just proves you're not Greek--otherwise your cousins would not have wanted to be around you (bearing gifts as you were). Support for LFB as honored author: Sure! Petition the OD, Bugle, journals of literature, Supreme Court--anything and everything possible to give to our faorite series' founder the honor he's earned! That's my opinion, at least. --JEREMY STEADMAN (with kiex) KIEX: You promised not to do that! What happened to our truce? Huh? Jeremy: Treat me like that and I'll never grant your wishes. Hey--what's with the baseball bat? Oh, no--AHHHH! KIEX: So there! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:10:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Web: My web page has been updated with new BEOO reviews by David Hulan. Posts: The standard Compuserve method, just writing a message in the create mail box with no hard returns in paragraphs, seems to be working fine. Also, an advantage is that I no longer have to switch back and forth from a DOS box or use the send file command. Are most of us about ready to move to _Road_ as the BCF? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 19:20:12 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Semantic question for Ozzie Digesters Hello there, This is completely off the subject, but it has been bugging me since the probe landed on Mars. Possibly I have too much time on my hands. I have found in the past that Digesters are a veritable font of knowledge, a cornucopia of information on any subject, and would like some advice on this one. Does not the prefix geo- refer to this planet, The Earth, Terra? And does not the word geology mean the science of or the study of earthly phenomena, especially rocks? Do we not then have to coin another term for the study of similar phenomena on Mars? Isn't the use of the word geology to describe what's happening now on Mars a misnomer? Awaiting your discussion with bated breath. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:55:33 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 On the subject of "cornet bands", I should have mentioned earlier that one of the regular contingents in the Independence Day parade here in Chatham, NJ is the Bloomfield (NJ) Cornet Band, which appears to be a pretty standard band, except that they follow British, rather than American custom, in using a reed section dominated by saxophones, rather than clarinets -- but they are a small band, and it may reflect only the fortunes of recruitment. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: >Patrick Moore said not to get our hopes >up because he expects they won't honor a 20th century author, but there's >no harm in trying... Although Baum survived into the 20th century, and most of his career as a writer took place in the 20th century, "The Wizard of Oz" was published and copyright in the 19th century. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 20:13:10 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Sorry to pester you! Just wondering if there are any sites out there with OZ book reviews? If not, just wondering how you would rate the first 20 official oz books or if I can get anyone's opinion! If I was to give out ratings for the first 5 books they would be this: Wizard of Oz (9 out of 10) Land of Oz (7.5) Ozma of Oz (10) Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (8) Road to Oz (4)- didn't like the ending chapters at all. Only the Scoodlers and the Shaggy Man save this book for me! :-) ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 12, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:28:49 -0700 From: Lee Subject: Wizard of Oz books Hello. My name is Lee. I am a teacher in the Los Angeles area. I have eleven old Oz books that have been in my family since before WWII. They have been in storage for twenty years. When last used, some of them received amature spinal repairs. Overall, though, the partial set has its attraction. I am seeking to sell them at a fair price (they are certainly not in excellent condition) to an Oz fan/collector. If you know of anyone in search of this type of item, please send them to my website addition which I put together to share the collection more easily. The eleven photos there are worth the visit! http://www.smartlink.net/~yesman/oz.html These are cloth cover books each with a colorful paper illustration on the front cover. The Waddle Book is the only book with color illustrations. Waddles not included. : ( Thank you, Lee ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:58:47 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: Bert Lahr also played the Cowardly Lion with stereotyped homosexual gestures. The most obvious is the "limp wrist" gesture on "I'm just a dandy-lion." Nathan Lane's version of the role was Lahr-style. Craig Noble: I don't know of a Wisconsin Oz museum, but I wonder if the sign your folks saw was pointing the way to Grand Rapids MN, where there's Judy Garland stuff. Dave Hardenbrook: On Ozian national holidays -- Ozma's birthday seems to be celebrated as a national holiday in "Road" and "Wonder City." The party in "Magic" seems to be smaller and more private, though. David Hulan: James Hilton was 1900-1954. In publication dates, that's young enough to have read the early ones in childhood, but the Oz books didn't have the kind of popularity in Britain they did in America, so he wouldn't have been particularly likely to have read them. Even now, the only example I know of a direct reference to Oz in British fantasy is only a reference to the MGM movie (in Terry Pratchett's hilarious "Witches Abroad" -- and not counting an interview with Paul Darrow, who who played the Avon in "Blake's 7," in which, commenting on his silver costume in one episode, he and his wife broke into "We're Off to See the Wizard"). If Keith Laumer is British (I'm not sure of his background -- his brother March lived in Hong Kong a long time), he referred to Oz, and specifically to the Oz books, in some of his work. But by contrast, American writers referring to the Oz books include Bradbury, Boucher, Dick, Eager, Farmer, Heinlein, Wolfe, and so on. An important factor may be that 20th century British f/sf writers had a strong 19th century background of fantasy writing to give them a tradition to be writing in. Brian Attebery, in his study of American fantasy, argued that Baum was the first American writer to write fantasy primarily and successfully, and so was a major figure for most 20th century American f/sf writers. Bob Spark: Terms like areology can be coined for Mars, but the system of separate words for each planet or moon (selenology) is far too clumsy once multiple other planets and moons start coming into consideration. Earth (Gaia) capitalized means this planet, but earth/geo- applies well enough to any planetary body. "The Road to Oz": I've been trying to remember what I thought of it before reading "Who's Who in Oz," but I can't separate it out. Perhaps I guessed, even before I knew from Snow, that the closing chapters were bringing in people from other stories. Even without having read the other stories (it took me some years of haunting used bookstores to track down copies), I was delighted by the idea of the-world-of-Oz, with Baum's awareness of a continent-sized geography and interactions of many unusual countries. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:52:42 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-11-97 > Does not the prefix geo- refer to this planet, The Earth, Terra? >And does not the word geology mean the science of or the study of >earthly phenomena, especially rocks? > Do we not then have to coin another term for the study of similar >phenomena on Mars? Isn't the use of the word geology to describe what's >happening now on Mars a misnomer? One occasionally finds reference to "selenology", and I suppose "areology" is possible for Mars. However, the question then arises: What do you call the general subject, since, broadly speaking, rocks is rocks? And then, of course, everyone always has to fall back on "geology", anyway, so the whole exercise seems kinda pointless. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:18:21 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) Good grief! He's infected me. Hopefully we will wait on the BOCF until a bunch of us return from Winkies. Bob with "bated" breath - orbits around earth - geocentric (actually means the center of the earth is the origin - in Keplerian terms, one focus of an elliptical orbit, circular is just a special case), around the sun - heliocentric, around moon - lunicentric or selenocentric, around Mars - the term is areocentric. Don't ask me about Venus. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:10:19 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dave: A lot of people have asked about stuff regarding the script for the MGM movie. If you could post this info on your FAW, it might make things easier. THE WIZARD OF OZ : THE SCREENPLAY Edited by Noel Langley, FLorence Ryerson and Edgar Allan Woolf A Delta book, published by Dell Publishing, a division of Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing Group, Inc. 1989 ISBN 0-385-29760-2 I'll e-mail Eric and ask him to do the same thing. Bob: Hmmm, possibly correct in a technical sense, but it would soon get confusing to have to reinvent the words "geology", "geography" and so on for every planet, especially if we ever move out to the stars. There's a related quote in one of the Foundation books, but I'll only let loose with it if the discussion seems to lean the other way. Dave: Are DOug and Lori Silfen regulars to the Digest? I mailed them privately, just in case. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 12:40:06 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks for info., Tyler -- I guess the time has come for me to write an MGM section for the FAQ ( You can only take being asked about the "hanging man" so many times... :) ) I hereby decree that the official starting day for our _Road_ discussions is Monday the 21th... Let's see Hermology, Aphroditology, Lunology, Areology, Jovology, Ioology, Europology, Ganymedology, Callistology, Cronology, Titanology, Uranology, Posidonology, Tritonology, Plutonology... I think we'd better just stick to "geology". :) Seriously, my understanding is that "geo" or "gea" *can* mean just "land" in general...That's where "Baumgea" comes from! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:47:01 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz Digest stuff Lori and I just subscribed to the Ozzy Digest. We have always been fans of the 1939 movie and just recently started to read the Oz books before going to sleep as something fun to do. So far, I, Douglas have read the first 6 books. I'm starting the Patchwork Girl tomorrow. Anybody have a favorite Ruth Thompson Oz book?? and why? :-) Doug and Lori ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:38:54 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-97 Ruth, John, Bear, Tyler, Dave, Thanks for a cogent and timely reply to my question about geology. I note that there is definitely a concensus. This must prove something about great minds. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-97 Ruth B.: You say that Baum was the "first American writer to write fantasy primarily and successfully"--as I recall, Baum did not consider the Oz series among his best or favorite works. (Or am I mixing him up with some other famous writer?) Bear: You say, "Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) Good grief! He's infected me." I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about there. (KIEX: And so let it remain!) Tyler: Re the Foundation books' Gaia complex--all the Girls wanted to get in there, so they resorted to starring. (a weak attempt at humor, perhaps, but a necessary one from my standpoint. Oh, I'm an Asimov fanatic myself) Dave: You list the horrible consequences of deriving a new name for the "geologic" forces of each astronomical body ["Let's see Hermology, Aphroditology, Lunology, Areology, Jovology, Ioology, Europology, Ganymedology, Callistology, Cronology, Titanology, Uranology,Posidonology, Tritonology, Plutonology... I think we'd better just stick to "geology". :)" ] A further problem, of course, is the bodily function Uranology suggests . . . I like your solution. --Jeremy Steadman, Kiex presiding. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:30:15 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Hanging: Eric already has a section in his FAQ about this, so once your FAQ gets updated (at least as far as the hanging man myth), then we will at least stem part of the tide. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:31:49 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Further thoughts on "geology" Hi Y'all, Sorry for the second post. While all of your answers made sense to me, I believe that if I were a Martian, I would resent them on the basis of "geoism". A professor of mine used to call it the egocentric geocentric viewpoint. I am interested in that quote from the _Foundation_ series. It's been a long time since I've reread them. If you don't want to put it on the "Digest", how 'bout letting me know where to find it privately? It just struck me as interesting that people who grew up on the _Oz_ books seem to have similar tastes in other readings. I wonder if this is an example of great minds thinking alike, or if the _Oz_ books (or possibly the general areas of childhood reading) engender these proclivities. Bob Spark ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Bob: << It just struck me as interesting that people who grew up on the _Oz_ books seem to have similar tastes in other readings. I wonder if this is an example of great minds thinking alike, or if the _Oz_ books (or possibly the general areas of childhood reading) engender these proclivities.>> I wonder, do we have similar tastes in other readings? Based on what I've read on the Digest, that seems to be at least superficially true. Back when we did the Digest poll, I remember thinking that non-Oz reading tastes would be a good question. I have a feeling that some of my non-Oz favorites may be different from others. For example, anyone here like John McPhee or Edward Abbey? How about Ray Bradbury, Virginia Woolf, Cormac McCarthy? Other faves of mine I'm sure other Oz fans also like, such as Tolkien and the Chronicles of Narnia. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:00 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline >Bear: You say, >"Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) >Good grief! He's infected me." >I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about there. The previous post you had Kiex (sounds like a radio station) attacking you with a BAT. Protect yourself, punster. Bob - I think you can count on subscribers to this digest having a taste for SF and fantasy literature. Now let's all give a big Digest Welcome to all the returning WINKIES. At least as soon as they catch up on their sleep and get over their jet lag. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Hey everyone! This is a really strange question but...I read somewhere that a Baum quote from the intro of Lost Princess is on a Celestial Seasonings tea box. Does anyone know which flavor this is? BTW, I'm writing an Oz book with a friend...no title yet (possibly The Curious Cottabi of Oz or The Moon Sapphire of Oz). I want to use Kabumpo, who is featured in Kabumpo, Purple Prince, and Silver Princess of the FF (so far as I know). Purple Prince is not in Public Domain yet...can I still use the Elegant Elephant? Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:33:44 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-13-97 Doug & Lori: Welcome to the Digest! We start discussing The Road to Oz next monday, so you've come aboard at a good time. My favorite Thompson Oz books? Kabumpo in Oz, Handy Mandy in Oz, and Grandpa in Oz, in that order. Why? Just story line and great characters. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:11:57 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Doug and Lori: Congrats on starting in on the books. The movie is wonderful, and I'm sure you'll find that there is a tremendous amount of material in the books that goes far beyond everything that you imagined. My favorite Thompson book is _Captain Salt in Oz_. This is an unusual book since it is the only story in the original series that never actually reaches the Land of Oz. Nevertheless, I found it to be a great adventure story. Also close to the top are _Kabumpo in Oz_ and _The Wishing Horse of Oz_, mainly for the quality with which the stories were written. Kiex: True enough. Baum considered his Oz stories to be hack work, not anywhere near his "best", although history has judged differently. Also, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did not particularly care for his Sherlock Holmes stories. It really is interesting how differently authors and fans sometimes view material. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:23:31 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Here I am, you lucky people, back from the wilds of New Hampshire. Starting at the very beginning of the stack of Digests waiting for me... In the 7/4 Digest, David Hulan asks to what city I would bus by myself as a child. It was Springfield, Massachusetts. Also, David asks if I spoke in jest in my long diatribe on terseness. Yes -- and I'm glad it provoked a laugh. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:15:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Doug and Lori: My favorite Thompson (so far) is probably _The Gnome Kinjg of Oz_, probably because it had the most action, and I was a teenager when I read it. Jeremy and Kiex: Baum declared _The Scarecrow of Oz_ his best book ever. There is a show on HBO called _Oz_ which I have heard has something to do with a prison. Anyone know why it's called Oz. Is it kind of like _Wild at Heart_ in that they dream of escaping there? I don't have basic cable or premium channels, so I can't find out myself. There's also a late-night (oir rather early morning) show on low power local channel 53 here in Indianapolis called _Aerobics Oz Style_, which I imagine might be better called _Aerobics Aussie Style_, but I've never seen it, either. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:16:11 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests, 07-11 & 13-97 My copy of the 7/12 Digest (which apparently exists, judging from some comments in the 7/13 Digest) seems to have disappeared into the maw of the Internet somewhere, so I'll only comment on the two that accumulated while I was at Winkies. (Which was a great con; I'll do a report on it later today or maybe tomorrow.) 7/11: Craig: I have a copy of _Merry-Go-Round_ from R&L, bought new. According to Bib Oz this is a first edition, but apparently some of the earliest copies were distributed with a dust jacket, even though the binding was the "white cloth" type that were usually distributed without DJ. Mine never had a DJ, and it appears from the discussion in Bib Oz that not many copies did (and presumably a fair number of those copies no longer have theirs). Tyler: I'm ready to move on to ROAD, though I confess I haven't reread it specifically for this discussion. I'll start that tonight. But I await Dave's Official go-ahead. Bob: I've seen the terms "areography" and "areology" used for the equivalents of "geography" and "geology" when Mars is in question, but personally think that since the disciplines are the same, it's just as well to stick to the traditional terms even if their translation from Greek isn't strictly accurate. If we start doing serious space traveling then replacing the traditional terms with "planetography" and "planetology" for the generic disciplines would probably be a good idea. (I know other people have already commented on this question, but I don't yet know what they said so thought I'd add my tuppence worth.) Douglas: As far as I know there aren't any reviews of the Famous Forty Oz books on the Internet, though it may be I just don't know about them. I've given my personal ratings of them all in the Digest a while back; I won't repeat them here, but will try to remember to do so in private E-mail a bit later today. These reflect my own views only, needless to say, which aren't necessarily those of other Oz fans. 7/13: Douglas: Yes, I have a favorite RPT book: _The Wishing Horse of Oz_. As to why - it's well-plotted adventure, without the collection of silly little towns with weird inhabitants that are so prevalent in her books, and we get to see and, largely, understand all the main characters, including the villains. _Speedy in Oz_ is almost as good, but most of it takes place outside of Oz itself and none of the continuing Oz characters plays a major role in the book. _Ojo in Oz_, _Handy Mandy in Oz_, and _The Silver Princess in Oz_ are other Thompson books that I think are well above her average, with _The Lost King of Oz_, _The Hungry Tiger of Oz_, and _The Yellow Knight of Oz_ also quite good. These are the Thompson books that I personally rate up with Baum's books (and better than _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and _Road_, which I consider pretty inferior Oz books even though Baum wrote them). Jeremy: I don't think Baum "did not consider the Oz series among his best or favorite works," although I've heard he thought _Sky Island_ was his best book. Since I agree with him on that, I can't really argue the point. But I think that was the only one of his non-Oz books that he thought was better than his better Oz books. (Incidentally, it would be "selenology", not "lunology"; "hadeology," not "plutology"; and something like "zeutology" (I'm not sure what the combining form of "Zeus" would be), not "jovology". I.e., the major planets have Latin names, but the discipline would take the equivalent Greek form.) Bob: If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that there aren't), then they probably would resent as much the study of their planet's structure being called by a name from an Earth language as its using a name that implied "Earth." David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:55:22 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: I think Baum probably did regard the Oz books as among his best and favorite works. He was getting tired of doing them when he tried to break off the series with "Emerald City," but that isn't necessarily the same as disliking the ones he'd already done. After a couple of years of doing other books (that didn't sell as well), he came back to Oz, and there are arguments about whether his later Oz books are as good as the earlier ones, but a flling off at the end wouldn't really affect the quality of the series-at-its-best. (For that matter, I don't know that there'd be much agreement even to the idea that Baum's later Oz books are poorer than the earlier ones on average.) When he died, his last words were, "Now we can cross the shifting sands," and that sounds as if he thought a lot of the Oz books. Considering that he pulled most of his non-Oz fantasies into the same world geographically, and so in a sense made them into part of the series, it's hard to see what he wrote that he could have considered better than his "Oz" books. His best non- Oz books are pretty much all the ones that he made part of the Oz-world. Douglas and Lori Silfen: I think some of my favorites among RPT's Oz books are "Lost King" (besides, it's "historically" important, in Oz history, that is), "Ojo" (I like Realbad), "Yellow Knight" (interesting adaptation of knights-in-armor material to Oz surroundings), and "Ozoplaning" (most of the others who'vve commented on it here don't care for it, but I like the world-building). And her sea-voyages on the Nonestic are good, too, and then there's Jinnicky, and -- it's about as hard for me to pick favorites with RPT as with Baum. (And if you find that you enjoy her Oz books, don't forget that the IWOC has reprinted her "Curious Cruise of Captain Santa" and the collection, "The Wizard of Way-Up," as well as printing two late Oz books from her, "Yankee" and "Enchanted Island." Theoretically, the IWOC plans someday to bring out another collection of her shorter stuff, "Sissajig and other surprises.") Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Saundersrl@aol.com Subject: Digest To: DAVEH47@delphi.com First, do you have any of the books I need: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz The Marvelous Land of Oz Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz Pirates in Oz The Purple Prince of Oz The Pachwork Girl of Oz The Scarecrow of Oz The Wishing Horse of Oz Handy Mandy in Oz The Silver Princess in Oz Glinda of Oz The Wonder City of Oz The Scalawagons of Oz Lucky Bucky in Oz The Cowardly Lion of Oz The Magical Mimics in Oz Grampa in Oz The Shaggy Man of Oz The Hidden Vally Of Oz Merry Go Round in Oz I'm only looking for these books in later prints,no dust jackets,no writing,no water damage.But must have paper label. Next how do I subscribe to the digest,I would like info on it or just put me on. Thanks, Richard Saunders ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 13:32:43 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Scott wrote: >There is a show on HBO called _Oz_ which I have heard has something to do >with a prison. Anyone know why it's called Oz. I don't have HBO either, but there's a little info. about the show on their web page ... Apparently, it's about a rehabilitiation prison called "The Emerald City" ... One again, our Oz is maligned... David H. wrote: >If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that there >aren't), then they probably would resent as much the study of their >planet's structure being called by a name from an Earth language as its >using a name that implied "Earth." On a related note, I am in the middle of a book called, _Yes, We Have No Neutrons_ about "bad science"...One of the things it discusses is how geocentric our searches for life elsewhere has been, including, regrettably, our of course favorite search program ever, "Project Ozma". My favorite Thompson books are _Wishing Horse_ and _Silver Princess_, and I'm glad that at last there's someone else (Ruth) who likes _Ozoplaning_... Of course _Ozoplaning_ is one of my favorites because it's the only book in or out of the FF (my as-yet unpublished works excluded) in which Jellia Jamb, one of my very favorite Ozites, has anything like a starring role... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 15, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 if anyone is in michigan (besides me) the flint planitarium (sic) is having laser oz what that means is they are doing a laser light show to the wizard of oz soundtrack i havent gone yet i havent had time but im planning on it and ill report back if anyone is in mich and wants to go email me off the digest ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi all. I just bought a copy of Dot and Tot of Merryland. It's in incredibly good condition. Bottom of the spine is a little scuffed. It's dark green, with red and black printing on the front cover and spine, DONOHUE on bottom of spine, really clean, copyright 1901. The rear endpapers are starting to give at the spine, but not yet, and some slight [[water??]] stainage on the right side edge of the cover. I paid a good amount for it, but I'm willing to trade it because I am really desperate to start an Oz collection. I'm looking for the later Thompson Oz books, like Silver Princess, Handy Mandy, Captain Salt, Ojo, and also Yellow knight. They were my favorites. It's impossible to find them here. I'd trade, or partial trade and partial sell this book for any of them. I prefer hardbacks, older editions. First editions are NOT important to me, and condition is not a big deal either. Please let me know if you are interested. Thanks! Kieran M. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:56:55 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12 & 14-97 Dave was kind enough to re-send the 7/12 Digest, so once again I'll comment on two: 7/12: Lee: Depending on which titles you have, maybe you should get in touch with Richard Saunders (saunders@aol.com), who appears to be looking for just the sort of thing you're offering. Ruth: I didn't even know Hilton was British. I agree that in that case he's unlikely to have read the Oz books, even though he's the right age; they don't seem to have been at all popular in Britain. (Not sure they were even for sale there; I recall the letter from some kids in Australia to Baum from an afterword to one of the books that implied they weren't available there.) I can't remember details of what I thought of _Road_ as a child, but I know that my memories of it were much fonder before I finally acquired a copy in the mid-'60s and reread it. (This was also true, to a lesser extent, of _Tik-Tok_. _Ozma_ and _Scarecrow_, on the other hand, I remembered less fondly from my original reading, but liked very much upon rereading. _DotWiz_ and _Glinda_ I found about the same when I eventually acquired them as I remembered them. The other Baums I'd owned all along, so any changes in my perception of them was gradual enough that I'm not aware of it.) 7/14: Craig: Some of your favorite authors I don't even recognize, and of the rest I've only read Bradbury - though he's not a favorite of mine. (Not counting, of course, Tolkien and Narnia - though in the former case it's only _The Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ that I really like, and in the latter my rapture is distinctly modified.) My favorite reasonably prolific writers outside Oz are Edgar Rice Burroughs, L. Sprague de Camp, Georgette Heyer, Harry Turtledove, and Robert E. Howard. As you may note, I'm not much into the Deep stuff. Bear: I haven't really caught up on my sleep yet, but I should be able to finish this post before I feel the need to drop off again... Sarah: It's possible to use Kabumpo in a book now, but you have to be careful to avoid any reference to anything that happened in a copyright book (and he appeared in several that are still under copyright - _Lost King_ and _Forbidden Fountain_ as well as _Purple Prince_, not to mention all of the Neill books, though Neill's use of him is so at variance with Thompson's that you're not likely to infringe there if you stick to Thompson's characterization). Good luck with your story, by the way. Dick: _Kabumpo_ is one of those Oz books that I enjoy thinking about considerably more than I enjoy rereading. It has really quite a good story line, and interesting characters, but every time I reread it I find that it doesn't quite hang together right. I don't know if it's the pacing (though I think that's probably a lot of it), or something else, but it's one that could probably have used a good editor (which R&L doesn't seem to have had on staff, alas). _Grampa_ is another one that you like more than I do; I like Grampa himself very much, and Tatters and Urtha are fine, but Percy Vere is a pain in the patootie and spoils the book for me. We agree that _Handy Mandy_ is one of RPT's best, though. Tyler: I don't think that Baum thought his Oz books were "not anywhere near his "best", though he'd gotten tired of writing them long before the series was finished. I doubt seriously that he preferred "Aunt Jane's Nieces" or "Twinkle and Chubbins" or the like. As I said last post, I've heard that he (like me) considered _Sky Island_ his best book, but ISTR that it was the only non-Oz book that he considered better than his favorites among the Oz series. Earl: I didn't exactly "ask" if you spoke in jest in your diatribe about terseness; I said I was almost certain you were doing so. You've demonstrated too much intelligence (even if you are a Republican... ;-) ) and writing skill to have written something like that without its being in jest. Scott: I think Baum only declared that _Scarecrow_ was his best _Oz_ book. According to the review in the Chicago _Tribune_, the HBO show "Oz" is called that because it's set in the "Oswald Correctional Facility" - which naturally leads the inmates to call it "Oz", or by extension "The Emerald City". That's the only thin connection with "our" Oz. I wish they hadn't done it, but at least it's only on a pay channel, so it's probably not going to have much more effect than the various Australia-based stories, etc., using "Oz" as part of their titles. Oz, for the Great American Public, is still going to mean the MGM movie; the books, though still running a poor second, are probably going to remain in second place in terms of recognition despite this series. Ruth: I certainly don't agree that Baum's Oz series fell off in quality in the later books. My personal favorite (_Lost Princess_) is fairly close to the end. I find the quality fluctuates unpredictably through the course of the series, probably influenced by a lot of external factors; I personally feel the 3d, 7th, 10th, and 11th books are the best and the 4th, 5th, and 12th the worst - which doesn't correlate at all with any kind of uniformitarian hypothesis (either decline as his imagination ran out, or improvement as he got more practice at writing). Incidentally, I picked up a copy of _Wonderful Wizard, Marvelous Land_ at Winkies and read it on the plane flying home. While it had some interesting things to say, I don't recommend this book unless you can get it Really Cheap. (Since I paid Herm, who's probably the most reasonably-priced dealer around, $15 for it, you'd have to find a copy at a garage sale or the like to get it for what I think it's worth - which is about $3.) It's rife with inaccuracies (Betsy Bobbin involved with Pon and Gloria? C'mon! And that's just one out of scores.), and the author has an inflated opinion of the early books and a depressed one of the later ones. Plus, as a book written in 1974, she makes a big deal about how the Counterculture is reviving the popularity of Oz...when in retrospect, the Counterculture is essentially dead, and the popularity of Oz is steadily increasing (due in great part, I must say, to Books of Wonder, though Del Rey has also had a major hand in it). If you can find it in a library it's probably worth checking out just for laughs at the errors, but don't, by all means, take it seriously! (This addressed to the Digest in general; I imagine that you, Ruth, have already read it long ago.) World-building in _Ozoplaning_? I guess a little bit, but it's not something I really associate with that book. I rate it right down with _Road_ and _Hidden Valley_ as the worst of the FF not by Neill. And this is one that I've owned since I was a child, so I've reread it often over the years. Dave: Mention of your unpublished works reminds me that I was told at Winkies that the three finalists for the Centennial Contest have been selected. Their identities won't be revealed, but at least it means that now it should be safe for us to talk about our contest entries on the Digest (unless you find that Rachel Cosgrove Payes or Eloise Jarvis McGraw ha