] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:29:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Questionnaire: Newbies should feel free to mail me their responses if they wish to do so. I'd suggest using BOTH my e-mail addresses, since neither one seems entirely reliable at the moment. Well, AOL is reliable, but sometimes unattainable with busy circuits. #1. robino@tenet.edu #2. Ozmama@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:47:42 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Robin: I got OZIANA sometime last week (Thursday or Friday, I think), but forgot to mention it. I agree; it's good, and there's a lot of material from Digest folks in it. Incidentally, for the rest of you (since Robin knows this), I've completed an Index to Oziana, 1971-1996 (meaning the whole thing up through last year). It hasn't been decided yet what it will cost, but I hope it will be listed as available in the next list of offerings from the IWOC this fall. (I may go ahead and add the 1997 issue to it while I'm waiting; there should be room without adding a page.) Ted: Money was apparently still used in Oz at the time of LAND, since the ferryman in an early part of the book wouldn't transport Tip, the Sawhorse, and Jack across a river because he had no money. But the money in the Scarecrow was what he was stuffed with in the Jackdaws' Nest (which was outside Oz) after he sacrificed his straw to save Tip and the Woggle-bug. As a note, he ended the book as Royal Treasurer for the Tin Woodman and the Empire of the Winkies, not for Ozma and Oz as a whole. In fact, the evidence is that the Wizard, the Scarecrow, and Ozma at the end of LAND only ruled the Emerald City area; it was sometime between the end of LAND and the beginning of OZMA that Ozma came to rule all Oz. (And it's only in later books that there's any evidence that Ozma's ancestors ruled all Oz; I don't think that Baum was thinking along those lines - from an Oz-as-literature point of view - at the time he wrote the first two books. At that time I think he thought of Oz as consisting of five independent countries.) Bob: >Is it just my overstimulated imagination or do I hear echoes of >C.S. Lewis' quite excellent _Out Of The Silent Planet_, _Perelandra_, >and _That Hideous Strength_ trilogy? I think it's more that Lewis was echoing Greco-Roman "science". He obviously didn't think much of the modern version. Incidentally, although I enjoyed the "Silent Planet" trilogy the first time I read it, as a college student, when I reread it later I found the first two books rather boring, with Ransom spending most of his time sitting around being lectured. And when that wasn't happening the anti-science bias turned me off. _That Hideous Strength_, while also anti-science, at least had the virtue of not being boring. YMMV. Earl: Your informant probably mixed up the Maneken Pis and the Little Mermaid, which is the really famous statue in Copenhagen. Images of both are prime tourist souvenirs for their respective cities (like the Eiffel Tower for Paris and the Houses of Parliament for London). Steve: You can also add the Glass Cat, Scraps, and Victor Columbia Edison to those entities brought to life by the Powder of Life that managed to speak without lungs. (VCE did have his speaker, but that would presumably only let him play records, not speak independently.) Barb B.: No objections from me to your putting my answers to the poll/questionnaire on your Web page. And I encourage anyone reading and enjoying the Digest who hasn't responded to it to do so. (If a lot of people do it at once, Dave can make it a separate item from the Digest as he did last time. If they just trickle in two or three a day, they could be included.) I assume, since he's sounded positive about it, that Dave has no objections to the extra work for himself. Dave: Unless, like Chris D., you think Ozma is physically just a little girl (I think Chris avers that she's only 8 years old, though he's never cited any evidence for it), there's nothing perverted about wanting to marry her. If you accept Baum's statement - the only one that pins an actual age - that she looks 14 or 15 then she's physically old enough for marriage (that was considered sort of late through much of human existence), and although 14 or 15 isn't mentally and emotionally old enough for marriage in our present society (even though it happens), mental and emotional age are surely more closely related to chronological than physical age - and chronologically Ozma is older than any of us! (Even if we only count from when she was born as a human, and not her fairy beginnings.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:28:50 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gordon Birrell: I was thinking some more about the possibility that the bit of music in the dedication to "Road" is a quotation from the 1902 stage "Wizard." I wonder if anyone in the group has (or knows someone who has) music for the "Ball of All Nations" group of songs. The "Irish" song includes a line, "Arrah, come all ye now and listen," that would fit those notes, and a song about how the "Patsy Casey twins" didn't get christened because they couldn't agree on a place would be sort of appropriate, in a comically backhand way, to a dedication to a newborn grandchild. Barbara Belgrave: You asked about the Wogglebug's "Ode to Ozma." I wonder if someone (Robin?) knows the music from "The Wogglebug" to say if there's a song in the play that might plausibly be considered the Wogglebug's "Ode to Ozma." (I suppose it would be too Wogglebuggish to hope that Melody Grandy would comment on some of these grand melodies?) Jane Albright: If it isn't a question you've taken up in a previous Gazette, you might draw on the question discussed a bit in the Oz Digs lately: Who are the guests from outside the Oz books invited to Ozma's "Road" birthday party, what stories do they come from, and do they show up again? Answers: from "Dot and Tot in Merryland," Queen Dolly (mentioned "Magical Mimics") and Candy Prime Minister; from "John Dough and the Cherub, " John Dough and Chick the Cherub (both mentioned "Magic"), also Parabruin, Hilanders, and Lolanders; from "Zixie of Ix," Bud (mentioned "Magic"), Fluff, and Zixi (mentioned "Magic," "Wishing Horse," and "Silver Princess"); from "Life and Adventures of Santa Claus," Santa Claus (mentioned "Ozma," "Magic," "Merry-go-Round," and appears in "Queer Visitors" episode "How the Wogglebug and His Friends Visited Santa Claus"), also Ryls and Knooks. A related question might be: Who are the people not from the Oz books on the "Road" enpapers? Answer: Ali Dubh, Sir Pyse Bocks, Brotherhood of Failings, Duo the Two-Headed Dog, and Jules Grogrande, all from "John Dough." Perhaps also it would be appropriate to put in a listing of museums with notable Oz material around the country? // Congratulations on the Denslow-Roycroft acquisitions! Doug Parker: Enjoyed the library recollections. Barbara Belgrave: enjoyed the computerese Oz castle. Bear: I don't think you re-read the message you posted yourself to which I was replying when you replied to me. To repeat: (1) you complained, What sort of a person steals a child's pet dog?; (2) I replied, Shaggy was not stealing Toto, he was stealing apples and presumably intended to free Toto when he got out of sight; (3) you replied, Stealing is stealing, and added sarcastically, "Is this modern thinking?"; and (4) I commented, "If you don't think stealing a child's dog is significantly worse than stealing a few apples, you shouldn't have asked the original question." I suppose it's inaccurate to say you shouldn't have asked the original question, since at the time you thought Shaggy intended to steal Toto. But your stealing-is-stealing answer, in the context of that sequence of messages, seems to imply that you think stealing a few apples is just as bad as stealing a child's dog. If you do, that point could be argued (or dismissed as something-we-agree-to-disagree-on) -- but it seems unlikely that you really think stealing a few apples is just as bad as stealing a child's dog. (This seems an overly-lengthy answer, even verging on Rigmarolese, but there didn't seem to be a shorter way to do it.) Sorry it seems like a "flame" to you, but wasn't so intended. Tyler Jones and David Hulan: Perhaps it might be supposed that the no-aging spell over Oz has to some extent leaked out over the other countries around Oz over time, and that might be a reason to suppose that Chick and Bud and Fluff and Inga (and, for that matter, Evardo and the Evians) are close to the same age as when first seen. Douglas Silfen: The Woozy has a fair-sized role in "Lost Princess," but otherwise is only mentioned in the later Oz books. Harry Mongold (am I remembering the name right?) used him as the title character, in "The Woozy of Oz," which he self-published several years back. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:04:08 -0700 From: mbert@swbell.net Subject: Ozzy Digest As a new subscriber of the "Ozzy Digest", I have been spending the last two weeks just lurking about....absorbing the wisdom of those who post. Let me tell you....you have opened my eyes to a whole new realm. (more on this later!) OZ Books in Libraries: I had thought that this one had died some time ago...but I was in "BookStop" here in Austin TX recently and they were doing a 'Banned Books' display...and there it was..the WWO, along with Huckleberry Finn. In Round Rock, TX, just north of Austin, WWO was one of the recently targeted books by a radical right wing group. Of course, what do you expect from a county that almost kicked Apple Computers out of the area for offering domestic partnership benefits to their employees. I believe too, that the reasoning behind this is the use of magic and 'good witches' in the books. Wizard of Oz CD: Bill: Yes, there was a CD done of the 1995 "Wizard of Oz In Concert" special. It was offered by Turner Networks in a special,limited set, which included a script of the movie, a THX remastered video of the "Wizard of Oz", a video of the concert, the CD and several still shots from the 1939 film. My roommate suprized me with this set for Christmas. I wonder how he knew I was into the WWO...other than the fact that he often refers to the hallway as the 'Yellow Brick Road'. One question....In the WWOIC CD and video, much of the music that was cut from the 1939 film was restored. I want to know why the last verse of 'Over the Rainbow' was cut from the film. As far as I am concerned, this is the most moving portion of the song. As a new member, I will now move on to the 'questionaire'...oh gawd...I hate tests!!! NAME: Robert Schroeder, Jr DOB 1/22/57 Residence: Austin TX Profession: Retired / Health Unit Coordinator LOE: Associate Degree/Nursing Age of Discovery: oh geez, had to around 7 or 8, when I first remember seeing the 1939 film on CBS. How Discovered See above... How found Digest Couldn't sleep...websurfing....it happens! OZ Organizations Lifetime member of 'Friends of Dorothy' Primary Interest Film..but thanks to the Digest, I am beginning to look more towards the books. Currently collecting OZ related goodies...including autographs of the stars of the 1939 film. How Many Books: none...but am going to correct this soon! Current OZ Projects: I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects of OZ. Nothing concrete, yet... MOPPeTs Miss Piggy, Kermit, Elmo, Sweetums...what...Moppets you say? Oh well, never mind! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Ok guys, question: Does anyone know which of the FF are supposed to be the hardest to find in first edition? And what, say, a Fine first ed of Tin Woodman or Mint (with jacket) first of ed of Silver Princess is worth in these days and times? Sarah Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:34:50 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Re: Oz In Libraries: Our library here in Chula Vista, CA, had the Baum Oz books in the late 60's. (And they were usually checked out, too.) They only had one copy each of _Road_ and _Patchwork Girl_, which forced me to have to buy these volumes--which led me to have to buy all of them... Re: Steve Teller "A genuinely Ozzy (or at least Baum-y) event is scheduled for Aberdeen, SD August 8-10. Jane Albright and I will be there representing IWOC and many serious events are planned." I understand there is a HUGE controversy surrounding this event regarding some Baum editorials in his newspaper in the 1880's. Re: "The teamsters union was a very bad union, and should not be used as >a stick to beat all unions." Not to delve too much into a non-Ozzy issue here, but the key word in the above is *was* and also the fact that until recently the teamsters was the only union that was aligned with an opposite political party than the other unions. (Whew, did I manage to say that in a politically correct way?) Re: Polychrome's appearances She also makes an appearance in Lucky Bucky in a chapter entitled "Over The Rainbow" Re: Daves "Before terminating my AOL account, I tried to E-mail the elusive JelliaJamb through it, but with no success. I DID however discover about 40 people on AOL with "Ozma" in their screen names...." Has anyone tried to sign on to AOL with an "Ozzy" screen name? It's impossible! They're all taken! When I had AOL I tried to have an "Ozzy" screen name; I even went through the trouble of looking up fairly obscure names in _Who's Who in Oz_ with no luck. I finally settled on the name AOL gave me. All I can say it that if you're going to try to get an "Ozzy" screen name on AOL, you'd better have a good imagination and some time. Robin's Ozmama is a good example. Re: Dave's "It was also interesting to discover that there are (male) fans of Oz online who happily stated in their bios to be in love with Ozma and wanted to MARRY her..." This reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode ("Miniature") where Robert Duvall falls in love with a doll in a doll house. So I suppose the moral here is just don't lose sight of the fact that Ozma is a fictional character. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:45 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Guess my response to yesterday's Digest didn't make it to Dave in time to be included in today's. (If it isn't in tomorrow's I'll assume it went astray somehow and re-send it, even though by then much of it will be redundant.)(People who comment that much of most of my posts is redundant will get a superciliousstare.) Doug: It's only in a few books that it's said that living beings in Oz don't die. It does appear that after Ozma's accession (or restoration) no human dies of natural causes (though one of Billina's chicks dies of the pip), but there are many occasions when Ozites are destroyed, by accident or design. I don't think _time_ moves very slowly in Oz compared to here - if it did, then those Oz characters who return to America after days or weeks of adventuring in Oz wouldn't come back to find a similar amount of time had passed here. The aging process must be slowed, if not stopped, but not time itself. The only way to say that Oz is physically on our Earth and in our dimension is to say that several of the FF books are not real Oz history. Chris D. is quite willing to do this, and that's his privilege, but I prefer to accept all the FF as containing only minor errors, not flat-out fiction. That is, I have no problem saying that the Royal Historians had a tendency to mix up east and west - they were probably just directionally impaired, like my wife - but, for one classic example, Dorothy drifts from somewhere between America and Australia to Ev in less than 24 hours in OZMA, but Peter swims to an island a couple of days' sail from Ev when he's washed overboard off Cape Hatteras in PIRATES. If Oz and its continent are on our planet and in our dimension, one of those stories doesn't contain a simple error; one of its major plot elements simply can't be true. I could multiply examples almost indefinitely. Tyler: If we postulate that aging in the countries around Oz was slowed down by a factor of 10 or so compared to our aging rate it might solve the problem some of us had with Zixi a while back. She was 683 years old; if this really just meant she was physically about what a 68-something woman would be like in America, then her various deeds don't seem so far-fetched. On the other hand, Baum says that graybeards around her table had heard their grandfathers say that she had appeared the same when they were children - which would seem to imply that in Ix, at least, it _isn't_ normal to live 600-odd years, so if there's a slowing factor it's clearly not as much as 10. Polychrome is only yours because I'm already happily married! :-) Douglas again: The Woozy has a smallish but significant role in LOST PRINCESS. He's mentioned in a few of the other books (SCARECROW, OJO, WISHING HORSE, MAGICAL MIMICS, SHAGGY MAN), but doesn't do anything of any consequence that I recall. Speaking of the Woozy, though, reminds me that I've been wondering whatever happened to Aaron Adelman? I don't recall a post from him in months. He didn't unsubscribe, did he? Earl: Based on what I've been reading, if libraries' carrying Oz books is the criterion of civilization, the '50s were less civilized than the '90s most places, with Longmeadow, MA, being one of the exceptions. Steve: I didn't really _think_ the Wichita Public Library would let a 1st-1st WOO circulate, even to adults; that's why I phrased it, "I'm surprised if a library would let such a copy circulate at all." If I'd thought you meant they let it circulate I'd have said "I'm surprised that..." Hope you don't have too much trouble keeping in touch. Dave: I think it's OK to discuss our books openly now. (Although I can't imagine that the judges didn't recognize yours in any case. Neither Robin nor Steve guessed mine - I hope not because they didn't think I'd have written anything that bad...) Though I'd intended to title my book _Professor Woggle-bug of Oz_, I submitted it under the title _The Magic Carpet of Oz_, and that's probably a better title for it anyhow. The good prof is an important character, but probably not the most important, and the carpet is the source of the main thread of the plot. I look forward to your new Ozzy Digest FAQ; let us know when it's out. (As if you wouldn't! ;-)) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:02:31 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Doug Parker - Really enjoyed your Oz book anecdote. Barbara - Is that the old main branch in Portland? Great news in any event. Gordon >A number of people have commented on the deterioration of quality in the illustrations in later printings. I agree. The detail work is so incredibly fine in these drawings that the printing plates began to wear down almost immediately. I gather the original art is large size and has been reduced to fit the page. Years ago I got a real shock when Dave Graue sent me an original Alley Oop strip. The art really looses when it is reduced. Now strips are approaching postage stamp size and it is even worse. Sigh. Another plus for the good old days. In the 50's I was in Salem, at WU. However, I didn't make it to the public lib. Dave >It was also interesting to discover that there are (male) fans of Oz online who happily stated in their bios to be in love with Ozma and wanted to MARRY her..So at last I have proof that I'm NOT some kind of "sacriligeous" pervert!:) Sorry Dave. I certainly don't consider you a "sacriligeous pervert" but your anecdotal evidence proves nothing. You can probably find some one who is in love with Tik Tok. I'll just continue to think of you as badly misguided as to Ozma's interest in any mere mortal as a mate. :) Tyler - Back there in the "dark ages," 1953-6 I made $2.12 an hour loading freight trucks. So I had to work 23.5 hours each month to pay the union for letting me work. Lets see, 23.5/173 = 13.6%. They took 13.6% of my gross pay and then there were taxes! Growl. Do we have any current union members who can give us a current number? Arghhhhhh. Dave, it was bad enough you fooling around with Ozma's love life but Glinda, that is too much. En gard you scurvy rogue. You are toying with the reputation of the woman I love. :) Bellicosely, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:11:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John K: Our responses were almost identical in nature regarding the problem of the Scarecrow being the Treasurer of the Winkies. :-) Melody: Called it! Yes, you got the one episode where we saw transporter->transporter :-) Baringer: That has got to be the most outrageous way EVER to discover Oz! :-) The comic series was, however, hilarious. You can find a more thorough definition of MOPPeT on Dave's FAQ, but it is a term coined by former Digester Eric Gjovaag and it stands for My Own Personal Pet Theory. Essentially, any idea about Oz itself can be considered a MOPPeT. Doug: I can't remember any major Woozy stories offhand, but if you're patient, Aaron Adleman's stories will be published someday, one of which called _The Woozy of Oz_ and has wuite a lot about him. Aaron: Speaking of this, any update on your stories getting published? I'm anxious to see the Asmard of Ix do battle with the Magic Machine! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:46:48, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 I have been receiving the "Ozzy Digest" for about two weeks now, but this is by first reply. Since I am new to the digest, I will begin with the survey. Name: Bob Collinge Date of Birth: 12/10/61 Residence: Newfields, New Hampshire Profession: Pastor Level of Education: I am going to Theological school. Age of Discovery: Child (Movie on TV.) 28 (books) How discovered: TV, IWOC Ozzy Digest: Jim's WOO web page Oz clubs I belong to: IWOC, Royal Club of Oz Primary Oz Interests: Anything Ozzy How many FF books read: Only 14 Baum books, no others. (Have never seen them!) Non FF Oz Books: Wicked Witch of Oz, Glass Cat of OZ, Non-Oz Baum books: 0 Non-Oz Thompson: 0 Current Oz Projects: writing book about Polychrome Main Ozzy area of concentration: Magic and rulers MOPPeTS: ??? More on "Road" later, Bob ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:18:03 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-31-97 Herm and Steve T: We'll miss you guys at the Munchkin Con, and, Steve, I'll be glad to sub for you in taking Earl up on his kind offer. :-) Dick (Off to see the Munchkins) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.171] >NAME Ted Nesi >DATE OF BIRTH 5/31/84 >HOME Massachusetts >PROFESSION Student >LEVEL OF EDUCATION 6th Grade (I'm going into 7th) >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ 9 or 10 >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Read a copy of "Wizard" and found the other titles on the back...so I checked them all out of my local library. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ Dave's web site. >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO None. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Tie. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? 14 >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? 0 >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 3 >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) A web site. >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? The books. >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Oz is somewhere on the face of the Earth. People aged in Oz for a long time, then aging was stopped and people were left at the same age. (Most people, see Moppet #3) Children in Oz must grow to a certain age, around 9-13, before they stop aging. --------------- I want to thank everyone who made such prompt replies to my Royal Treasurer question! Today I have a few more. What are people's views on "Rinkitink in Oz"? It seemed to me that the ending and title were simply latched on to make sure it would sell. I found it only mildly entertaining, but I'd blaim this more on the fact that I was expecting an Oz book, rather than an outside-of-Oz-until-the-very-end book. Does anyone know of a place to buy Thompson books? I've read the first 14, but I've ALWAYS wanted to read the Thompson series! And third, does anyone think Oz would make an interesting television show? What I think they could do is this: each book would be serialized into half-hour segments. Say, each book makes up 14 segments (purely a number picked out of think air). If they went through the entire book, paid attention to detail, and stayed faithful to Baum/Thompson/Neill/etc. they could have a really interesting show! I think it could go on The Disney Channel or Nickelodeon. It would make a nice companion piece to the latter's "Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss." Sorry for rambling, I'm not sure if that is outlawed on this list yet. :) Ted *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:19:05 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Hi there (and a hearty welcome to all the new conferees) > Oh sadness! > > In response to questions about Munchkin attendance, I regret to inform that I > have to go to Switzerland on Saturday and so will miss the Munchkins gala. You know, Herm, If your trip is for pleasure I'm having a hard time working up any sympathy. If it is not, bite my tongue. > David - Sorry, I'm tired. I'll let someone else take a turn at defending > Capitalism. Dick? Earl? Tyler? Back to Oz. Me too. I'm tired. I'll quote Molly Ivens: > When political disagreements are made into a moralistic crusade -- complete > with smug self-righteousness and the stink of sanctimony -- our ability to > resolve them vanishes, our divisions deepen and somewhere ahead lies something > that looks like Bosnia. > Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest I was fortunate in that I grew up in a community which seemed to have no ingrained hostility towards the Oz books during the '50s. The local library (Brugemeier Memorial in thr city of Monterey Park) had all but a handful of the famous 39 during the '50s and quickly aquired Merry-Go-Round when it was published. The Main branch library of Alhambra (the neighboring city to the north) which i was able to get to after I was in High School, had a less extensive, but still fairly respectable collection. Alhambra had, I think it was 2, which Montery Park was missing. I theink Tim Woodman was one of them, but am no longer certain. Neither of these had Emerald City, which I did not read until I was into my '20s. Nor did either of them have Tik-Tok, so I was stuck with the coverless copy which had survived Ma and her siblings, sans the last two pages (very irritating). I believe that one of the Thompsons was also MIA, but I cannot remember which one. Since Ma refused to purchase any books for me other than the Little Golden variety, this was just as well. David; Yes there is a comment at the end of John Dough which states that Chick grew up and remained exceedingly popular with the people of Hiland and Loland. But that, strangely enough, none of the records mention whether the Grand Booleywag was a man or a woman. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:21:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Bear: It was not Cleveland's fathering a child ot of wedlock that was part of America's survival as a nation, it was the fact that this fact did not prevent him from being elected president, that he was not condemned to obscurity by an outraged populace that enabled "Grover the Good" as he was called to serve his country in its highest office. Sometimes morally upright persons make bad leaders, sometimes they make good leaders. My point is that the personal morality of an individual is not an accurate barometer of his/her effectiveness as a leader. Adolf Hitler was personally a very moral person. Tyler: The color work on the Rand McNally Junior ROAD TO OZ was not attributed to Neill, but then he rarely (except for EMERALD CITY and possibly DOTWIZ did the color work on the regular Oz books. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest files Dear Dave, Have you changed anything recently re. transmission of Ozzy Digest files? Starting about last week, whenever the Digest comes into my e-mail showing that there is a file attached, I can't seem to open the file (using procedures which worked previously. In fact, the file doesn't even appear in my Download Manager. Either its not being downloaded by AOL, or its being stored in some dark recess of my hard disk. But my "Find" utility doesn't show it anywhere! Has anyone else complained? It may just be some corruption in my AOL software. Best, Herm ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 16:48:44 -0400 From: Barry Adelman Subject: Recipes of Oz (actually Mo) For all those who are interested, here is the recipe for pickled peaches. When it was referred to in _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, I thought it was a joke Baum made up, but when looking through a cookbook today it turned out it was not. If anyone makes this, let me know how it comes out. PICKLED PEACHES 1/2 peck peaches 3 cups cider vinegar whole cloves 1 ounce stick cinnamon 1 1/2 pounds light brown sugar Scald peaches. Dip in cold water for 1 minute. Peel. Place 4 or more whole cloves in each piece of fruit. Prepare syrup of sugar, vinegar, and cinnamon. Add peaches and cook gently until tender. Pack in hot, sterilized jars. Cover with syrup. Seal at once. Pickled pears or apples: Substitute pears or apples for peaches. (London, Anne, and Bishov, Bertha Kahn, eds.(1952). _The Complete American-Jewish Cookbook_. Cleveland: The World Publishing Company, pg. 526.) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 97 14:19:54 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE AOL TROUBLE???: Herm Bieber wrote: >Dear Dave, >Have you changed anything recently re. transmission of Ozzy Digest files? >Starting about last week, whenever the Digest comes into my e-mail showing >that there is a file attached, I can't seem to open the file (using >procedures which worked previously. Has anyone else had this problem? I am doing everything as always... MOPPETS and MUPPETS: Robert Schroeder, Jr wrote: >MOPPeTs Miss Piggy, Kermit, Elmo, ... This isn't Ozzy, but can you tell me who Elmo is? I know from kids' (and some grownups') teeshirts that he's a red monster, but that's all I know...Cookie Monster eats cookies, Telly Monster is a worry-wart and Grover is just "Your ol' pal, cute, furry, lovable Grover", but what is Elmo's claim to fame? (Excuse my ignorance, but I stopped watching Sesame Street around the time they took on a disco beat.) IT IS BETTER TO HAVE LOVED AND LOST THAN TO...HMMM...I FORGET NOW...: :) Bear wrote: >You can probably find some one who is in love with Tik Tok. Actaully, my Sinclair ZX-11 has been smitten for years... FAQ'S THAT I NOW MUST ASK: :) I'm almost done with the new FAQ, but I need some info. that I hope someone here can give me: -- Citations for _The Munchkins of Oz_ (the new book about the Munchkins in the MGM film), and that 50th anniversary book on the movie whose name I can't remember... -- Any info. anyone has about the Shirley Temple TV version of _Land of Oz_ and also the new "Oz Kids" TV show/video -- The exact titles of various _Wizard of Oz_ soundtrack albums that are available (also where the sheet music can be found). -- The true story of "Over the Rainbow"'s narrow escape from meeting "The Jitterbug"'s fate on the cutting room floor. Thanks ahead! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:22:29 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - I guess we should never assume we know what a person means even though we read what they say. :) I understood you to say that it was all right for Shaggy to put Toto in his pocket because he was just doing it so he could pick up a few apples. It also seems you are reading his mind by assuming he is going to release Toto later. I will go on record that his behavior is not all right with me. If you walk into a jewelry store and put a diamond ring in your pocket I don't think the management would be too receptive if you told them it was just so you could pick up (steal) a few inexpensive pieces of costume jewelry and you were going to put the diamond back. I may be confused as to your position but this seems as indefensible as Shaggies behavior. I am guessing that this is really two antithetical views of private property colliding. Nes pas? And yes, I understand the difference between larceny and pilfering. Toto was the former and the apples were the latter. Scott O. >So I suppose the moral here is just don't lose sight of the fact that Ozma is a fictional character. You can't be serious! Next you will tell us there is no Santa Claus. Bob Spark - Aren't you too young to be tired? And to be quoting old Molly? Stephen >My point is that the personal morality of an individual is not an accurate barometer of his/her effectiveness as a leader. I just want to get this clear. Is a corollary for you that personal morality should not be a consideration in the selection of leaders? >Adolf Hitler was personally a very moral person. Surely you jest. I hope! I have seen indefensible statements but this is a classic. Herm - Did you ever get my retransmission? It sounds like the same problem you had with me on compuserve. No other aol friends have had a problem. Tyler - Would you please handle any political/economic/philosophical questions addressed to me for a few weeks. I am tired and would like a vacation. Tiredly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 18:56:06 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff Ruth, Tyler and David: Have each of you read Aaron Adelman's WOOZY OF OZ? Thanks for the information about the role of the Woozy in other books. Tyler: You say that Aaron Adelman's books will be published someday. Do you how and where a copy of THE WOOZY OF OZ can be found nowadays?? :-) David: Remember, I'm only on Book 11 now! :-) The aspect of death and "destruction" is very confusing in Baum's books. Didn't the bees get "killed" in WIZARD along with other beasts that attacked our heroes? Later, it is said that no one ever dies, they are just "destroyed." My MOPPet was that death in Oz was not like death as we know it (or don't know it :-) ), but something else. For example, something like being sent into limbo without being actually dead, etc. Regarding Oz being on Earth- Well so far I haven't read anything (up to book 11) that prevents it being on Earth. However, I will defer to you since you have read all of the FF. Do some of the later FF books explain Oz to be somewhere other than Earth? Well Oz being on Earth was a NEWBIE MOPPet of mine as of book 11. Again, I shall defer to you that Oz is not on the Earth. Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 19:00:32 -0700 From: mbert@swbell.net Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest 08/01/97 Scott Olsen: About signing on to AOL with an 'Ozzy Screen Name'. I had two accounts with AOL, both with OZ in the screen name. One was "LostnOZ" and the other was "HellofrmOZ". I am currently using OZinTX on IRC, but for some reason, folks seen to think I'm a transplant from 'Down Under.' It is possible, just be creative and be prepared to explain, "No, I'm not from Sydney....I'm just a fan of the Wizard of OZ and I thought that 'Dorothy' would be a strange screen name for me." Bob Collinge: So glad to see a pastor among us. As you might have noticed, I am really into the 'spiritual' aspect of OZ, but have yet to develop a good theory. How about you? Just feel free to E-mail me! Dave: Who is Elmo? Geez, after this last Christmas season, I thought everyone knew who Elmo was. Well, he is a first grader (just 6 yrs old!), ticklish and appears on the 'Rosie O'Donnell Show', but alas, his claim to capitalist fame may be short lived, with the introduction of 'Go To Bed Fred' this upcoming holiday season. BTW...The Muppets are very OZ..Frank OZ designed most of the characters used in the 1985 'Return to OZ', along with Disney. Ok, the film was not a great success, but perhaps that is because it stayed close to the plot of the book. FAQ's Shirley Temple TV version: According to the book "The World of OZ" by Allen Eyles, (1985, HPBooks,Inc., Tucson AZ.) this TV version was directed by Victor Fleming, with Frank Gabrielson writer. It starred Shirley as Tip/Ozma, Jonathan Winters (Nikidik) Ben Blue (Scarecrow) Sterling Holloway (Jack Pumpkinhead) Gil Lamb (Tin Woodman) Agnes Moorehead (Mombi) Frances Bergen (Glinda) Arthur Treacher (Nikidik's brother) and Mel Blanc, Charles Boaz and William Keene. I suppose this TV special was Shirley's studio's way of saying "We're sorry we wouldn't lend you to MGM for that little film, but don't worry, years from now nobody will remember it." BTW, according to this book, this special really was bad...except for Agnes Moorehead's performance as Mombi and apparently, this role helped her to land the role of Endora in 'Bewitched.' Speaking of TV specials, apparently Disney has done several "OZ" type numbers or shows, after losing the rights for "Wizard of OZ", (Disney had planned on making this as an animated feature, which would have followed Snow White). Disney bought the rights to future WOZ productions in the 1950's with plans to make a two-part special drawn largely on "Patchwork Girl of OZ", which proved to be too expensive, then the studio had planned a Feature film called "The Rainbow Road to OZ" in 1957 with Annette Funicello and Darlen Gillespie starring, but alas, this too was abandoned. The Mouseketeers did do a musical number based on the planned film, all under the watchful eye of Walt himself. Disney, of course, did nothing with the rights to OZ until 1985 when 'Return' was filmed. I believe that Jim Henson Productions (the Muppet People) now have the rights to OZ. As to why "Over the Rainbow" was almost cut, I believe it was because the powers that be thought that the song produced a drag on the film overall. Perhaps, this is why the last verse was cut from the film...that verse went as follows "Someday I'll wake and rub my eyes, and in that land beyond the sky you'll find me. I'll be a laughing daffodil and leave the silly cares that fill my mind behind me." As for the "Jitterbug" as well as a large portion of the Scarecrow's dance, and a sequenence called 'Renovation' where Dorothy returns to the Emerald City with the Witch's broomstick, alas, they all fell victim to the attempts to make the movie as smooth as possible. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:42:18 -0500 From: Suzanne Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Hello all! I just thought I'd finally introduce myself. I just discovered the digest earlier this week and I'm so glad. So by way of introduction, I'll fill out the questionaire. >Questionaire (Jan. 1997 Oz Digest Members Poll) >NAME: Suzanne Scherrer >DATE OF BIRTH: September 7, 1965 >HOME: St. Louis, MO >PROFESSION: Casino Dealer >LEVEL OF EDUCATION: Lots of college >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ: >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ: I was 5 when I first remember seeing the 1939 movie and I was 8 when I began reading the books. My third grade teacher, Miss Debra Campos, had a set of the books; older copies with the covers with the pictorial label and color plates. She allowed the more advanced readers to borrow these books from her personal collection. When I was 13? I found a copy of "The Oz Scrapbook" which led me to the IWOC. I was a member for quite a few years until I went wild in college. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_: I was surfing the web Monday and decided to check up on some of the Oz websites. >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO: None currently, but I plan to remedy that soon. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS): I love both equally. I owe a great debt to the movie as it introduced me to the world of Oz and to the world of film. (I have been a film history major in college for 13 years.) But I love the imagery and fantasy that Baum and his successors gave us. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? BAUM? all >THOMPSON? the first three or four >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW?: none unfortunately >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?: "The Oz Scrapbook", "The Making Of The Wizard Of Oz" and assorted others whose titles I cannot recall. >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? :all >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? none >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?): none at the moment >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION?: I'd like to persue research into Baum's silent film projects. >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ?: I haven't any at this time, but I will keep everyone posted. I hope that covers everything. I don't have computer access from home so some of my answers are a bit sketchy. As time goes on and I get reaquainted with what is new in the world of Oz, I hope that I'll have more to contribute to the goings on here. Suzanne curiouser@rdr.net ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 02:02:04 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest: Sarah, On Oz book prices, if you are talking of very good + copies of first editions, the rarity is pretty well proportional top the price. The Hill edition of the Wonderful Wizard of Oz is the scarcest, with prices in the thousands. I would say Marvelous Land is the second hardest to find (in the first state), and Emerald City in third place. As to your specific query, I would say that a fine first of Tin Woodman (no jacket) and a mint first of Silver Princess (in jacket) would both be worth about $300 (each). Of course condition is quite subjective, and I would need to see examples of what you call fine or mint. The price of children's books, because they usually are so "loved" goes up exponentially as the condition approaches what the professional booksellers call, "as new." Bob Spark, Switzerland IS a business trip, but I work mornings and evenings with the afternoons off for hiking or whatever. I even find European Oz editions in my free time. There is a handsome new German edition of Wizard with very creative modern illustrations. But as a long-time Munchkin attendee, I AM distressed at having to miss it. And, IMHO, the Munchkins always have the best decorations of the three major conventions. On AOL problems. After several days of "lost or unreadable files, today's Ozzy Digest file appeared in my Download Manager and I was able to read it as usual. You figure! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 My survey responses (as I don't talk on the Digest much, and people may wonder who I am and why I'm there) >NAME Sarah G. Hadley (well, that's my pseudonym, but...) >DATE OF BIRTH June 30th >HOME USA >PROFESSION Student >LEVEL OF EDUCATION 9th Grade >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ 4 or 5 >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Read the first book, saw the MGM film, and proceeded to find a good 30 - 35 of the other 39 books at a local library. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ I honestly can't remember...on the Net somewhere.... >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO None at the time, but I'm going to rejoin the IWOC after an absence of a few years. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Books all the way, but I enjoy finding out info on the various plays and films as well. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? After reading _Handy Mandy_ and _Silver Princess_ for the first times three weeks ago, I can say (hurrah!) that I have read every single book in the Famous Forty. >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? All of Shanower's graphic novels, _Little Wizard Stories_, _The Cheerful Citizens of Oz_, _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, _The Visitors from Oz_, _The Wicked Witch of Oz_, _The Dinamonster of Oz_, _The Magic Dishpan of Oz_, _Invisible Inzi of Oz_, _The Giant Garden of Oz_, _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_ (does it count?), and the first two _Tales of Magic Land_ books (is the third out now?). >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? Several, lemme see here.... _Queen Zixi of Ix_, _Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, _American Fairy Tales_, _Animal Fairy Tales_, _The Wogglebug Book_, >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING >NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) Trying to write a book and make a website, as well as collecting information for informative booklets on each of the Baum books. >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? The stories themselves, although I am very interested in A) gathering reference information for all things Ozzy and B) collecting the FF and non-Oz Baum fantasies in first editions, first state (I have 10! I'm getting there!). >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Well, I'm a strong believer that the bit about the Scarecrow being the reincarnated Emperor of the Silver Islands is so much twaddle.... Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 10:55:55 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 Ruth: Queen Dolly is also mentioned, though not by name, in MAGIC. (In WISHING HORSE Merryland is mentioned, but Thompson refers to its "king". Had there been a usurpation?) Most likely all the non-Oz characters who appear on the ROAD endpapers are from JOHN DOUGH because that was the only non-Oz book (up to that time) that Neill had illustrated for Baum. Robert: Welcome to the Digest! We probably seem more book-centered than movie-centered here, but that's mostly because there are so many books and only one movie. I hope that when you have a chance to read some of the books that you appreciate them as well. Scott O.: There's certainly a group that's trying to make a controversy of the Aberdeen Baum festival because of his anti-Indian editorials when he was editor of the Aberdeen paper. Whether it's actually a "huge" controversy is harder to determine from this distance; it doesn't seem to have made the Chicago newspapers, for instance. (In fact, the festival itself hasn't made the Chicago newspapers.) It's produced some serious flaming on the Internet, to be sure, but then a lot of pretty trivial things can do that. I was once seriously flamed for saying I thought Bush was toast in September of 1992. Interesting that there are so many Ozzy screen names on AOL - and from the books at that! Might be interesting to try a mass E-mail to all the names in _Who's Who in Oz_ , inviting them to try the Digest...but it would probably be rejected as "spam". Bear: Speaking as one who also spent summers working in the 1953-56 period, I'd say that if you got $2.12 an hour for what amounted to unskilled labor, you probably benefited more from the Teamsters than it cost you. I know I made 75 cents an hour, which was the minimum wage at the time. (It went up to $1 an hour in '55 or '56, I forget which.) If it hadn't been for the Teamsters, do you really think they'd have paid more than minimum wage for loading freight trucks? Not unless you were in an area with a serious labor shortage. And this is even though the Teamsters weren't so much a union as an extension of organized crime. (And, as Scott O. pointed out, they're the only union that consistently supported the Republican party through the '70s and '80s - though I don't say that the two facts about them are related... :-)) Bob C.: Welcome to the Digest! (And you've read _Glass Cat_! *Good* man! :-) I hope you enjoyed it.) You can get most of the Thompson and all the later books of the Famous Forty either through the IWOC or Books of Wonder, and if you're a member of the IWOC and Royal Club you should know how to order them. The only ones you can't get that way are Thompson's _Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_. Ted: _Rinkitink_ is one of my favorite Oz books, though admittedly it has little to do with Oz. It was originally written as a non-Oz book titled _King Rinkitink_, probably before _Emerald City_ - one other anomaly you can notice about it is that the Nome King's personality is that of Roquat from _Ozma_, not Kaliko or even Roquat from EC. The Oz ending was definitely tacked on to increase sales (and because Baum had a contract and it was easier to convert an existing MS than to write a whole new one). Still, I think it's one of Baum's best books; if he hadn't tacked on the Oz ending, but had let Inga free his parents by himself, it might well rival _Sky Island_ as being the one I think best of all. As I said to Bob C. above, the IWOC has all the Thompsons through _Jack Pumpkinhead_ for sale in PB, and either the IWOC or Books of Wonder (or sometimes both) have the ones from _Speedy_ on, as well as all the post-Thompson books. BoW also has _Royal Book_ out in a very nice facsimile edition, and should do the same with _Kabumpo_ when it enters PD next year, assuming RB sells well enough to justify it. Oz could make a very interesting TV series, but I'm afraid that it would be too expensive for any of the studios to be very interested. Hyperion has done a series of animated Oz tales, many of them based on one or another of the original series (or connected stories like _The Sea Fairies_), though with different characters; those are supposed to be showing on TV sometime - maybe they already have, though if so I haven't heard of it. If they draw good audiences there may be more interest in doing versions that are more faithful to the originals. If rambling were outlawed on the Digest I'd have been kicked off long ago. Not to worry. Steve: The talk about Cleveland reminds me of one of my favorite political quotes (not exact, but in essence), from some eminent person regarding the 1884 election between Cleveland and Blaine: "It would appear that Mr. Blaine leads an exemplary private life, but that his actions in the public sphere are questionable. Mr. Cleveland, on the other hand, has behaved in an exemplary manner in his public life, but his activities in the private sphere are questionable. It therefore appears most reasonable to maintain Mr. Cleveland in public life, where he excels, and retire Mr. Blain to private life, where _he_ excels." Barry: You thought pickled peaches were a joke? They're a very tasty dessert, or sweetish side dish, and one I've eaten all my life - though now that you mention it, not in quite a few years. I'll have to remedy that... (I think you can even buy them at grocery stores, though homemade are much better.) Dave: Sorry, can't help you with your FAQ questions. If they were about the books, now... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:04:29 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: >-- The true story of "Over the Rainbow"'s narrow escape from meeting > "The Jitterbug"'s fate on the cutting room floor. According to Aljean Harmetz in _The Making of the Wizard of Oz_, the song was in trouble from the beginning. When Harburg first heard Arlen play the principal theme (minus the bridge) he thought the melody was too symphonic, too operatic for a little girl to sing--even though he knew it was certainly within Judy Garland's range. The two called in Ira Gershwin to help them arbitrate; Arlen played the song with less symphonic flourish; Harburg revised his opinion and wrote lyrics that helped place the song within a child's perspective. The second major hurdle was the reaction of MGM producers at a sneak preview in San Bernadino; the producers, who had reasons of their own to discredit LeRoy, complained to L. B. Mayer that a major ballad should *not* be sung in a barnyard. Either LeRoy or Arthur Freed (the accounts differ) finally convinced Mayer to keep the song in the movie. Robert Schroeder: Harmetz doesn't say anything about why the last verse of the song was cut from the movie. There may be some information on this on the recent Turner/Rhino CD that has most of the outtakes. Welcome to the Digest, incidentally! And you shouldn't hang your head in shame at not having yet read any of the Oz books. Most of us are incredibly envious that you are reading these for the first time. A couple of months ago we had a discussion going about recurrent dreams, and one dream that many people had was the delirious experience of stumbling on an unread FF Oz book in a used book store. Kieran: In your bio you exuberantly claim to have read ALL! of the non-Oz Baum books. Can this really be? All the Aunt Jane's Nieces books, and Twinkle & Cubbins, Master Key, Father Goose, the poultry book, etc. etc.?! I wonder if anyone on the Digest has in fact read the entire Baum opus, aside from Peter Hanff, Patrick Maund, and Ruth Berman. Here's another question: how many of you can name, in precise order of publication, all of the FF? Dave again: Like Herm, I haven't received any attachments with the Digest. If I'm not mistaken, the attachments were in messages that you received, and your e-mail program may not automatically forward attachments. Bear: The Salem Public Library with all those Oz books was right across the street from Willamette U.! :) --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:03:09 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Hi, Does anybody know where I can get a set of all 14 Baum Oz Books by one publisher (Hardcover of Paperback, preferably with the original illustration and covers)? Thanks NAME - David Levitan DATE OF BIRTH - 4/20/84 HOME - New City, NY PROFESSION - Student LEVEL OF EDUCATION - Completed 7th Grade AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ - Don't know HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ - Got interested by an Oz poster in my school library and then was able to get all of Baum's books plus a few of Thompson's books. HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ - Dave Hardenbrook's home page OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO - none PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) - books HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? Baum: 14, Thompson: 3 (going to read 4 more very, very soon) Neill: 3, Snow: going to read 2 very, very soon, Cosgrove-Pays: 0, McGraw: 1 WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? A few stories that were posted on web sites HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 6 HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) web site MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? books WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? none as of now -- David Levitan ben.levitan@mne.net ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 97 13:01:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks for the info. for the FAQ, everyone! OZZY AOL SCREEN NAMES: I guess another possibility is to use a lesser-known character from a non-Canonical book, like Jeremy did with Kiex. (Is there a Zim@aol.com?) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 3 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 17:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Herm: What do I mean by fine and mint? Let me see here: TIN WOODMAN First edition. Fine, unfaded cover (cloth and label). A few pieces of something stuck to the label (this is not the label itself, torn. I surmise that these bits are part of a no-longer-existant jacket that was once glued to it). Great quality book, but some browning and a few fingerprints on pages. A bit of water damage at the bottom of all 12 plates. Two signatures in front...one from original owner, one from 1980s. SILVER PRINCESS First edition w/jacket. Fantastic book, looks good as new. No-one has touched this thing, except for a signature in the 'This Book Belongs To'. Some of the jacket (now protected by a plastic covering) has been worn away at the top and bottom edges. Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Today is Saturday, August 2. Six months ago I thought I would be in Wilmington, Delaware at the Munchkin Convention. Instead I'm at home. What have I done today -- chopped wood, worked on refinishing the hardwood floor in Baby Noble's (due September 4) bedroom, shopped for groceries, and (fortunately) browsed at a couple of bookstores (even bought some cheap books, though none were Oz). Needless to say, I'd rather be at MunchCon. Herm: To hike in Switzerland... that sounds like a better alternative to MunchCon than what I'm experiencing. Are you going to the Alps? I seem to remember that you enjoy birding (maybe from your AOL profile?) In that respect, I think we are also kindred spirits. I am a novice at birding (though I'm learning), but I have been a longtime outdoor recreationist and avid reader of natural history. Most recently, I finally realized my dream of changing careers and working for a non-profit environmental organization. (I used to be a journalist.) Gordon: I, too, wondered about the one or two people who say they've read *all* the non-Oz Baum books. Considering the number and scarcity of some of them, I find that astonishing. I suspect that some people (I was in this category myself not too long ago) have no idea just how prolific Baum was. I believe he wrote at least 65 books. Even if you don't count the psuedonymous ones, I think he wrote at least 40. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 15:23:14 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Bear, > Bob Spark - Aren't you too young to be tired? And to be quoting old Molly? > I suspect that our respective ages are not that dissimilar. I was born in 1940. I keep waiting for that old saw that says if you are not a liberal as a youth you have no soul and if you have not become conservative as you age you have no brain. As it happens, my political philosophy hasn't changed that much with the years (my folks were Franklin Roosevelt democrats). No brain, I guess. Molly Ivins approaches sainthood in my book. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:45:41 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Douglas: Lots of animals were killed in WIZARD, and although no humans but the two Wicked Witches (assuming they were actually human) died during the course of the book, there are references that make it clear that there was natural death in Oz not long before the events of that book. On the other hand, Nick Chopper's surviving being cut up requires some explanation. I have one for it, but it wasn't generally accepted when I presented it on the Digest six months ago or so. Up through book 11 - or through all of Baum, for that matter - there isn't anything that would absolutely rule out Oz being on Earth, although you have to draw on some pretty powerful magic to believe that someone could make a ladder long enough to reach from the Earth to the Moon and climb it without its being noticed by anyone in the rest of the world. Mr. Tinker's doing a fast climb if he's going to climb 250,000 miles in the few hours that a ladder could connect a given point on the surface of the Earth to a point on the Moon. And there's some powerful magic working with the tube through the center of the Earth in TIK-TOK, too, because those who fall through it would normally not come out on the other side because of friction (of which there's clearly some, from the story), and for other reasons as well. And of course, if you want to call on magic powerful enough then you could say that when Peter falls overboard off North Carolina in PIRATES he's magically wafted into the mid-Pacific. But there doesn't seem to really be any point in placing Oz on our Earth if there's such powerful magic working that (a) it can't be found on satellite photographs; (b) you can get to it from anywhere on Earth in a few hours; and (c) natural laws that apply on Earth don't apply there. This appears to me to be a distinction without a difference; if that's not the equivalent of another dimension, it has all the characteristics of one. Suzanne: Welcome to the Digest! Your profession sounds like an interesting one. Sarah: You've been around a while, so I won't welcome you, but thanks for putting in your answers to the poll. Gordon: I suspect when people refer to having read all of Baum's non-Oz books, they mean his major fantasy books - MO, DOT AND TOT, YEW, ZIXI, JOHN DOUGH, SEA FAIRIES, SKY ISLAND, and maybe MASTER KEY. Reading all the other books he wrote would be very difficult except for a true completist who's been at it for quite a long time - as you say, Peter, Patrick, and Ruth may be the only ones on the Digest, though I wouldn't be too surprised if Robin or Steve or Herm had as well. Or someone who's lurking. I can name all the FF in order of publication. I suspect that there are at least a dozen more among those who post regularly, and maybe more among the lurkers. If you're on AOL and the length of the Digest runs more than something like 10K, all but the first 2K gets converted into an attachment when it arrives, and you have to download it and read it with a word processor rather than being able to read it like normal E-mail. Just one of a number of drawbacks to AOL. David L.: You can get all 14 Baum books in a uniform mass PB edition from Del Rey, in the SF section of any good-sized bookstore. The art has been pretty badly reduced, though. I think that's the only uniform edition of all 14 that's currently in print; Books of Wonder has all them in hardcover through SCARECROW in very nice editions with color plates (or whatever color the original had), and Dover has quality PB editions of about the same books. By the year 2000 BoW will have all 14 Baums in print in facsimile hardcover editions. And welcome to the Digest! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi people. I still have that early edition of Dot and Tot, in near mint condition. I have ZERO fortune finding Oz books in Louisiana. Believe me! And since my collection was stolen, I have NONE save this. I would truly appreciate it if someone would trade me some Thompson books for it. I don't care about condition or edition. The only thing I care about is hardback. I'm looking to get copies of Ojo, Silver Princess, Handy Mandy, and Captain Salt. Anyone willing to trade? If not those, I'll gladly take ANY Oz books in trade. Just let me know. I appreciate your time. Thanks! Kieran Miller ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 12:06:52 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Oz Web Ring Status "jengibbs@on-ramp.ior.com" , Ted Nesi , Jim Whitcomb Hi, The Oz Web Ring is currenlty running smoothly and hopefully, there will be no more outages. We now have 6 sites currently in the ring, and a 7th site has been sent the HTML, so hopefully we will have 7 sites in a few days. We are now listed in RingWorld, the directory of web rings on http://www.webring.org. I am currently looking for volunteers to help manage the web ring when I am away from my home computer. These periods would only be a few weeks at most and happen only a few times a year. If anybody would like to help me out, please reply to this message. Thanks. -- David Levitan ben.levitan@mne.net ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:00:59, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Happy Sunday! About the Shaggy man stealing apples: I do not believe anyone would say anything to him for "shagging" them off the ground. Dog-knapping is another story. I suppose I am in competition for Polychrome? She has always been my favorite. Being a Pastor, I have always used Oz as spiritual analogy's. I guess it is in my blood. Dave Hulan: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed "Glass Cat". I have enjoyed all of the Oz books I have read, but I wish "Rinkitink" had more to do with Oz. I hope soon to have all of the remaining Oz books that I can get, just for reading purposes. Gordon Birrell: I doubt I could name Baum's 14 books in order! Ozzy is as Ozzy does, Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 David: You probably would not like my entry. The problem is a poor one, essentially thought of the top of the main character's head, and it doesn't work out very well. Deeper, more subtle, and more important unstated problems are solved, to an extent, however. You really think that later Baum/Thompson/Snow/Payes works should be considered apocryphal? In my work I even hinted at elements of Oziana stories... Gordon: I've always wondered (and presumed convention of the time) about such usages, and "to-morrow," "Hallowe'en," etc. That no one really uses anymore. Oz people seem to use the latter a lot though, presumably because Baum and Thompson did. Dave: Religious people who think that witches worship satan are ignorant. I have spoken with witches on the internet, and they worship nature: they're pagan, not satanist, and who is to say Baum's witches are of the wiccan religion? It is a pretty generic term. David: At both the Borders in Indianapolis (about 2-3 miles apart from one another, at most) they put the Del Rey Oz books in "Young Adult" and the BoW in "children's classics" under Baum. It would be nice id they actually put new ones on the new release shelf, and brought attention to the fact that they are by different authors. They're all organized by title, as if Baum wrote them all. I tried Seta SNES Wizard of Oz game again last night. I still think it's very poorly designed. Dan and Lynn did not accept my bad review ffor the Bugle when it came out. It's challenging for all the wrong reasons: the character control is so stiff, the characters can only fight from a standimg positon, and not while jumping or ducking. The Tin Woodman can't jump, making him practically useless. 1-ups aren't there very often: in most games they're everywhere, if you can figure out where and how to get them. The guide book is a joke, and it even complains Baum wrote 36 sequels to the Wizard, and that the last of his work was published in the sixties. The latter part may be true, but not what they were thinking of. I know Animal Fairy Tales was published in 1958, and Our Landlady even later. If anyone has managed to finish the game and tape the ending, I'd like to see it. Barb: Music of the Spheres is a phrase I have wondered about, though I know Josef Strauss wrote a waltz by that title, which I have on Erich Kunzel's _Ein Straussfest II_ CD. When I bought that, the cashier was a shaven headed guy with an earring, who actually chuckled when I bought it. Henri Verdoux mentions "music of the spheres in _Monsieur Verdoux_, Charlie Chaplin's black comedy masterpiece. Dave: I only found two references to Oz in _Contact_, did anyone find more. Both were to the movie. I thought I saw a Del Rey paperback on McConahey's shelf, but when I got home, I looked and saw that it wasn't. Has anyone seen _The Flight of Dragons_ (1982). In it (I've mentioned this before), The Green Wizard Carolinus (Harry Morgan) shows Peter Dickinson (the author of the actual book the film was based on, something teachers always said never to do, played here by John Ritter) his "Library of Unwritten Books," which includes Beowulf, Gulliver's Travels, The Tempest, Alice in Wonderland, The Wizard of Oz, and, of course, The Flight of Dragons. Interestingly, all four directors, Arthur Rankin, Jr.; Jules Bass, Fumihiko Takayama, and Katsuhisa Yamada, all have directed Oz-related films before or since! Dave: Unions aren't necessarily men gathering together and cooperating. The union I belonged to just pulled a lot of money out of my paycheck, sent me stupid newsletters, and told me to vote all-Democrat. It was mandatory to join to work at Kroger, so it is still forced, it's just a matter of by whom, which really does not matter much. BTW, how often has Ozma forced someone to do something unless they had warred or done something criminal? I also have yet to find Dover's _John Dough_. I was hoping to read _Sky Island_ this summer, but I still don't think I'll have time. Doug: I think Baum wanted to emphasize that Ojo's quest involved breaking the law, and perhaps the right thing to do would have been to seek the aid of someone licensed to practice magic. Thus, it was important that Ojo's efforts be for nothing. David O.: I haven't been to the one in Indiana, because it's about 99.9% MGM, but many of the surviving Munchkins go, so it would be worth it for that reason. Eric Richard (esrichar@cord.iupui.edu) has been, and he has met John Fricke, Jerry Maren, Margaret Pellegrini, and Karl Slover. Judging from John's video, Eric is right that Karl is a really funny guy. Tyler: Do you really think an IE is an IE if it has strong thematic significance (and they do not always). I always thought, in the Oz as literature sense, it was because of the real-world scenario. Remember thompson describing herself as an actual recipient of the materials. Perhaps she simply "corrected" dialogue she thought was erroneous, because R&L gave her the "corrected" compass rose on Wogglebug's map. In my Oz books, he getsblamed for everything wrong with the map, so as not to blame Baum for inconsistency. Remember, the Tiktok endpapers have a mirrored compass rose, which R&L dutifully corrected, because they didn't have a computer that could reverse the lettering for them What I don't like about communism is that it forces people to give up what they have worked for to those who have done little or nothing. There has to be a happy medium, not an either-or... Eric: I'm a bit surprised, with its Oz references, "Project Ozma" was never mentioned in _Contact_. Has anyone heard any more about the rap-musical of Wizard, directed by Paul Hunter, yet? Ruth: I believe Shaggy's last name is Wiggins. I know in Jesus's time, it was legal to walk into somebody's field and take of the goods, so long as you took what you could eat, not pocketing reserves, which, of course, Shaggy was trying to do. Jane: I'd like to contribute something to the gazette, if you have any ideas. BTW, I have more pictures of you than I remembered taking... Ted: Money was used during the Wizard's time (and before): Children bought lemonade with pennies in _WWoO_, and Piozters were made with Ozma's face before she devalued them. Steve T.: My union was UFCW Local 700. It sucks. Glad I'm no longer a member. (Actually, I think you have to actively withdraw or something, which it's too late for me to do, unfortunately. At least I'm off the mailing list, finally. David: The Indianapolis-Marion County Public Library System doesn't restrict anything from children unless paents get a "jv" punch on their kid's card. But that only works for videos. And that's so excessive that there are G movies that aren't considered j that they can't check out, ang PG and PG-13 films that are, that they can. It's a bit absurd. At least the library doesn't have Madonna's _Sex_ for kids to check out. What makes you think Thompson's Oz is in a Ptolomeic universe. I don't think there is anything conclusive (save Farmer or the Gazette ball) to suggest that Oz is not hidden somewhere on earth... Barb: Love the castle! The questionnaire looks good. I never answered one. Dave: I didn't know there was a band called Ozma! I wonder if they're Oz fans. None of us said there was anyhting wrong with wanting to marry Ozma. It's just that you decided to marry her off... Bill: I have the CD. It's in the soundtracks section. I never saw the show, however, and it has yet to be released to video, or if it has, it's not in Videolog. Dave: I have serious doubts about the big bang theory. It doesn't make any sense to me. The theories I understand, but they don't seem, grounded in the real world. Someone tried to explain expansion and contraction of the universe to me using a phone cord, but could not explain evidence to suggest this was meant anything. Ted: There have been at least two television serials based on the Oz books, and that is not counting _Ozu no Uchu Daiboken_ (Space Adventure of Oz) _Tales of the Wizard of Oz_, or _The Wizard of Oz_ (1990, based on MGM movie). these are _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_ (1973, V. Popov, L. Smironov) and _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ (1987, Gerald Potterton, Tim Redi). The former was a ten-part adaptation of the first three Alesandir Melyentovich Volkov Magic Land books: the first five episodes are based on his version of _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_, though the ending is truncated similarly to the MGM film. The next three are of _Urfin Dzhus and his Wooden Soldiers_ and the last two are of _Seven Underground Kings_, both original tales by Volkov. The first story also has an incident with Ludoyed (man-eater), an Ogre who wants to put Elli through his meat grinder. The more recent one has been issued as four films, running 93, 91, 95, and 94 minutes each, based on Wizard, Land Ozma, and EC. The art is ugly, but the first book is adapted faithfully, and the others far less so. Sony released four episodes to tape last year, but they are already unavailable. Dave: I can snail-mail you the complete credits for the first five Oz Kids videos (which are astoundingly different), though I haven't found the other four. The plate story ought to be mentioned in the FAQ. Also, I have a bigger credits list for the 1960 Land than The World of Oz, which I culled from TV guide. Actually, except fro Who Stole Santa? and Christmas in Oz, which I haven't entered yet, most of this information can be culled from the Internet Movie Database, by looking at the titles. The address is us.imdb.com. Herm: Did you see this? http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Bieber,+Herman You might want to have your birthday listed wiyth the stars, or a mini-bio or something. I'm too young for a bio to be of any interest for mine, but I've got others. You're in the credits for _Oz: The American Fairyland_ but I don't think it has your Santore credit yet. Bear: I think Stephen was referring to how Hitler led his everyday life, as opposed to political operations... The Land of Oz was not directed by Victor Fleming, that was the MGM film. This was directed by William Corrigan, who never made it out of TV. William Asher, producer and director of _Bewitched_, produced this telefilm, so it must have led to Agnes Moorhead's casting as Endora. Most of mberts's info on other Oz films is erroneous. Frank Oz had nothing to do with Return to Oz. The characters in RTO were designed by a vteam headed by Tim Rose, Lyle R. Conway, and Stephen Norrington (director of _Death Machine_, where characters are named after directors like Sam Raimi, Joe Dante, and John Carpenter, the first two are among my favorites, I've only seen one film by the third.) David: The Oz Kids are not airing on TV. Probably this is because just about everything Thomas L. Wilhite has touched has been an artistic success, but a financial failure. Did you know he was the Disney exec who approved of _Return to Oz_. Walter Murch went right to him, and Tom said it was a worthwhile idea. He soon left the company, since films he had worked on, like Tron, The Black Hole, and Something Wicked This Way Comes all failed. I liked Tron, and especially _Something Wicked this Way Comes_, adapted from a Ray Bradbury story. I believe, until _The Halloween Tree_, this was Ray Bradbury's favorite of his works on film. Gordon: That's odd, Mervyn LeRoy, was the producer of _The Wizard of Oz_. Usually it's directors (in this case Victor Fleming) who have trouble. Most directors, and therefore film students like me, hate producers, because they are commercial shackles to the director's art. That's probably why Walter Murch, Jr. got offended when Peter mentioned that he thought his father was the producer of _Return to Oz_. Originally the producer of _RTO_ was Gary Kurtz (of _Star Wars_ fame). Murch and Kurtz worked quite well together, but Disney was switching over to the Eisner-Katzenberg regime, andf wanted other projects swept under the rug, hence the ugly artwork and poorly handled promotion for the film. The bumped Kurtz up to executive producer (giving him less creative control) and put Paul Maslansky (_Police Academy_) in his place, because that film had been successful on a low budget, and Eisner-Katzenberg wanted to put together Touchstone and new projects they approved, and just finish up quickly the work of the previous regime. Wizard, Land, Ozma, DOTWIZ, Road, EC, Patch, Rinkitink, Tiktok, Scarecrow, Lost Princess, Tin Woodman, Magic, Glinda, Royal Book, Kabumpo, Cowardly Lion, Grampa, Lost King, Hungry Tiger, Gnome King, Giant Horse, Jack Pumpkinhead, Yellow Knight, Pirates, Purple Prince, Ojo, Speedy, Wishing Horse, Captain Salt, Handy Mandy, Silver Princess, Ozoplaning, Wonder City, Scalawagons, Lucky Bucky, Magical Mimica, Shaggy Man, Hidden Valley, Merry-Go-Round. Unfortunately, I've only read through Pirates, and I can't find Purple Prince. I wish I had a fine-mint Del Rey to complete my set, though. Anybody have one? Scott P.S.: Tip asks "Are you saying my sister is a fictional character. Are you Philip Jose Farmer writing under a pseudonym?" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: DianaBoban@aol.com Subject: wizard of oz list Hi, I have been on the wizard of oz list for several months. Today, my computer ate everything that I own and kicked me off of the few mailing lists that I was on. Could you please please please send me information as to how to resubscribe to the Oz list? Thank you, Diane DianaBoban@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:37:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 > NAME Scott Andrew Hutchins > DATE OF BIRTH 1/2/76 > HOME Indianapolis, Indiana > PROFESSION Telephone Pollster/Student (Communications Theatre/Mass Media Major; Film Studies Minor) in two weeks: former Customer Service Clerk (bagger) > LEVEL OF EDUCATION entering fourth year of college in the fall > AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ probably around 2 > HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Tom Sinnickson-illustrated Wonder Book (overprotective parents denied film until a first-grader) > HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ Eric Gjovaag gave me the address > OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO IWOC, Royal Club of Oz > PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Books, mostly, also films, including, but definitely not limited to MGM. Looking for onscurities like Wonderful Land and Fantasia... 3 Help! > HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? 25 :BAUM BOOKS? 14 THOMPSON? 11 > NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYES? McGRAW? None yet > WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? How the Wizard came to Oz, Ozma Gets Really Pissed Off & Cusses and Totally Offends (Almost) Everyone in Oz, The Braided Man of Oz, The Reading Tree of Oz, Egor's Funhouse Goes to Oz, Ozma and the Wayward Wand, Return to Oz, probably others > HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? American Fairy Tales, The Surprising Adventures of the Magical Monarch of Mo and His People, Queen Zixi of Ix, The Sea Fairies (also Have Sky Island and Aunt Jane's Neices in the Red Cross (1918 revision) still unread) > HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? > none ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECT" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?)Centenniel book, two sequels, films research > MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? character portrayals/development in books and films, authorial ideas, themes expressed, towns full of weirdos > WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Ozites could age and die before Ozma ascended the throne (Nick's mother died, for instance. Warren Hollister suggests a mistake. I don't think something like that could be.), but no longer. Aging is optional, death impossible except through incineration, disintegration, or dissolution Jack Snow's "A Murder in Oz" Oz as history can be interpreted along with regular history/author's knowledge (west/East thing) The continent of Oz is somewhere on earth, undectectable to normal devices, probably in the northern Pacific. The Nonestic is so named to make outsiders believe it is fictional (Latin: non (no; not), est (is)), not because it was Baum's sly way of telling adults he did not believe it. Ozma and Polychrome are still children (albeit older children: 10-12 range). Many Ozites have seen films about Oz, and find most laughable. Ozma is not as ugly as the Octopus-books edition depicts her (actually, she's not ugly at all; unfortunately, I can never remember that bad illustrator's name. Actually his Wogglebug is nice, as is his Gump,Jack, and Nick, and his Tip is okay. The Scarecrow has an ugly pillow head.) Someone, I think it was Melody, said that "Nonentic" (cf. Neill) was a real word. What does it mean? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:35:42 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Douglas Silfen: In my "Forever in Oz," the Nimmee that married Chopfyte is the real one all right--her statement that she had forgotten the Tin Woodman and Soldier was, according to Chopfyte, "the biggest whopper she ever told." :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:11:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 (fwd) I don't think this made it into the DIGEST. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:55:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 OOPS!: Do NOT mail your responses to the questionnaire to me. I'm adding them as you post them. Yes, y'all, I still have the original poll and its responses. Those who've been posting them on the DIGEST are doing the right and logical thing. Good way to introduce yourselves to us! Robert: Glad to have another Texan on the DIGEST. Atty is at UT. I'm in Houston. So is Jim VanderNoot. Gordon's in Dallas. So is Mike Denio. Bob: Gee, I wish I could be in New Hampshire during the fall. We have no real fall colors down here. (Actually, I'd like to be in NH during the summer to take one of the writing institutes offered up there...) Saroz: A fine first of TIN WOODMAN in a fine dj could easily sell for well over $1000. It's one of the toughest 1sts. to find, other than a first of WIZARD. Most places would price any fine first in fine dj at somewhere around $1000, if it had color illos. Amazing, isn't it. Anything less than truly fine really should run hundreds less.Hard to say. My shop would sell at less than most. Herm would sell at less than I (he has no rent or salaries to pay). However, I've seen lots of Oz priced right up around the $1000 mark. Ruth: I can't recognize any of the music in question as belonging to either WOGGLEBUG or TIK-TOK, but I only know the songs Marc tracked down. Ted: Post-Baum Oz books are available through a number of sources. The Del Rey paperbacks are available through the Int'l. Wizard of Oz Club (IWOC). Hardcover reprints are available through IWOC and Books of Wonder. The older copies are available at some rare book dealers. Herm Bieber is your very best source. He's on the DIGEST, when he's home. The shop where I work is also pretty good, but my prices can't be as good as Herm's. Check the Amazon Books website for good prices on Oz reprints. As for RINKINTINK, you're quite right. Baum wrote it originally as a non-Oz book, then tacked on the Oz kind of at the last minute! Welcome to the DIGEST. Any intelligent posters are welcome...Oz is a great leveller. I'm glad you're not shy. Dave: I can't find the part of the DIGEST that AOL says I've downloaded. Not sure if this is due to my ignorance or if it's an AOL problem. Still have my Tenet account at the moment, so I'm not desperate yet. OZ KIDS: Last I heard, we'd be getting the series in '98. I'll check with Willard when he gets back from England, if no one else here knows for sure. It's doing pretty well, I hear. Too bad it's almost impossible to get the videos in Texas without special ordering. I got my five OZ KIDS videos from my daughter, who was stationed in Italy at the time! David: Public THANK YOU! for having done the Index to OZIANA. All: Please sign your posts. Just a first name is fine. Please. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:15:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 mbert: Your description of Elmo may be confusing to some. Elmo is a relatively new muppet creation. His claim to fame, so to speak, is that this past Christmas, "Tickle Me,Elmo" was the *hot* toy that every doting parent was frantically trying to obtain for demanding offspring. Kind of like the Cabbage Patch doll phenomenon, but probably shorter-lived in popularity and, IMHO, much cuter. Sweetfaced, fuzzy, cuddly, and the silly thing did laugh when tickled. You wrote:>.... Disney. Ok, the film was not a great success, but >perhaps that is because it stayed close to the plot of the book. What book? One of the problems with RTO was that it combined elements from several of the books. Its biggest problem, and yes, it had some, probably was Disney's almost total lack of enthusiasm in promoting it in the U.S, Some Golden Books, and a few premiums from people like C&H Sugar (Great puppets), but the stuff that was put out in Japan never made it here. The "Jitterbug" sequence survives, sorta, in Arlen's home films, which have been aired a number of times on T.V. Questionnaire Responses: PLEASE don't double space them. I have to do a cut-and-paste to get your responses into another file, and double-spacing is a pain in the neck to delete. Sprry is I sound grouchy about it. Book Prices: Herm, what price would you feel appropriate for a fine 1st in fine dj of TIN WOODMAN? BTW, the prices you quoted are just what I'd've expected from you. (That's a compliment, Herm.) AOL: Ozzy Log in names do NOT mean Ozzy people. I discovered this when I checkecked member profiles on a bunch of them. Some belonged to Australians. Others belonged to braggarts. Dave: I'm resending my last post, since it didn't make it into the last DIGEST. (Maybe I just sent it too late Friday night?) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:29:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Two days of the digest. I'm back after a trek through a 60-mile dust storm :-( David: According to some sources, Baum originally intended only the green area to be called "Oz", and the other four quadrants were supposed to be independent. He changed his mind before the book went to print. From the tone and conversation in _Land_, it is clear that the five regions are independent, even though the area as a whole is called the Land of Oz. Even Glinda speaks of Ozma as the heir to the throne of the Emerald City. While perusing this title, I came across something interesting. According to Baum, Jack Pumpkinhead's Pumpkin Head "did not spoil as soon as he had feared", and that he "lived with Ozma until the end of his days", clearly implying that he DID spoil and die. We find out later, of course, that this is true, in a sense. David and Steve: The Powder must also have given Victor some kind of joint mechanism in his legs to enable him to walk. Jack, as we remember, was supplied those by Tip. Ozma: I don't think anybody would question Ozma's mental and emotional maturity, no matter what her physical age, so there should be no marriage problems from that department. Ruth: It is possible, of course, that the no-aging spell has spread out all over fairyland, although there is nothing to support it. However, if anybody ever writes a story about Bud, Fluff, Evardo, etc., they are extremely likely to make them children, even if the story takes place in the present, so we may as well run with it. Of course, there's the statement in _Zixi_ that David brought up... Harry Mongold's two stories are "Button Bright" and "The Sawhorse", unless he has a third story out. Ozma and Dan: This is starting to sound like that episode of ST "Voyager" where Harry Kim fell in love with a holodeck image. In this case, Marena was real, though. She had hacked into the system and was using the image as a mask. Wherefore Art Thou, Oz? David'a arguement is one of my two main reasons for believeing that Oz cannot be physically here on Earth in the same dimension. The other is sheer quantity. In _Tok-Tok_, we learn that there is another fairyland on the opposite side of the world from Oz. Also, in _Captain Salt_, we learn of the sizeable continent of Ozamaland. We now have three large land masses that are widely separated. If one is here, then so are the others, and that's just not likely. APB on Aaron: I haven't heard anything from Aaron in while either. I'm curious to know how his book-writing is going. Ted: The IWOOC and Books of Wonder are the best places to buy the post-Baum FF. Someone can give you contact info, since I can never seem to hang on to BOW's phone number. The ending and title of _Rinkitink in Oz_ are absolutely latched on. Originally, the book was written as _King Rinkitink_ and had a different ending. Due to many factors back then, the book could only be published if it was a genuine Oz book. Baum changed the ending and the title, and we have the modern version. Your children-aging MOPPeT is similar to a theory put forth by John R. Neill, which had it that children in each family have a "stop growing" age, which seems to be between 10 and 12. The late Rob Roy McVeigh was working on making a cartoon series of the FF before his tragic death. According to such experts as Chris Dulabone, it would be extrememly expensive and time consuming. For the record, though, I must voice grave doubts on Chris's actual estimate, about a million dollars per book. Dave: I believe he was mentioning Elmo as in "Tickle me Elmo". Bar: Actually, it's been a rough week on me, too, but I'll see if I can whip up something :-) Doug: _The WOozy in Oz_ is not available in any form, since it has not been written yet. The reason I know so much about it is that in the early days of the Digest, Aaron gave away quite a lot of hints about the series (The overall name is the "Lurline's Machine" series), until he finally realized that if he gave away too much, there would be no reason to write or read them! It seems to me that death was very real prior to Ozma ascending the throne, despite objections from Chris. Of course, Baum made passing references to death even after this event. The best compromise explanation I can think of is that deathlessness began to pervade Oz slowly and really gathered steam after Ozma's ascension. Even so, there were isolated exception until several years later, when only powerful magic could destroy somebody. While nobody actually comes out and says that Oz is not on Earth (except in the non-Historically Accurate _Dinamonster_), evidence such as David has cited along with the three-continent problem that I mentioned plus the differences in the atmosphere and outer space is, I believe, sufficient to state with a fair degree of certainty that Oz is not physically on our globe, in our dimension. The parallel-dimension theory does a satisfactory job of explaining all this and also makes it easy for characters to get from here to there so often. It seems a little odd that so many Ozzy names should appear as screen names. Have you tried some of these? I'm trying to think of some minor characters. Glegg, Fumbo, Corum, Stampedro, Philador, Ervic, Isomere, Re Alla Bad, Abrog, Allibabble, Bangladore, Boq, Chopfyt, Ejabo, Faleero, Garee, Gwig, Hoochafoo, Kettywigh, Nimmie Amee, Pajonia, Palumbo, Quiberon, Umtillio, Konk, Quink, Nandywog, Opodock, Loxo, Gloma, Tazander Tazah, Gludwig, Shampoozle, Howzatagin, just to name a few. And for the really esoteric, you could try some non-FF characters. I guarantee that none of the ones in the next paragraph will be taken: Oooliphlop, Llewop, Fwiirp, Baumelaumerivik, Baumizygrynivik, Levimeyerabloch, Gwomokolottokint, Izarnhanduz. The spelling may be off on some of these. Gordon: I can recite the entire FF by author, illustrator and year of publication, but I don't care to do so now. Perhaps we can have a contest at a convention :-) David L (just how many Davids are out there, anyway?) :-) I believe that Del Rey still publishes the entire Baum 14 in paperback, but they do not have the original cover art. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 21:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.180] >According to this book, [the Shirley Temple special] >really was bad...except for Agnes Moorehead's performance as Mombi and >apparently, this role helped her to land the role of Endora in >'Bewitched.' Really?? With a cast like that it sounds great! -- I can name all the FFs! 1 - THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ 2 - THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ 3 - OZMA OF OZ 4 - DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ 5 - THE ROAD TO OZ 6 - THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ 7 - THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ 8 - TIK-TOK OF OZ 9 - THE SCARECROW OF OZ 10 - THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ 11 - RINKITINK IN OZ 12 - THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ 13 - THE MAGIC OF OZ 14 - GLINDA OF OZ ...I think this is the publication order. --- BTW, does Jim Henson Productions (Muppets, etc.) own the rights to Oz? I'm a big Muppet fan and didn't know this! Ted *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 06:59:38 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digests 8/1 & 8/2/97 Welcome to Suzanne, Ted, Rev. Bob, David L., and Bob Schroeder. Sarah: Regarding the hardest to find FF 1st edition, I'm sure the Digest experts will have the answer. However, at the Munchkin Convention this past weekend, a first, w/dust jacket, of Merry-Go-Round in Oz was described as being quite rare. It sold at the auction on Saturday for just under $300. which was considered by some to be a bargain. And speaking of the Munchkin Convention, a few personal observations. I have attended for the past four years, and this was less well attended than the previous three. It also had fewer auction items, but probably better quality items. The silent auction was only one table, where, in the past three years it was three, IIRC. The food is still very good and the people are great. Digest members Earl Abbe, Elinor & John Kennedy, Sharon & Chris Warkala, and Nathan DeHoff were there. Program highlights on Friday evening included a slide presentation "The Wonderful Women of Oz" by Barbara Kolle, and a slide & audio show by David Maxine "Victor Columbia Edison - The Early Oz Recordings". Saturday evening had a CD presentation by Christine Baum on the progress of the theme park to be built in Kansas, and a wonderful Oz 40th Birthday Party, with a beautiful cake and games galore! As always, I enjoyed! Doug: Many Digest discussions in the past couple of years have centered on inconsistancies in Baum's books. You have to realize that they were written for children, and that he didn't intend them to be a series. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 04:40:44 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Ozzy Digest Stuff Hi all, I don't know if this will interest any of you, but here are my ratings of the first 12 Oz books. I might tell you that I am 33 and never read any Oz books before some months ago. So...this might be interesting as data to plug in from an older newbie!! :-) 10 is the best. 1. THE WIZARD OF OZ................9 2. THE LAND OF OZ..................7 3. OZMA OF OZ.......................10 4. DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ.....6 5. THE ROAD TO OZ...................3 (mostly because of the scoodlers) 6. THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ...........6 7. THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ.........8 8. TIK TOK OF OZ....................4 9. THE SCARECROW OF OZ..............8 10.RINKITINK IN OZ..................5 11.THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ..........9 12.THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ............8 Anybody read The Sea Fairies and Sky Island? How are they? Are they fantasy as well? Take care! Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 07:55:55 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Grim Stuff Steve Teller says in the 8/1 Digest that I think that Steve is mistaken. Hitler liked domesticity at times, but that did not make him moral in matters relating to his person (while he was being immoral or amoral in things on a larger scale.) The immoral-on-a-personal-scale example that comes immediately to mind is the fate of the conspirators who tried to assassinate him. They were executed in a slow, excruciating manner, with the whole affair carefully filmed for Hitler's later and frequent enjoyment. A little on this subject goes a long, long ways! :-( Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:59:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 To straighten part of the Bear/Berman quarrel. I believe it was I (not Bear) who asked the original question: "What sort of person would steal a little child's dog?" Ruth: Harry Mongold did try to resurrect some of the neglected characters in his books, but he wrote: BUTTON BRIGHT IN OZ and THE SAWHORSE OF OZ (I'm never sure about the prepositions), but not THE WOOZY IN OZ. Scott O. asked about the Aberdeen Festival and the contraversy about Baum's editorials. There was a petition on the web demanding that the Aberdeen Festival not ignore the fact that Baum, in THE ABERDEEN SATURDAY PIONEER wrote two editorials seemingly recommending the extermination of the Indians. The Aberdeen Festival *has* risen to the challenge and there will be presentations concerning these editorials and one of the speakers is a native American. Bear asked if I meant that "personal morality should not be a consideration in the selection of leaders?" I would reply that it can be a consideration, but I would not wantit to be a deciding factor. David Hulan's quote from the Cleveland/Blaine election seems appropos. When I suggested that Adolf Hitler was personally a moral person, I meant that he was, as far as we know, not quilty of sexual misconduct, sexual harrassment, and personal theft. He was a cleanness freak. He was also the cause of more misery than anyone else in the twentieth century (and maybe any other century) with the possible exception of Joseph Stalin. Oz as a TV series: There was a 54(?) part television series from CINAR based (rather loosely) on WIZARD, LAND, OZMA, and EMERALD CITY. It was shown on HBO a feqw years ago. Four feature length video-tapes were released based on this series. They ran about 90 minutes each. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:45:19 -0700 From: Roberta Ling Subject: Digest Member Survey Cc: aglib@pacbell.com I'm a long-time Oz fan returning to the fold after many years absence. Name: Roberta Ling DOB: 9/13/40 Residence: Palo Alto, CA Profession: medical librarian Level of ed.: MA, MLS Age of discovery: 8 How discovered: read my uncle's copy of Ozoplaning with the Wizard of OZ How discovered Digest: Dave's home page Primary Oz interests: IWOC, Royal Club of OZ How many FF books read: all Non-FF books: none Non-Baum books: 3 or 4 Non-Thompson books: none Current Oz projects: Re-reading all FF books; making costume for next Winkie convention Main Ozzy area of concentration: World of Baum-Neill only. MOPPETS: none at this time This is a great discussion group! ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 17:05:42 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Sender: BARLOW NATE Dick: > However, at the Munchkin Convention this past weekend, a first, w/dust jacket, of > Merry-Go-Round in Oz was described as being quite rare. It sold at the auction on Saturday > for just under $300. which was considered by some to be a bargain. ... > As always, I enjoyed! As purchaser of that Merry-Go-Round, I must mention that it did not have the dust jacket. It was, however, signed by both Eloise Jarvis and Lauren Lynn McGraw. And as chairperson of the convention, I am very glad that you enjoyed the weekend. I am indebted to countless people for all their time and help, both during the weekend and throughout the past year. I cannot thank them enough. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:38:20 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 David: It seems to me normal physical principals work in Oz unless there is some sort of magic in effect, but you've read more of the books than I have. Tyler: My book Nikidik in Oz has Fluff in her early twenties and married to the prince of a country where no aging occurs. It is set in the present day, and Bud is an old man, and goes by Timothy, while his older sister is much younger (physically) than he is. Ted: Nice try, the FF is "Famous Forty", not "Famous Fourteen" :-) The Land of Oz also starred Charles Boaz as The Colonel, Mari Lynn as Jellia Jamb, Norman Leavitt as The Repairman (?!), William Keene as the Royal Army, and Lou Merrill as the Court Doctor. Nikidik became Lord Nikidik, a replacement for Jinjur. Unfortunately, I've never seen this. This is probably the fourth or fifth time I have asked, but what does the Repairman have to do with iut? I know some of you have seen this at the convention! Henson Productions, which is now a division of Disney (and has been since just before Jim died), does not own the rights to the Oz books. They are public domain through book fifteen, as well as Jack Snow's books. Thompson's books are owned by her estate except for her last four and two that were copyrighted to the publisher (a loophole making club publication of Purple Prince difficult). Neill's books are copyrighted; I'm not sure to whom, and Mcraw and Cosgrove's books are copyrighted to their authors. Jane: I found "Billy Bumble in Oz" last night. I couldn't remember if I had read this until I started to re-read it. Although I only knew Bill Eubank from his art, I loved this story as much the second time as I did the first. It seemed worthy of publication in any anthology. That was an especially good year for _Oziana_ all in all. I also read "The Merchant of Oz" last night. Perfect timing, since I haven't re-read Road yet. I finally got through Genesis last night, too, and read the first four chapters of Exodus. (Someone at church heard that I didn't have a Bible, when in fact I just didn't have my own personal Bible, but now that I have one, I started to read it from the beginning.) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:42:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Dave: "Dan shall be a snake by the roadside, a viper along the path, that bites the horse's heels so that its rider falls backward." Genesis 49:17 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 18:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest If I didn't know any better, considering the fact that all lovers of things Ozzy are basically nice people who would never do such a thing, I might think that you were all insulting me. I do not have to prove that I have read all of Baum's books. I have. Everything that was ever published up to the year 1990, at which point my collection was burglarized and my family and I moved here. Yes, even stuff like The Uplift of Lucifer and Thompson's advertising pamphlets. I do admit that I read stuff like Schuyler Staunton's books from microfiche printouts, but I HAVE read all of them. But then again, I shouldn't take offense, because none of you would actually think to insult someone, being that you're all lovers of things Ozzy.... Right? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 18:58:28 -0400 From: "Gessel, Michael" Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 FROM: Michael Gessel Regarding Richard Randolph's comments on which is the hardest books of the Oz series to find in first edition. That is a question I have sometimes wondered. I have been trying to chase down Oz books for about 30 years and I noticed that some of the books are definitely harder to find than others. For example, first editions of the Wizard, though now much pricier than my budget, turn up a lot in dealers' shows and catalogs. I see first editions of Ozma frequently. (Or at least, I used to.) Emerald City, also, I've found a lot in antique shows or bookstores. On the other hand, I usually don't see the later Baum books starting with Scarecrow. For some reason, I have found very few copies of Rinkitink, Lost Princess, or Magic in first edition. I wonder what is the experience is of other Digest readers who have been long-time searchers? > ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: rac8.wam.umd.edu: china owned process doing -bs Just out of curiosity, did anyone on the list ever go to The Land of Oz amusement Park in the mountains of North Carolina? It was one of my favorite places as a child. christine gray ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:19:34, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Thank you all for all the warm receptions and welcomes to the digest. The discussions are excellent. With all the talk of death and destruction, I wonder why the Tinman had to have new tin accessories put on. Why weren't his original limbs just re attached? Are they not attached now to Chopfyt? Does Chopfyt now have the Tinman's original heart? Just a thought...... I have played the music on the dedication page of "Road" and it sounds very familiar to me. I am looking into other piano players for more input. Has anyone discovered what it is yet? Magic (and imagination) can be used to obscure places such as Oz. Cast my vote for Oz being somewhere close to us all. Robin O.: You may come to New Hampshire at any time, after all this is God's country. If you come for a visit to this great state, please e-mail me ahead of time. There is nothing prettier than N.H. in the fall. By the way, "Oziana" is outstanding. I am recognizing a lot of names from the digest, and from the Oz clubs. I would love to attend a convention someday to meet everyone. ---Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:28:45 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Craig: I sympathize with your inability to get to Munchkins. I felt the same way when I had to miss Winkies last year because of our move to Chicago (though at least I was able to make Ozmopolitan). Bob S.: Bear is about 5 years older than you are, which isn't that much. And a year older than I am. Of course, I get called "liberal" all the time when I don't consider myself all that liberal by most standards; anywhere else in the developed world I'd be considered center-right. Bob C.: Glad to hear you enjoyed _Glass Cat_. It's my only published book so far, though I hope to have a couple more within the next year or two. _Ozma_, _Tik-Tok_, and _Scarecrow_ didn't have much more to do with Oz than _Rinkitink_ did; the only major difference is that the first three used characters from earlier Oz books and _Rinkitink_ didn't. Scott: I'd have to read your entry to know whether I'd like it or not. As I've said, some of my favorite non-Baum Oz books, like _Ojo_ and _Speedy_ and _Silver Princess_ (and _Disenchanted Princess_, for that matter) didn't have a serious problem set at the beginning that the protagonist succeeded in solving by the end. It's only with Baum that I find that his best books have that characteristic - and really, only his Oz books, because I regard _Sky Island_ as one of his two best books and the only quest there is for Trot, Cap'n Bill, and Button-Bright to recover the magic umbrella so they can get home. I said that the non-FF books by Baum, Thompson, Neill, et. al. (not Snow, who didn't write a non-FF Oz book) should be considered apocryphal. And I'll stretch that to say that I'm willing to consider Baum's "Little Wizard Stories" canonical, though not "Queer Visitors" and "The Woggle-bug Book" (and in fact I consider the latter two not apocryphal but heretical). I consider all of the FF canonical (although bringing Neill in presents some major problems). A lot depends on how you define the term "witch". Wiccans want to try to reserve the term for the predecessors of their own religion, which is descended (at least in their minds, though I'm not sure how good their evidence is) from paganism, not Satanism. But there _were_ Satanists - since the 19th century, at least - who also called themselves "witches". Whether there was a Satanic "witch-cult" in medieval times is something that I doubt anyone can establish conclusively today, unless somebody invents a time-viewer. There are certainly bookstores that put the Del Rey Oz books in the children's or YA sections, but most bookstores put them with the SF because Del Rey is the SF arm of Ballantine (IIRC). I usually mention this because I assume anyone who's looked for Oz books has checked the children's section of their bookstores; if they've failed, I point them to the SF section as a place where they might not have looked. As in my comment to Bear yesterday, I wonder how much your hourly wage would be decreased if there weren't a union where you work? Usually it's the case that the difference in pay between union and non-union workers is more than the dues. If an IE has strong thematic significance then it's not Irrelevant. And many times IEs are among the best parts of a book - Utensia is a classic IE (can you think of a thematic significance it has?), but it's the best thing in the whole Oz section of _Emerald City_. Still, they often just delay the action of the story to no good purpose. _Lost Princess_ is my favorite Baum Oz book, but I'd have liked it even better if he'd either left Thi out or given it some significance. (The travelers don't even get a meal out of it.) My assessment of Thompson's Oz as Ptolemaic is based on the presence of stars and planets within the atmosphere - as referred to in _Cowardly Lion_, _Hungry Tiger_, _Silver Princess_, and _Ozoplaning_ at least, possibly elsewhere. This certainly doesn't sound like our universe. Without producers to provide the money, directors wouldn't have a chance to show their artistic merits. It's sort of like publishers and authors... Robin: Chicagoland isn't New Hampshire, but the fall colors here are a definite plus for someone who's lived in Southern California the previous 30-odd (some of them _very_ odd) years. You should be able to find the part of the Digest that AOL says you've downloaded in the "Online Downloads" (or maybe just "Downloads") subfolder of the AOL folder (it's "AOL30" on my Wintel machine, but may be something else on yours), probably with the filename "ozzydige.txt" or "ozzydige.doc". This is if you just used the defaults after clicking "Download Now". Although if you don't give new filenames then each time you download you'll overwrite the previous Digest download and lose it. When you click "Download now" you should get a dialog box that gives you a choice of where you want the downloaded file stored and what you want it named; I suggest you create a folder somewhere to store downloaded Digests and name the file "ozdi0801.txt" or whatever the date is. (I put this on the Digest rather than E-mailing you privately because it may be useful to other AOL users.) You can get the "Oz Kids" videos from BoW. (At least, you can get the first five. I've ordered the rest but they're back-ordered at present.) Of course, I guess that's "special ordering". While _Return to Oz_ had its flaws, I thought it came closer to the spirit of the books than the MGM movie did. I've watched it half a dozen times on video (besides seeing it once on the big screen) and think it stands up very well. Tyler: The Powder of Life obviously affects the flexibility of the joints of those it brings to life. The Sawhorse had no more joints than Victor did, nor did Bungle. >Wherefore Art Thou, Oz? Sorry, but you pushed one of my pet buttons there. "Wherefore" means "why," not "where", and the classic quotation is "Wherefore art thou Romeo?", meaning "Why are you a stinking Montague?", not "Where are you, Romeo?" Actually, "The Woozy of Oz" has been written and was submitted to Tor a year or so ago and rejected. I don't know if it's been submitted elsewhere, revised, or anything like that. But I have a first-draft copy of it somewhere on my hard drive. (At that stage it definitely needed work, but I understand Aaron and Barry revised it extensively between that version and the one they submitted.) As we have said before, Chris D. has an encyclopedic knowledge of Oz, but his theories based on that knowledge frequently don't hold water, at least for me. >David L (just how many Davids are out there, anyway?) :-) Lots. David is one of those names that's been in the top 25-30 for popularity for generations. It's never been a vogue name (like Kevin in the early '60s, or Jason in the late '60s), but it's always had a fair level of popularity, like John and James and William and Robert. Ted: Those were the Baum Oz books. The FF include the rest of the Famous Forty, so you have another 26 to go. ;-) And _Rinkitink_ was published before _Lost Princess_. Dick: Sounds as if the Munchkin Convention was fun, even if it was smaller than usual. I really need to try to get to that con one of these years. >From the Oz-as-literature point of view you're perfectly correct - Baum didn't intend the books to be a series (at least through the first several) and didn't worry at all about consistency. Thompson and later writers knew it was a series, but still didn't worry about consistency. But that doesn't keep it from being fun to try to dream up explanations, from the Oz-as-history point of view, of why those contradictions exist. Douglas: I don't seriously disagree with your ratings of the first 12 books, though I'd rate _Rinkitink_ higher and _Dotwiz_ and _Tin Woodman_ lower than you do by a significant enough factor that I'd have to say we disagree on their merits. For the others, your ratings are close enough to mine that there's no important disagreement. _The Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ are indeed both fantasies, featuring Trot and Cap'n Bill before they came to Oz in _Scarecrow_. _Sea Fairies_ is rather dull through its first half for an adult reader, though I liked it as a child and it's the only Oz-related book that my daughter liked at all when she was a child. The second half is excellent. _Sky Island_ is roughly tied with _Lost Princess_ as my favorite Baum book of all, and I've heard that it was Baum's own personal favorite of his books. Both books are definitely worth reading, and are available in quite nice PB versions from BoW (or more directly if you have a local Borders). (Or if you want hardcovers you can get them from BoW directly, though I don't think Borders carries those.) Steve: I'd have to add Mao as someone in the same ballpark as Hitler and Stalin for causing misery in the 20th century. He probably would take the prize for causing more misery to more people, but that's because he ruled more people in the first place; he probably wasn't quite as bad in proportion to the population he was ruling. (On the other hand, if you take it in proportion to the population ruled, Pol Pot or Idi Amin might take the prize...) Roberta: Welcome to the Digest! (And back to the fold.) I hope to meet you in person at Winkie next year. ROAD: One thing I've mildly wondered about: my atlas, at least, doesn't reveal any "Butterfield" in Kansas. On the other hand, although there's no community of "Butterfield" that it goes through today, "Butterfield Road" is one of the main east-west drags in the western suburbs of Chicago, where I believe Baum was still living at the time. (If he'd left for California, it wasn't long before. I know his introduction was from Coronado, but he vacationed there for a few years before he moved, IIRC.) I wonder if anyone knows whether (a) "the road to Butterfield" might have been based on "Butterfield Road", and (b) whether there really was a community of Butterfield that Butterfield Road went to (most named "Road"s around here do go to, or at least toward, the communities they're named for) back around 1910? This would, of course, have been Way Out In The Country in those days, 35 miles or so from the Loop. But Baum might have motored out this way on Sunday afternoon drives and picked up on the name... I've been rather prolix today, but I can't really promise to be less so tomorrow, I'm afraid.